I am very surprised that the poll somehow shows support for such a distructive, expensive, offensive concept. A elevated toll road will take many years to build and complete and would shut down a vibrant channel of commerce that is one of the few positive sectors in the Birmingham area that is actually growing.
The neighborhoods of Graystone, Highland Lakes, Meadowbrook, Eagle Point, and Inverness would suffer and quickly change from a very comfortable place to live, to a dirty, crime-ridden, dangerous, noisy, eye sore. After several years of orange barrels, smoke, tar and gravel many of the merchants that make living in this corridor a nice option, would be forced to close and leave because there businesses would decline which would very negatively transform the community. Plus the maintenace to keep the toll bridge safe would force the tolls to be active for many decades.
If the need to sell realestate south of Double Oak Mt is that important why build a toll bridge and stop it at I-459? Possibly because the folks holding the property that would benefit know the folks north of I-459. The only people who would support such a lame econimic effort would be developers now holding real estate well south that hope can capitalize by lurring folks to purchase new homes with the idea that a double deck expressway will allow easy access north. Do we really need 2,000 more homes south of Chelsea? Somehow I suspect parties with profit agendas have voted far more than once, so maybe the polls are not that accurate.
Also like some others have claimed, much of the hectic rush hour traffic is less during the summer months and regardless of a toll bridge or not, the traffic would still bottle neck at Rocky Bridge. Our neighbors to the north such as Cahaba Heights, Homewood and Mt. Brook have already done a far better job of fighting off ALDOT and pushed the project south of I-459. I believe originally the project started as a connection to the Red Mountain expressway but that project slid south when well financed opposition surfaced. If there is a dome and a entertainment center finally established downtown wouldn't a toll road need to be constructed that would connect downtown to Chelsea, which was the original intent?
This is a bad incomplete plan and the money and funding could be put to better use by supporting a rework of the sewer debt obligation or helping the downtown area back to being a leading southern city or impacting the over all congestion from downtown to the south. I like where I live but if this project lands at my door, I am gone like a cool breeze during the summertime and will not look back.
new resident - 14 years ago
I just recently moved to Birmingham from Chicago and now live in the Inverness area (big mistake). 280 has the worst traffic I've ever seen. I've never seen a road that is congested for miles on a Saturday morning!!!! Something needs to be done immediately to bring this city into the 21st century. The city planning in Birmingham and the surrounding areas is out of date and Birmingham will never be a popular place to work and live if something isn't done.
Lucy - 14 years ago
We'll be moving out of the area if the DOT plan is executed.
concerned - 14 years ago
Have the 60% who are for the DOT plan even reviewed the plan? Have they reviewed the alternative? How can you possibly be for the DOT plan? Why are we letting people who don't even live in the area make decisions on our roads? And why is the DOT so dead-set on spending 3 times the amount of money for the same congestion relieving result the Rethink280 plan has presented? Not to mention the detriment of the DOT plan to the local business owners, residential property values, environment, and aesthetics? What does the DOT have against the Rethink280 plan? What is the DOTs agenda that is causing them to stand their ground for a more costly and more destructive solution than to adopt a solution that the local citizens took the time and effort to solicit and develop? The DOT likes to complain that the people are never satisfied with the plans that are proposed. So why doesn't the DOT adopt the plan that the people have proposed? This is an easy solution. I don't know why the DOT is being so stubborn. Not to mention that the Rethink280 plan can be implemented in stages as funding and revenues permit, WITHOUT dropping $900M with the pipe dream that people will pay the exorbitant tolls that will be necessary just to service the debt on the initial expenditure. If you increase accessibility to local business areas and decrease the headaches of congestion at the same time, local tax revenues will increase based on the fact that business owners will WANT to be located in that area for the exposure and accessibility. Has the DOT figured in to their toll projections how much of the local tax base will be lost when businesses are bypassed by overhead travelers and they lose their 'line of sight' advertisement value? Has the DOT considered the loss in residential property tax values when people begin to relocate because they do not want the eyesore nor the noise nor the pollution of an overhead highway in their backyard? Property values will plummet as the local residents create a mass exodus from local neighborhoods in search of a more pleasing area to raise families. While on the other hand, if you increase accessibility without negatively affecting the surrounding area, more people will relocate INTO the area and residential property values will climb. And as for the people who live over the mountain, either solution meets your needs of relieving congestion and decreasing commute times. So why not go with the solution that is more pleasing to the local business owners and residents? It is a win/win situation. And with the Rethink280 plan there can still be provisions for light rail/mass transit/HOV lines to be implemented in the future. We will not be locked into a single costly solution. I don't know why everything has to be a war with the DOT. They created a solution, it was rejected by the people, they complained, the people countered with a better solution. The only step left is for the DOT to accept the countered solution. The only reason for the DOT not to accept the Rethink280 solution is if they have some alternate agenda or incentive that is driving them in the other direction. Both solutions may relieve overall congestion, but only one will POSITIVELY impact the local community. Please speak up and convince the DOT that adopting the Rethink280 solution is the answer.
Jim Long - 14 years ago
The Rethink280 plan is far superior! Traffic engineering, though important, is not rocket science. It is more akin to plumbing that any other discipline. The variables are primarily space in the pipeline and amount of flow through the pipeline, which are in turn determined or affected by inflow, outflow, flow control devices, predictable and unpredictable impediments to flow.
The current congestion is only partly related to the number of vehicles. It is largely caused by impediments (traffic lights, left turns at all intersections, and direct access to and from every business). The Rethink280 plan looks like a reasonable approach to address the major issues at significantly less cost. It is similar to the use of frontage roads for local traffic in relation to a limited-access freeway.
The one thing that should be added to the plan is an aggressive accident management program. The current confusion of jurisdictions and lack of traffic management skills on the part of police and EMS personnel create chaos on the occasion of even the smallest accident.
C.Bell - 14 years ago
It's time to bring B'ham into the 21st century. If anything is done I would hope it would include a light rail system for all of the B'ham area. Hwy 280 is not the only road with major congestion. Let's do something positive!
Carol Hovanec - 14 years ago
I lived in the New York metropolitan area for a number of years, and saw what can happen with these overhead roads, which are a disaster!!!! They are very dangerous. When fuel is involved, they become a hell on earth. They destroy the surrounding neighborhoods, closing businesses and lowering property values. They increase noise and air pollution -- and they encourage crime and homelessness. Those favoring this plan need to consider new roads in areas to the east of 280, where there is room to build them without ruining all the adjacent communities to the present 280.
Oliver C. Graham - 14 years ago
I live in 280 area and believe very strongly that we should let our hired, trained, public servants at DOT resolve the taffic problems on 280 for the benefit of current and future residents and businesses considering commercial and residential developments along the corridor. Those who are "hung up" on mass transit apparently don't pay attention to the busses in our area now. Rarely are there more than two or three riders on any bus. Our area is geared to the auto for making calls on customers during working hours as well as our usual varied working hours all over the area, not just downtown. This "re-thinking" has been going on for the last 6/8 years while those of us who live on 280 suffer. Enough! The cluless, shallow, do gooders should dissapear from the scene and let those who are hired to do a job, do the job. The objective is, as stated in your newspaper, "alleviate congestion on highway U.S. 280".
Jim Talbert - 14 years ago
This is the only chance for metro Birmingham to start a light rail system. It will alleviate some of the 280 congestion but in addition will make light rail possible for other routes which could never justify beginning such a system. Let's look past the end of our nose for a change. I realize that is a radical thought for Birmingham but...
C. Straight - 14 years ago
Clearly the 70% who think the ALDOT plan is the answer don't live between I-459 to Eagle Point Pkwy. I can't imagine having to pay a toll every time I want to go get gas or go to Wal-Mart. People will begin drivng through subdivisions to avoid the road, creating a new problem for residents. Carpool, go to work early or late, combine errands...but don't throw good money after bad to try to solve this problem!
Sammie Howell - 14 years ago
please no elevated highway
C Allen - 14 years ago
Have your engineers checked out an access lanes on each side of 280 with limited turns off of 280. It worked on Peachtree Industrial Blvd in ATL, GA.
Would have to buy some property, but would be less expense than an overpass. Also an HOV lane during rush hours might be an option until you find a solution.
Eric Simons - 14 years ago
North Shelby commuters won't ride a bus downtown. Fix 280 now!
Allie Maye - 14 years ago
PS. What about an H.O.V. lane during rush hours to encourage carpooling?
Allie Maye - 14 years ago
I'd like to see some sort of mass-transit operation put in place first before any money is spent on expansion. Place a parking area at the corner of 119 and 280 and bus all the way to downtown with key stops along the way. The busses need to be on 30 minute increments so commuters can effectively plan their day around using the system. Invest in nice busses and an efficient system first!
I am very surprised that the poll somehow shows support for such a distructive, expensive, offensive concept. A elevated toll road will take many years to build and complete and would shut down a vibrant channel of commerce that is one of the few positive sectors in the Birmingham area that is actually growing.
The neighborhoods of Graystone, Highland Lakes, Meadowbrook, Eagle Point, and Inverness would suffer and quickly change from a very comfortable place to live, to a dirty, crime-ridden, dangerous, noisy, eye sore. After several years of orange barrels, smoke, tar and gravel many of the merchants that make living in this corridor a nice option, would be forced to close and leave because there businesses would decline which would very negatively transform the community. Plus the maintenace to keep the toll bridge safe would force the tolls to be active for many decades.
If the need to sell realestate south of Double Oak Mt is that important why build a toll bridge and stop it at I-459? Possibly because the folks holding the property that would benefit know the folks north of I-459. The only people who would support such a lame econimic effort would be developers now holding real estate well south that hope can capitalize by lurring folks to purchase new homes with the idea that a double deck expressway will allow easy access north. Do we really need 2,000 more homes south of Chelsea? Somehow I suspect parties with profit agendas have voted far more than once, so maybe the polls are not that accurate.
Also like some others have claimed, much of the hectic rush hour traffic is less during the summer months and regardless of a toll bridge or not, the traffic would still bottle neck at Rocky Bridge. Our neighbors to the north such as Cahaba Heights, Homewood and Mt. Brook have already done a far better job of fighting off ALDOT and pushed the project south of I-459. I believe originally the project started as a connection to the Red Mountain expressway but that project slid south when well financed opposition surfaced. If there is a dome and a entertainment center finally established downtown wouldn't a toll road need to be constructed that would connect downtown to Chelsea, which was the original intent?
This is a bad incomplete plan and the money and funding could be put to better use by supporting a rework of the sewer debt obligation or helping the downtown area back to being a leading southern city or impacting the over all congestion from downtown to the south. I like where I live but if this project lands at my door, I am gone like a cool breeze during the summertime and will not look back.
I just recently moved to Birmingham from Chicago and now live in the Inverness area (big mistake). 280 has the worst traffic I've ever seen. I've never seen a road that is congested for miles on a Saturday morning!!!! Something needs to be done immediately to bring this city into the 21st century. The city planning in Birmingham and the surrounding areas is out of date and Birmingham will never be a popular place to work and live if something isn't done.
We'll be moving out of the area if the DOT plan is executed.
Have the 60% who are for the DOT plan even reviewed the plan? Have they reviewed the alternative? How can you possibly be for the DOT plan? Why are we letting people who don't even live in the area make decisions on our roads? And why is the DOT so dead-set on spending 3 times the amount of money for the same congestion relieving result the Rethink280 plan has presented? Not to mention the detriment of the DOT plan to the local business owners, residential property values, environment, and aesthetics? What does the DOT have against the Rethink280 plan? What is the DOTs agenda that is causing them to stand their ground for a more costly and more destructive solution than to adopt a solution that the local citizens took the time and effort to solicit and develop? The DOT likes to complain that the people are never satisfied with the plans that are proposed. So why doesn't the DOT adopt the plan that the people have proposed? This is an easy solution. I don't know why the DOT is being so stubborn. Not to mention that the Rethink280 plan can be implemented in stages as funding and revenues permit, WITHOUT dropping $900M with the pipe dream that people will pay the exorbitant tolls that will be necessary just to service the debt on the initial expenditure. If you increase accessibility to local business areas and decrease the headaches of congestion at the same time, local tax revenues will increase based on the fact that business owners will WANT to be located in that area for the exposure and accessibility. Has the DOT figured in to their toll projections how much of the local tax base will be lost when businesses are bypassed by overhead travelers and they lose their 'line of sight' advertisement value? Has the DOT considered the loss in residential property tax values when people begin to relocate because they do not want the eyesore nor the noise nor the pollution of an overhead highway in their backyard? Property values will plummet as the local residents create a mass exodus from local neighborhoods in search of a more pleasing area to raise families. While on the other hand, if you increase accessibility without negatively affecting the surrounding area, more people will relocate INTO the area and residential property values will climb. And as for the people who live over the mountain, either solution meets your needs of relieving congestion and decreasing commute times. So why not go with the solution that is more pleasing to the local business owners and residents? It is a win/win situation. And with the Rethink280 plan there can still be provisions for light rail/mass transit/HOV lines to be implemented in the future. We will not be locked into a single costly solution. I don't know why everything has to be a war with the DOT. They created a solution, it was rejected by the people, they complained, the people countered with a better solution. The only step left is for the DOT to accept the countered solution. The only reason for the DOT not to accept the Rethink280 solution is if they have some alternate agenda or incentive that is driving them in the other direction. Both solutions may relieve overall congestion, but only one will POSITIVELY impact the local community. Please speak up and convince the DOT that adopting the Rethink280 solution is the answer.
The Rethink280 plan is far superior! Traffic engineering, though important, is not rocket science. It is more akin to plumbing that any other discipline. The variables are primarily space in the pipeline and amount of flow through the pipeline, which are in turn determined or affected by inflow, outflow, flow control devices, predictable and unpredictable impediments to flow.
The current congestion is only partly related to the number of vehicles. It is largely caused by impediments (traffic lights, left turns at all intersections, and direct access to and from every business). The Rethink280 plan looks like a reasonable approach to address the major issues at significantly less cost. It is similar to the use of frontage roads for local traffic in relation to a limited-access freeway.
The one thing that should be added to the plan is an aggressive accident management program. The current confusion of jurisdictions and lack of traffic management skills on the part of police and EMS personnel create chaos on the occasion of even the smallest accident.
It's time to bring B'ham into the 21st century. If anything is done I would hope it would include a light rail system for all of the B'ham area. Hwy 280 is not the only road with major congestion. Let's do something positive!
I lived in the New York metropolitan area for a number of years, and saw what can happen with these overhead roads, which are a disaster!!!! They are very dangerous. When fuel is involved, they become a hell on earth. They destroy the surrounding neighborhoods, closing businesses and lowering property values. They increase noise and air pollution -- and they encourage crime and homelessness. Those favoring this plan need to consider new roads in areas to the east of 280, where there is room to build them without ruining all the adjacent communities to the present 280.
I live in 280 area and believe very strongly that we should let our hired, trained, public servants at DOT resolve the taffic problems on 280 for the benefit of current and future residents and businesses considering commercial and residential developments along the corridor. Those who are "hung up" on mass transit apparently don't pay attention to the busses in our area now. Rarely are there more than two or three riders on any bus. Our area is geared to the auto for making calls on customers during working hours as well as our usual varied working hours all over the area, not just downtown. This "re-thinking" has been going on for the last 6/8 years while those of us who live on 280 suffer. Enough! The cluless, shallow, do gooders should dissapear from the scene and let those who are hired to do a job, do the job. The objective is, as stated in your newspaper, "alleviate congestion on highway U.S. 280".
This is the only chance for metro Birmingham to start a light rail system. It will alleviate some of the 280 congestion but in addition will make light rail possible for other routes which could never justify beginning such a system. Let's look past the end of our nose for a change. I realize that is a radical thought for Birmingham but...
Clearly the 70% who think the ALDOT plan is the answer don't live between I-459 to Eagle Point Pkwy. I can't imagine having to pay a toll every time I want to go get gas or go to Wal-Mart. People will begin drivng through subdivisions to avoid the road, creating a new problem for residents. Carpool, go to work early or late, combine errands...but don't throw good money after bad to try to solve this problem!
please no elevated highway
Have your engineers checked out an access lanes on each side of 280 with limited turns off of 280. It worked on Peachtree Industrial Blvd in ATL, GA.
Would have to buy some property, but would be less expense than an overpass. Also an HOV lane during rush hours might be an option until you find a solution.
North Shelby commuters won't ride a bus downtown. Fix 280 now!
PS. What about an H.O.V. lane during rush hours to encourage carpooling?
I'd like to see some sort of mass-transit operation put in place first before any money is spent on expansion. Place a parking area at the corner of 119 and 280 and bus all the way to downtown with key stops along the way. The busses need to be on 30 minute increments so commuters can effectively plan their day around using the system. Invest in nice busses and an efficient system first!