Sometimes rabid Republicans claim that the health care bill is just part of some "liberal" plan is to bring down the rich and, as then presidential candidate Barack Obama said to Joe the Plumber, "spread the wealth around." Other times they throw out these flippant taunts like "you can't make the poor rich by making the rich poor"--rhetorically adding, "I never got a job from a poor person." As true as that might be, I think it's a bunch of bunk. I mean, where do these people get off? Clearly the Obama administration is not trying to make the rich poor, and the health care bill is not a part of any such attempt. Socialism is not about bringing down the rich--it's about leveling the playing field, you conservative idiots--in practical terms it's about bringing down everyone (except of course those in the government--they need to be rich) so there is not a class system. We can't all be Bill Gates after all--and because we can't, it's only right that nobody should (and don't give me that--"Yeah, but he employs thousands of people and gives billions to charitable causes: that's a smokescreen and you know it). Don't worry so much--you all listen to Glenn Beck too much. Where is your faith? Don't you see that by making sure nobody does without the necessities of life, the government will take care of all of us. And don't give me that "socialism has never worked before--even in formerly wealthy countries" junk; we will be the exception. I mean, we know so much more now than when it's been tried before. Why wouldn't we be able to take away individuals' incentive to get ahead by leveling the playing field without losing any productivity at all? You're just trying to use the past and psychology to make your point seem more credible. What you need to do is forget for a minute about history and the understanding of human behavior we've acquired over the past hundred years and have some faith that we'll be able to manage it. Really. Please stop worrying! Politicians are not there to try to get power for themselves and their parties, they are here to help us. Don't you trust them?
daniel - 14 years ago
ok so im canadian
all i have to say is thank god now you americans will quit trying to jump our borders and abuse our healthcare system for free
we get paid more per hour ( canadian standard is 9.5$/hr min ) we pay higher taxes, our quality of life is higher, and our higher education is 1/10 of the american systems cost
all due to the fact that we benefit from a socialist system,
yes i pay about 30 % of my income in taxes, but when i fall sick i dont have to try to figure out how to be seen by a neighboring countries free doctors...
ps i was hospitalized last summer after an auto accident, want to know what it cost me... 0$
my wife had a kid last month guess what it cost... 0$
and my wife has a year of maternity leave and i have 10 weeks paternity leave
so keep fighting the good fight against socialism, see what good it does for you
just stay the hell out of our country when you need healthcare
APos28 - 14 years ago
my main concern is for the quality of care people will be receiving. dr's who are treating medicare patients are already underfunded for the amount of care they provide for these clients. with the budget cuts for medicare physicians are forced to drop their clients and or go non participating to medicare clients (nephrologits for example for patients who have undergone kidney transplants) leaving these mainly elderly and debilitated patients to deal with their own claims. with a mass influx of government run insurance where are all of us going to turn for care? are we going to receive the same quality of treatment? how will this affect the cost of health care in the long run? i am a part time worker and full time student having problems finding health care covereage due to my situation and pre-existing conditions, and i agree health care was over due for a much needed reform, but creating new government run health plans when there are others that are failing miserably and there is simply no money to fund any of these is simply irresponsible.
Eira - 14 years ago
I really can't see why people are complaining about this reform.. It's not the best one, but it's a good step in the right direction.
I live in sweden where we've had this kind of health care system for ages (and don't come saying I don't know anything about the US now. I've got a lot of family there..) and it works awesome. We're a highly developed country with a good welfare and high taxes, but the social security and healthcare programs are great! If you need to change a heart? Cost you about 20$!! The rest is financed via taxes, no matter who you are. You just pay a minor % of the cost it would otherwise cost you to get a new heart, lounges etc. Same with the day to day health care, and you always get time for a doctors visit the same day as you get sick. For me that has a chronic diseases in form of MS, this is the best thing ever!
My meds would cost me thousands of dollars, not to mention the times I need to go to the hospital for treatment etc, which I would never be able to afford in the US. Insurance or not. I work as much as I can, I pay my taxes and in return I get a good safety net that will make sure that when I'm sick and can't work, I won't be forced away from my home and family. And that I will get the treatment I need to live a life where I can make use of myself both in work and in my social life. They've even payed for my dog to get the education he needs to help me out in my life so that I can live a normal life with work, friends and family.
So no, I really can't see why people are against this. Social democracy isn't the end of the world you know
Einherjar Saint Ereo - 14 years ago
Government needs to really get their sticky fingers out of...well, everything that has to do with profiting. The good intentions bill is just another piece of pavement on our road to "hell."
So many new rules that shall be so easily broken.
krachyon - 14 years ago
Guys, where I come from the bill you passed now would not be considered socialism in the slightest but rather as a neo-conservative coup de grace. And as far as I remember we now live in the (capitalist) Federal Republic as opposed to the (socialist) GDR. If you still confuse the Soviet Union with democratic socialism or even with moderate regulation within a fundamentally capitalist system, get a fucking education.
Livvy - 14 years ago
I think that a lot of health care could be fixed if instead of going at it from this direction, making taxes go up, everyone has to get it whether they can afford it or not, they went at it from a different angle and put caps on how much drug companies could charge for their medications, and add a little something that doesn't really do anything to a drug so they can call it a new formula and keep generic forms from becoming available. It would help if they had people whose job it was to keep checking up on these doctors, clinics, and other 'health care providers' to stop a lot of this fraudulent abuse of of programs like Medicare by charging for services and supplies that were never actually received by a patient. It would help save a lot of money and make it easier for good doctors to do their jobs and provide good health care if the government changed laws and enforced them so that people couldn't get away with frivolous or fraudulent law suits. Half of everything you see on TV is either commercials trying to get people to ask their doctors for certain drugs, or commercial by lawyers telling people to contact them and sue if they have ever taken a prescribed medication.
If they would concentrate more on taking steps to get rid of the parasites soaking the system, trying to get money for nothing in lawsuits, cheating medicare, way over charging for things, and let doctors do their jobs without having to dedicate so much of their income to sky high malpractice insurance just to cover their butts in case someone wants to get rich quick and decides to sue over something stupid or made up, they could help the people in this country a lot more.
Livvy - 14 years ago
Chris,
You dumb jackass, shut your face till you know what you are talking about. My husband has a job with medical insurance, and except for a period when he got laid off, he works 40-58 hours a week and we have health insurance with his job. I am on disability (which is a government program, as if any medical coverage you get with it, moron, and that medical coverage ain't much to speak of). We don't try to live outside our means, we have no credit cards, we don't borrow money or get things on credit, if we can't pay for something outright, we don't get it (except for our house) and even so, we very nearly lost our home recently due in part to the portion of the medical bills that we have to pay because they aren't covered by my husband's insurance or medicaid.
And before you start making more asshole assumptions, I have never smoked, don't drink, never done drugs, never done anything that you can claim caused my health problems.
Before my husband had the job he has now, he served his country in the Army, he's worked and paid taxes for 26 years, and I worked and paid taxes for 10 years before my health got too bad to work any more.
The honest truth is that sometimes you try to do everything right, and life still screws you over.
Oh, and BTW, dumb ass, disability doesn't pay anyone enough to live on. If a person is in too poor a health to work, and they go on disability, they will probably still end up bankrupt and homeless. Kindly step into the real world and catch a whiff of the stinking reality that Bush and his fine war mongering conservatives have left our country in and shut your damn pie hole till you have something marginally intelligent to say.
Livvy - 14 years ago
Chris,
You dumb jackass, shut your face till you know what you are talking about. My husband has a job with medical insurance, and except for a period when he got laid off, he works 40-58 hours a week and we have health insurance with his job. I am on disability (which is a government program, as if any medical coverage you get with it, moron, and that medical coverage ain't much to speak of). We don't try to live outside our means, we have no credit cards, we don't borrow money or get things on credit, if we can't pay for something outright, we don't get it (except for our house) and even so, we very nearly lost our home recently due in part to the portion of the medical bills that we have to pay because they aren't covered by my husband's insurance or medicaid.
And before you start making more asshole assumptions, I have never smoked, don't drink, never done drugs, never done anything that you can claim caused my health problems.
Before my husband had the job he has now, he served his country in the Army, he's worked and paid taxes for 26 years, and I worked and paid taxes for 10 years before my health got too bad to work any more.
The honest truth is that sometimes you try to do everything right, and life still screws you over.
Oh, and BTW, dumb ass, disability doesn't pay anyone enough to live on. If a person is in too poor a health to work, and they go on disability, they will probably still end up bankrupt and homeless. Kindly step into the real world and catch a whiff of the stinking reality that Bush and his fine war mongering conservatives have left our country in and shut your damn pie hole till you have something marginally intelligent to say.
JazzyGrizzly - 14 years ago
Why is this such a big deal? Isn't this universal healthcare? Canada has universal healthcare. So does Japan and like everywhere else in the world. Some americans cannot afford to pay for healthcare for themselves. I think it will be a good thing. Just because you can afford healthcare and insurance doesn't mean that everyone else can. There is poverty in every country. Think of them too. Not to sound like a revolutionary, but think about it...
realist - 14 years ago
it will only last 15 years then i will have to pay for it and you will to
mls should get a job or move and get one
i think obama should rethink it and have it only for people who cant afford it and have a job or are at least looking for one i am not for any select party i just dont want the US to be more in debt then it already is
comypinkofag - 14 years ago
russia is one step closer to runing america bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!1!1!!!!!!
MLS - 14 years ago
Hey guys, I don't know about the rest of you and your opinions, but from my perspective, being an unemployed type one diabetic is fucking terrifying. I could literally die any day. Have you ever thought of not being able to afford essentials like food or water? I'll bet you haven't, now I want you to try. Got it in your head? Horrible isn't it? Sure, you can apply for *some* aid and charity, but there's not a whole lot they can really do for you because everyone else in your position is asking for the same exact thing, and you, by far, are not a rarity. Now imagine that there are people of the stern opinion that you shouldn't be given that. You would go ballistic, wouldn't you? Doesn't make any sense, does it? Having that *little* bit of extra time for my life to get a *little* bit back together, and it isn't going to destroy your life you greedy bastards.
tp - 14 years ago
Posted by penguinejoe on March 27th 2010, 2:20pm
"Oh, and by the way has he ever produced his birth certificate proving he is a natural born citizen??"
Do your homework you birther moron. Geez, no wonder Palin and McCain failed so miserably when their only supporters are idiots like you.
Here is the story with all of the details if you actually want to learn (but I assume you don't because you'd rather be an ignorant fool):
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
tp - 14 years ago
Welcome to the modern world, my American brothers and sisters, where we have had universal healthcare for decades. I'm sure you'll enjoy the say. Whatever happens, make sure YOU vote in the midterms and encourage your friends/family to do so too. Keep the greedy republicans and their libertarian spin out of the important jobs because 8 years of those skin-bags made the world hate the US, and destroyed your economy.
Don't forget that the financial crisis happened on Bush's watch. I'm so surprised how many dumbasses say the economy is Obama's fault, completely forgetting you had a retarded monkey "running" your country when everything went to hell. Let's think about bush's legacy shall we? Progress with North Korea? FAIL. Progress with Iran? FAIL.Did he find Osama like he said he would? FAIL. Did his cowboy tactics cost American lives? Yes. Did Americans lose the right to privacy thanks to the Patriot act? Yes. Guantanamo and other secret prisons? Yeah.. they created more terrorists than they stopped.
Keep up the good work Obama. Ignore the haters because they don't understand a thing about how the real world works.
Zhanael - 14 years ago
Huzzah, now I don't have to die from aortic root dissection because insurance wouldn't cover my surgeries (lolpreexistingconditions) and beta blockers only go so far! Maybe I can even make as much money as I need to and not have to limit my income to $3650/year or else lose coverage through my parents!
zozo.h123 - 14 years ago
Yeah I'm Irish not American
App - 14 years ago
Penguin: You misspelled "lobotomized" Was that deliberate?
Appalachian - 14 years ago
I wish they'd just pass it so we can see how it works - or doesn't. It's a waste of time, this endless speculation. I want the INSURANCE COMPANIES to quit being God over America. If it's socialism, is that any worse than what we have now? P.S. I'm a conservative.
The healthcare reform is long overdue. Unfortunately, it will stay that way. With the present composition of the healthcare bill, the legal challenges that it currently faces are going to kill it, even though it has been technically passed.
The problem lies in the individual mandate. What this amounts to is a tax on simply being ALIVE in the US, and that is not going to fly. If this case goes long enough and manages to get to the Supreme Court, it will be shot down simply due to the present composition of the court. Right idea, wrong execution. We need to start over. From scratch.
penguinejoe - 14 years ago
The people that are in favor of this stupid health bill, are people that are not very educated. Any person with half a brain can see that Obama is not intouch with reality. Oh, and by the way has he ever produced his birth certificate proving he is a natural born citizen?? All the mentally deficient people that voted for this anglel of death of the American way of life, need to be rounded up and labotmized.
Anubis - 14 years ago
Personally I say we just adopt Norway's health care! Soo much better then our health care system, but personally I hate big business. So what does my opinion count...
theotherkindofpatriot - 14 years ago
really it works very well in theory and it is a good idea but just look at everything else we have done like the post office weve had 175 years to get it right but we screwed it up social security weve had 75 years to get right but weve screwed up the public school system, ETC i dont think this will be much different but nice try.
Brian - 14 years ago
Hate to admit it to Americans, but life is not pretty. No matter what health care bill or insurance scandel that gets passed from the government, there will still be a near equal amount of people dying in our country due to lack of health care. The purpose is not behind the insurance, its called "if you want a service, even healthcare, you pay for it!" The bill will not bring about good change, yes maybe to those who never made anything of their wretched lives anyway, but not to the average American that they never asked our opinion of this bill. I've heard all of this talk of "change" and "hope", but the only "change" I've seen in the last year was a rise in taxes for no result whatsoever. As for hope, iI feel that factor died about two months into the presidency. Personally I hope the healthcare bill is abolished (and I would prefer burned), but I feel that many others share my opions on this argument, many more at least that disagree. Yet as a final argument to my case, do you really want anyone, even a government, further controlling your life when you are presumed to live in a "free" country? I would presume not. So the question arises: "What is the difference between our country and Canada?" The answer? Non-socialized medicine. If it didn't work there, what makes anyone possibly think it will work here?
PS: To any Canadians who were offended, I do apologize, I just appreciate not waiting three years to book a doctor's appointment.
Tron - 14 years ago
@ bee "45,000 people die each year in the U.S. from lack of health insurance"
I don't believe that statement is true. People can die from lack of food, lack of water, lack of oxygen... I do not believe you can die from lack of health insurance. If you change the wording then perhaps 45K people dies without health insurance but this still is misleading since I would assume that a heart attack can kill you with or without insurance.
Felicia - 14 years ago
I'm not really going to say much here, I'm writing letters to my local congressmen and attorney general instead of posting on various threads. I would like to make a couple comments to all of the non us citizens posting on here. I am very well aware that Canada, UK, France and Australia all have universal health care. If it works in your country that’s great, but that doesn't mean that we can just adopt your system and it's going to work just the same. Your countries have anywhere from 20-60 million people living there.... that does not mean we can just mimic your system and it will be totally fine when talking about 330 MILLION! Oh and that doesn't include all of the "undocumented citizens" that our president wants to pardon. Our country needed a change and this is not it. I live in a state on the boarder of Canada and I know PLENTY of Canadians that could not stand the universal system. I don't feel like paying an absurd amount of money for products like groceries and cars because the cost has to be spread out all over. And I sure as hell don't want to be put on a waiting list for 6 months because the health care system is backed up. If all of your health care systems worked perfectly then why are many of your diplomats coming to America to get treated? Both of our systems have their pros and cons, but if I had to pick one it would be the one the US had as of last week. So please take into consideration the vast difference between our countries before you accuse us of being selfish, spoiled Americans.
Reid - 14 years ago
I don't care because I am CANADIAN! Free healthcare ALL THE TIME!
bee - 14 years ago
45,000 people die each year in the U.S. from lack of health insurance.
If, in a year from now, we find that many people died because their $250,000+/year salaries were being taxed, THEN we'll think about repealing the bill.
Deal?
Stephanie - 14 years ago
Aside from the fact that it was passed on totally uncostitutional grounds, it's also unconstitutional to FORCE people to purchase health care. I understand they WANT every American to be insured, however, it is not the government's decision on if someone should be or not. That's for each individual to decide. Hopefully it's fixed soon.
JAK - 14 years ago
This bill isn't about helping the poor get insurance or helping poor kids get insurance. There was already a health insurance program in place for kids. Here is my question. If this bill is so great, why is it that they are waiting to implement the most expensive parts, i.e. the parts where people get insurance and some get it paid for by taxpayers, until after Obama has already run for re-election? If it was so great they would want to implement it before he runs again so that he can use it as a platform for re-election. They will start taxing for it immediately and the biggest parts of the bill that cost money won't go into effect until 2013 or 2014. The bill in it's current form doesn't offer pre-existing condition coverage for children.
Taking over any portion of the nations business is not the job of government, not GM, not health care. It is in my opinion unconstitutional to force any member of our society to purchase the services of another member of our society, let alone have the government set the prices for that service. No-where in the constitution does it allow for the federal government to penalize someone for not buying a service from another person. Something we should all remember as well, is, the US is a Republic, not a Democracy. We were founded and based on a rule of law and not meant to be driven by the whims of the masses, this was clearly recorded in the constitution. Also the 10th amendment makes it unlawful for the fed' to proscribe any law on the states that the states do not give the fed' the lawful right to do. There are currently 37 states with proposals for law to make the Health Care bill unlawful in those states. If 1 more state takes action and protects their own sovereignty against the fed' then the law will be unable to hold no matter who signs it. This is the way our constitution works, it is an excellent system of checks and balances. The methods used to pass the bill were unlawful and have opened the door to future development on both sides of the aisle that will cause trouble in the future... "Deem and Pass" is what I am referring to here. when one house refuses to vote there is a no-confidence rule that saws the bill must go for review.
asbestos - 14 years ago
@ rivers
>>>"What other cherished American "right" has ever required that we diminish another's liberty? "
asbestos - 14 years ago
What is it **Exactly** that everyone is so upset about? Having to get insurance? If you dont have it and say get in a car wreck who will pay the $200,000 $400,000 or 1,000,000 bill????
I guess you think it's fine for me to pay it. Think that is an exageration? look into the cost of trauma care.
And someone said were not the first country in the world to do this. Yeah closer to the last.
Every single other industrialized country has this, each and every one. Like those lazy, left wing Germans whose industry is saddled with these "crushing taxes" that kill business, & cost jobs except they are the worlds #1 exporter.
Dfyant - 14 years ago
The implicit claim in the assertion that healthcare is a "right" is that it is a constitutionally protected right. All experts agree that healthcare is neither a constitutional nor a legal right. In America we understand that our rights to the free exercise of religion, to speak freely, to bear arms, and to be secure from unwarranted search and seizure come from God.
To see the difference in government-mandated healthcare and real rights, look at how they are exercised. Historically, American citizens have been free to exercise their real, constitutionally protected rights -- or not -- as they see fit.
For example, the government does not compel citizens to attend church in the name of religious freedom. The government does not compel citizens to own a gun in the name of the Second Amendment. And the government does not force citizens to engage in the political process in the name of free speech.
In contrast, our radically "progressive" friends are eager to compel every American using the heavy hand of government to exercise their so-called "right" to healthcare. Should we celebrate the passage of a bill that in the service of non-existent rights actually diminishes our liberty?
What is really at issue is not whether healthcare is a "right," but whether citizens have a right to taxpayer-funded healthcare. What other cherished American "right" has ever required that we diminish another's liberty? Does the right to free speech require newspaper owners to print every op-ed and editorial? Does the right to bear arms require the government to arm its citizenry? Does the freedom of religion require government-funding of churches, mosques, and synagogues? Of course not!
Why then, does this "right" to healthcare require the government to take from some to give to others? When in the history of our country have we had to secure a right by trampling on the liberties of others?
Rivers - 14 years ago
I'm English. Doesnt effect me, shame on the internet for being prejudiced to not being American.
Tron - 14 years ago
I thought this was America where you WORKED for your dream, since when was the federal govt responsible for handing you a free ride. Mr. "I am bankrupt" at the top, why don't you work for what you get instead of thinking that it should be given to you. This bill is just going to bury us in debt like the first stimulus package and the upcoming "oops we messed up on the first one so lets spend more" stimulus package. Republicans and Democrats need to stop with all the BS and do what is right for the country and not what is best for them independently. Our government is broken and this Red Vs. Blue garbage is what has caused it. All of you people who associate with a party need to have your heads examined and your voting rights revoked. I served this country and am very ashamed of what has become of our once great nation. The Great and Mighty USA is now just filled with whiny imbeciles that want freebies.
Aussie Chick - 14 years ago
I don't understand how anyone can be against Universal Healthcare. The U.S is not the first country to do this, and yes, it will be hard to maintain in the beginning. But health care is a basic human right, at least in some countries. Yes, private insurance is better quality of care, but it's a choice. Maybe America can learn a lesson from some 'lesser' countries who are not in as severe as economic crisis as they are, and yet still have healthy citizens.
AtomicFireball - 14 years ago
I'm moving to another country, but Rush Limbaugh can find his own f#%$ing place to live!
Janine - 14 years ago
I am waiting to see the backlash from all the Obama supporters who don't realize they are above the income level at which care will be covered by the government but who do not make enough to really afford the private insurance that is required on this plan. Good luck paying the fines!This bill does not really help anyone.
Canadian - 14 years ago
Well, I live in Canada whewre you guys think we have "free" healthcare. Do you know how much we pay in taxes to fund it? By the time you add income taxes and sales taxes, at least half of your income is gone to the government....and Canada does not spend much on defense to speak of..Are you prepared to pay higher taxes to fudn healthcare for everyone? Where is money for it goign to come from? Are you also prepared to have higher income taxes for everyone to pay off government debts whicha re already in trillions fo dollarsm - which the Obama adminsitratin does not ike to discuss? Well, the universal healthcare is a great idea, but when it comes to implementation, people forget how much it costs. Obama government just put your children into higher debt and deficit than before and you are cheering them on.
Q - 14 years ago
Deuteronomy 15:7, 11
If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.
Matthew 25:41-45
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Stan - 14 years ago
The health care fiasco has just proven whats wrong with the 2 party system. We have 2 partys of first graders who are so worried about not helping the other team that nothing good will ever come out or our government. The current bill has good and bad things, The republican bill has good & bad areas also. If these children would pull their heads out of their A&&es they could actually get something meaningfull done.
We can fix though. Get everyone to vote 3rd party & we can break the stale mate as neither of the 1st grade classes will have control then.
Schmidty - 14 years ago
The way I see it, those who are completely against this
a.) have never been injured, sick, or had an emergency operation, or
b.) are greedy
Don't the conservatives follow the Bible? Doesn't the Bible say we should help those less fortunate than us? I mean, the countries that already have universal healthcare or something similar (that is, nearly every other major country) are laughing their asses off at us for arguing so much over this. Even if it doesn't work out, I think it's a step in the right direction and we can always change it if we need to.
jrob - 14 years ago
Gee whiz people, what more do you want? Free healthcare for all? I guess that's what some people want...but not me.
Nika - 14 years ago
It will be enough when all legal medial procedures are covered. Your right to moral/religious freedom does not outweigh my right to bodily autonomy and privacy.
Chordoodle - 14 years ago
**Other**
I don't like it, I think it's the wrong action to fix the problem. That being said, I would be a hell of a lot angry about the whole thing if Obama and the Dem.s hadn't used reconciliation rules to push it through. That amounts to cheating, they used it inappropriately to get it pushed through knowing that they wouldn't be able to get it with a required super majority vote. This circumvented the appropriate channels that is used to help keep things checked and balanced. Reconciliation was never meant to be used this way.
If I believed that a true majority of Americans really wanted this I still wouldn't like it but, I wouldn't feel cheated and utterly disregarded. Of course, the government hasn't been interested in truly representing the citizens is a very long time, mostly because most of the citizens haven't cared enough to vote or to vote their consciences in so damned long.
Bruce - 14 years ago
Wow. The hyperbole around this issue is really amazing.
Have you actually taken a look at what's in the act?
Starting today:
Tax Credits for small businesses to help buy health insurance for their employees.
Help seniors pay for their medicines by closing the Medicare part D donut hole.
In 90 Days:
Health insurance pools to provide coverage for those with no insurance because of pre-existing conditions will be up and running.
On Sept 23:
Children can not be denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
No more recissions (the process where insurance companies drop coverage for people when they get sick).
No more lifetime limits on medical benefits.
Children can stay on parents health insurance until the age of 26.
On Jan 1, 2011:
Insurance Companies will be required to pay at least 80-85% of what they take in from premiums on actual medical care.
Medicare patients get free preventive care (no co-pays).
In 2014:
There will be a total ban on pre-existing condition denials.
Health insurance exchanges fully open for those without health insurance.
No more annual limits on medical benefits.
Two very good questions about health care reform are answered in a couple of articles that I found with a 10 minute google search:
1. How is this going to be paid for?
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0321/Health-care-reform-bill-101-Who-will-pay-for-reform
2. What does it mean for ME?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/03/23/health.care.scenarios/
Nick - 14 years ago
Both sides are idiots.
The Dems are idiots for allowing so many delays, for putting healthcare reform ahead of more important issues, and for permitting so many sweetheart deals for special interests.
The Repubs are idiots for lying about the whole thing. Ds tried to work with Rs, Rs screwed them over, then Rs complain Ds aren't working with them. Ds need to make deals like the Cornhusker amendment to get it passed, Rs complain - but if any of them attempted to work with the Ds, the Cornhusker amendment wouldn't be necessary. In every nationwide poll, the majority supports healthcare reform, but Rs continue stating that the bill is against the will of the people.
The whole thing is a clusterfark, and a waste of 1 year.
Josh - 14 years ago
Wow. Is this a biased poll or what? Nothing to simply state that I believe it to be a step in the WRONG direction. Wait, no. It's a LEAP in the wrong direction. I've always gotten the hint that Pundit Kitchen was biased, but the polls lately have just been getting worse and worse.
MmmOkay - 14 years ago
This, like so much else, will simply bankrupt the country entirely. If not for GATT, NAFTA, CAFTA, etcetera, we would still have a strong economy with minimal unemployment. Instead, 1923-Germany-style hyperinflation is just around the corner. Rahm Emmanuel said health care would need to be "rationed" --before they made him shut up. A lot of the "savings" will be "fixed" by special backdoor deals to placate erstwhile opponants. Watch for some Executive Orders to follow... Then the deficits will come roaring in.
We will be FAR worse off once this is all over.
I forgot. All schools have school nurses. One major provision places clinics in all schools. Good, yes? Well, the agency NAMED to do this is part of Planned Parenthood. So your daughter gets raped, they hush it up, abort the baby, and --she's all ready to go through it AGAIN!!! And ALL without YOUR knowledge or consent!!
Yeah, CHANGE!
Daniel - 14 years ago
I'd like to point out that it seems this poll is skewed. There are middle responses, extreme responses on both sides, and moderate left responses but no moderate right responses, except for the republican repeal option. None of the options suited my tastes, and it seems like the poll creator wanted it to seem like there are no solid-minded right leaning people who are able to think for themselves and not simply hate everything that the the democrats try. Don't believe this poll, it isn't a fair representation.
YeahStuff - 14 years ago
We're screwed.
There are things in this bill that everyone ignored because "We need change!" Well F this type of change!!
I'm going to be paying for some hooker's herpies test in L.A.
And oh yeah, if you have a child that you thihnk has a mental disabilty that hasn't been diagnosed, like the child will be born a month from now and he/she starts showing signs of autisum, have fun with paying for all the tests by yourself because now it has to be PROVEN that they have a disablity even if it is painfully obvious that he/she is suffering. And after you prove it, you can enjoy waiting in line because the ones that have money will get in first.
This bill will NOT help middle class americans, it will give health care to the poor and make the middle class poorer, and keep the rich exactly where they are. This bill will help large companies and kill the small business.
We're screwed.
KRD - 14 years ago
Not going to pretend that I understand everything about the bill. But, if only for selfish reasons, I'm ecstatic it passed. Why?
Because I'm diabetic, and have been since I was five. Thank god my parents have never lost their jobs, or it would have cost an arm an a leg. (And it still does!) And now I don't have to worry about being denied for my preexisting condition.
Go healthcare!
zysmith - 14 years ago
The Republicans need to get their collective heads out of their collective derrières, stop running for office and start running the country. You lost the election. Get over it and start doing what you get paid way too much money to do.
Health care will help people. You had ample opportunity to add your input and spent all your time trying to kill it to weaken the president. You lost again. Now the Republicans are opposing the bill to fix some of the issues they have been railing against and are missing yet another opportunity to have input on the bill. Strike 3, you're out.
Get a clue and become part of the process, not part of the problem.
Serrinatta - 14 years ago
CptChaos:
Agreed, the government is run by people who are "Christian" in name only, not in following. What you're saying to me was basically what I meant but I guess I'm never very clear when I try to make a point that bothers me so much. :)
Seeing more of theses comments as I read down, there are either ranters or practical people. Ranters are on both sides, of course. But, I wish I could tell people who rant, yell seeth and what not that... if they do that on the net, they won't just get "TL;DR" ("Too long; didn't read" for the non chat speakers :) I'm one of them) from the rest of the people, but then they make themselves look stupid.
The majority of the practical people seem to agree that this was a good 'idea', but that it's going the wrong way. Which, sadly, is typical of the government.
For now, we're all just stuck with what we got. I'm sure something to counter this will pop up soon enough. No idea if it'll pass or not.
Who knows, if it's $20/mo like someone had said? Then I'll get my x-rays, exams, physicals, 3 months on each prescriptions I'm supposed to be on, and anything else expensive out of the way NOW, in case it does get shut down later. Those things I've been saving up for total somewhere around $1.5k that I otherwise couldn't afford. If it gets shut down quick? I save some money. If it gets shut down not so quick? I break even. If it doesn't get shut down? I would have been paying it anyway, and I got what I needed right away.
Wendy - 14 years ago
Something needed to be done. Medical costs were out of control, insurance companies were punishing people for actually using their insurance, too many people were being volleyed between insurers who were competing - not for their business - but to avoid paying, leaving the burden of paying on the insured. This is NOT socialized medicine. The UK, Canada and many others (all our allies, by the way) have socialized medicine. We will still have choices. But, people won't fall through the cracks any more. No one will be forced to leave their homes because of medical costs. No one will have to divorce so their family can go on welfare to have coverage. There will be more equitable coverage for all - not just for the privileged.
Neztra - 14 years ago
Other - I really want to be optimistic about this bill, but I am concerned about the long term financial, economical and administrative ramifications of the bill if the government is, in typical form, unable to properly outline and execute the plan. Additionally, I am always skeptical when the government institutionalized private industry even a little bit. History shows that private organizations succeed where government fails.
Are we just going to increase our national debt? Is this the end of America's golden age? It is scary to think about. but I want to hope that this bill will benefit more American citizens than not.
Janus - 14 years ago
Having required health care isn't in itself a bad concept. Ma countries in Europe actually require it. The problem is the way you go about it. Yes it is potentially a good steps for citizens to all have health care but the government should not be the one paying for it. Look at how bad Medicare failed. The people should have to pay for their own health care or split it with their employer. If they cannot afford it then the government should not have to be the one to pay for it for them - they can simply go without it until they find work and are able to get it.
I think the way they are going about things is wrong, and if all the changes Obama wishes to make happen, then the United States will slowly start down it's path towards Communism. Many problems the US faces are similar to problems that Europe is facing or has recently faced and the US is not learning from all of their mistakes. Simply look at all the Lisbon plans that are failing and requiring communist doctrines as international policies that countries are being forced to follow because it puts money in the politicians pockets and in the end they don't actually care about the people.
Not enough people, especially in America, care about real, important news and what is going on in the World. It is really quite sad when the people of Europe know more about America, what goes on there, and the views and opinions of the government than people in America.
eds3284 - 14 years ago
i'd like to add one thing here. Something that outrages me is the cost of medical equipment, supplies, and how much is being paid to doctors and the like.
That's fine though, they deserve to have a bit of money because most of them are saving lives. And i also understand that sterile equipment is necessary.
But (for instance) my great grandmother needed an ambulance one day 12 years back. It turns out she just had low blood sugar and felt funny, and passed out. they did not take her to the hospital and all they gave her was insulin because she could not afford her own. The cost for an ambulance to come out with 2 EMS's, and give a lady insulin? -/+ $800. (she showed me the bill and worried how it would get paid for) eight hundred dollars for an ambulance to drive less than a mile, and help an old woman. Wow. and that was back in the 90's i'd probably shit bricks if i saw the bill for an ambulance now!
eds3284 - 14 years ago
I agree with some, not all of what is happening. From what i understand 32 million people will be able to get insured without much effort. I really only listened/care about one part of this bill. How will this help extremely poor people? Yeah sure, I'm on a PC right now, but next week we will be homeless because we cannot pay the rent. Why? We got laid off. Why? Because business slowed down. Why? Because everyone is getting laid off and doesn't have the money to buy these things. Why? Because their business slowed down....you get where i am going with this. This vicious cycle has to stop somehow or another. Besides, won't this raise taxes for the American people? Won't that cause more problems and land more people in trouble because they can't even pay their already high taxes/bills?
What i am getting at is, a family (us for example, 2 adults, no kids, no property except a car, no debt. we make less than 10k a year and i have medical problems that need to be attended to before i can work again.) that has close to nothing, is going to be required to pay for health insurance with (from what i understand) 'help' from the government. How is this going to reduce the deficit? Won't this make it worse? I want to know exactly how much they are talking about making us pay. If it's more than $20 a month, we're screwed. And (from what i understand) there is a $3000 fine for not having health insurance (somewhere in this bill... also, i read somewhere that, that part of the bill wont take effect until 2014.) and since we can't pay that either, we'll end up in jail. (correct me if i am wrong, but don't pay fine = jail = lose the only job you could get after 7 months of unemployment = get out after a month with nothing and have to start over.............)
wow. I don't see how this will fix things.
I welcome you to correct and flaws or misunderstandings in my post regarding the bill. Help me understand how this will benefit the country.
Frank - 14 years ago
As a student living in the Netherlands, I would have been sunk were it not for the universal/socialist health care they have over here. You are immensely selfish if you believe that helping other people is less important than your wallet. I'm sure the system can be taken advantage of, but that's with everything, everywhere. Your tax code can also be taken advantage of, no?
Al - 14 years ago
I'm not reading all of this because it's late and I have a headache, probably because I'm here instead of sleeping, but my initial reaction to reading up on it and talking about it, because I didn't catch it on the news, was that it was all kind of shady and misinterpretations are being made, but by who? Because some of us are reading different things and we obviously both/all think we're right. We need some clean, hard lines.
ItsAGermanThing - 14 years ago
Other: I don't live in the USA
NotGonnaWorry - 14 years ago
While I agree that this country indeed needs healthcare reform, this bill has nothing to do with healthcare reform. It is entirely about Health INSURANCE reform. This inevitably will cost us dearly in the long run. As has been poiunted out already take a look at Medicare, the USPS, Social Security, and all the other programs like those. Social Security is broke, the USPS loses money every year, Medicare dictates what care and medications you can receive and how often. How can we begin to fathom how the government will be able to make this work when they cannot even begin to fix all the broken programs. The concept and goal of this bill is admirable and needed but the ends DO NOT justify the means. The government has lost sight of wha thtey are there for...they are there to provide the things and services we as a people and the individual states CANNOT.....not those they WILL NOT. Like it or not this country was founded on Christian pronciples found all through the Holy Bible. We as a nation have strayed from those principles and allowed our government to do so as well. That is the reason we are in such a mess. I am greatly afraid of what this will mean for my healthcare in the future. I do not like the thought, right or wrong, of the government telling me what insulin I can use, what meter...what method of insulin delivery....get the picture? I do not likethe thought of the government making the decision as to whether or not Ic an have laser or traditional surgery to resotre my eyesight. Now before you go and tell me that if I don't want to worry about those thing I need to take care of myself I'll say this....my overall average blood sugar ranges from 100 -150 with the normal range being 80-120...I have had 16 eye surgeries and have been problem free for the past 5 years. I have no signs of nerve damage or circullation problems as of yet. The chances of those things ddeveloping in the future are good though. Knowing that I likely will bein a position of having numerous SERIOUS health conditions in the future, I still cannot trust in this bill to take care of me when that time comes. Now...if anyone wants to know how well our government can run healthcare and what it will belike....ask a Veteran who depends on the VA for their healthcare and you will get an idea what we are in for. While I greatly disagree with this bill and the method by which it was crammed down the throats of the American people, we have no one to blame but ourselves for allowing our government to come to the realizzation that it can do whatever it wants regardless of the Constitution, regardless of what the peopple say, and regardless of the consequences we will face down the road. I am not going to worry about those consequences however because I cannot change a thing on my own. We as a nation MUST stand up and be heard. We can change the direction this nation is going, we can vote all those who voted for this bill out of office and, heavin forbid it ever come to this, we can dissolve our government and start over if it becomes absolutely necessary. History repeats itself and I think we are about to live out some of the hard times our gradparents and great-grandparent lived through. Again...I' not worrying because my hope is not put in our government, our President, Our Congress, or any other person or entity on the face of the earth...MY hope is solidly grounded in the the one and priciples our country was founded upon....Jesus Christ and th God of Israel. He has, does, and will continue to meet my every need. I may not have anything I WANT but i know I will have EVERYTHING I need.
Jon - 14 years ago
the government simply doesn't work anymore, it is run by corporations and actually has no power. if a big company doesn't like something they will simply pay the republicans to get rid of the problem for them.
solesk - 14 years ago
there should be an option for "Fox News says i hate it, so i do"
Lindy - 14 years ago
So far, its very interesting to see the percentage results. Great to see these polls
CptChaos - 14 years ago
Dave M. "If pro- is the opposite of con-, then is progress the opposite of Congress?" Of course! And with this health care "reform," there goes the economy, thank you very much, Congress and President Obama. Just when we had hopes of pulling out of this near depression, you have to shove us back down. We'll remember that, come time to vote. And we'll be reaching into our bag of tricks to stymie you, as we usually do whenever you pass some bad piece of legislation. Remember Prohibition? You'd better.
Serrinatta: Right on, but there is one thing that needs to be cleared up: "I can never quite understand why this country is run by Christians who believe more in the right for a business (insurance) to make money, than the right of someone (the uninsured) to live." This country is NOT run by Christians, it's run by power-hungry whores (male and female) who are being bought off by special interests. Some of these folks are honorable - once they're bought, they stay bought, but others sit on the fence and oink as enticingly as possible so as to attract even more swill into their private troughs.
If it was run by Christians and other altruists, there'd be a lot more privately funded free clinics, medical personnel who treat those who are unable to pay for free during certain days of the week/month, and pharmaceutical companies willing to donate the medicines needed to treat these folks. We have medical missions overseas, why not here as well?
Mouzly - 14 years ago
We need some way for this country to take care of our sick. I object to the fact that it's a huge, complicated 2000-page monster that likely has more than a few legalese loopholes, but getting the ball rolling on a healthier population is a step forward. There is no way we'll have it perfect on the first go, but I'll take an imperfect system for now if it's working toward a goal I support.
I'm 25, I work full time, I go to school full time, I have no family support, and can't afford healthcare right now. If I get too sick to work, I'm all KINDS of screwed. Go ahead and tax my paycheck when I'm healthy, so that when I'm sick it won't break me! That's how insurance works in the first place, isn't it? You pay incrementally for something to be covered in case you need it.
Here's an idea: Make educational opportunities for aspiring doctors more available and affordable. Not easier -degrees- mind you (What do you call the guy who graduated last in his class from medical school?), but easier to PAY for degrees, and more available to pursue. Drop the cost of the "product" (medical care by someone who spent a hundred thousand+ for school) and it's more feasible to drop the price to the consumer (patients paying $100 for a guy to shine a flashlight in their throats).
I'm sick of the hateful buzzwords that people throw around when they have been listening to mouth-frothing republican ranting without really seeking information. "Hussein," "Socialist," and I can't forget the video of a woman yelling "Heil Hitler" at a Jewish man who supported healthcare reform, and mocking his inability to pay elevated hospital fees. Anti-this, anti-that, ... It's tiring.
Ame - 14 years ago
ohhhh god the BS of that post is astounding..... the forefathers never talked to you, how would you know? The problems of their times were not ours, and 10 exclamation points will not help your point. Everyone should shut up about being communist because if you think about it, the only reason communism is bad is because full out communism NEVER works in real life. On paper communism is a wonderful idea, everyone sharing everything equally would be wonderful! but it isn't going to happen. We are not communist, and we never will be, but a little bit of communist ideas can help.... I'm too tired tonight to do a full fledged response to this, but still.... capslock and punctuation does not make you right, neither does bad grammar.
THEY ARE FREAKIN TAKING AWAY OUR FREEDOMS CAN YOU IDIOT WHO SAID "RIGHT CHOICE" NOT SEE THIS?!
"those who can afford it and choose not to get it WILL BE FINED!" this is NOT what the fore-fathers had in mind when they made this nation. And for those of you who think that this is still a Constitutional union...YOU ARE BLIND! the constitution is used about as much as the Bible in school! in other words....ALMOST NEVER! we are so far gone that there is nothing that we can do but return to God and His sovereignty....this is so STUPID that and so Ignorant on their part...either that or they know of some of the consequences that will come of this and yet they still passed it...
AMERICA!!!!!! THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT YOU VOTED INTO CONGRESS!!!! THIS IS YOUR MISTAKE! we are in for a long hard era that will come very close to tyranny if not go so far past tyranny that it will make the other tyrannical governments look like a field of roses!
THAT IS WHAT I THINK OF THE PASSING OF OBAMA CARE! YOU FOOLS!!!!!! how could you do this to your own country? have you not studied your history enough to see that a "free" government NEVER WORKS! a government that forces these things down your throat on threat of fines never work! a -dare I say- COMMUNIST government NEVER works a TYRANNICAL government never works and we are headed towards them ALL! where will we be in ten years??? I dont know...but at the rate we are going I will say that it cant be anywhere good.
Lucas - 14 years ago
I laugh, you Americans finally have something good going, and you're angry about it?
It's a step in the right direction, by no means is it adequate though.
Greetings from Canada, where we already have great health care :D
And most of what you've heard about Canada's HC are myths. Google it.
Nick - 14 years ago
I would love healthcare reform, just not hurried through like this by such forceful practices. It feels like if we will all have a big row about this later.
Dave M. - 14 years ago
Healthcare reform in America is a very good idea, all considered. However, I have no doubt that Congress will find a way to distort and neuter any healthcare bill that passes through the system. It's unfortunate that the only people who are able to get ahead in today's American government are those who can and will manipulate the system for personal gain. It scares me that Congress has gotten so bloated and corrupt that intelligent people like Barack Obama, Joe Biden, and Eric Holder cannot deal with them.
The old saying has finally come to fruition: If pro- is the opposite of con-, then is progress the opposite of Congress?
Roweena - 14 years ago
I am australian and I really dont get what all the fuss is about... Medicare covers everyone here that earns under $55K a year and to be honest, thats about half of the community.
It makes me laugh when I hear people say socialist "ooo errr the commies are going to come and get me!!" Australia has socialist medicine, the UK, Canada, France... Are we all backwards countries?
Australia has a minimum wage of $15.40/hour, government provided healthcare, the option of generic medicine over brand name and were one of the few countries to come out of the GFC relatively unscathed.
Yes this policy isnt perfect and yes YOU are going to have to pay more to get it thru but once its stabilised your children and your childrens children are going to be better off. Stop being so selfish.
Quibby - 14 years ago
I don't think it's quite the right step to make. The US is a welcoming target for illegal immigration as it is. With the health care bill added to that (don't kid yourselves, it does cover illegal aliens, too), legal American citizens will be paying even more to take care of people who don't contribute financially to this country. That being said, I like the idea of nationalized health care in theory. In the condition that we're getting it, though, not so much...
koo koo for government - 14 years ago
Thanks for taking our health care down a peg. Taking away what people have worked for to be able to afford great health care and get insurance they deserve, we are now grouped together to recieve care and the service we see will be mediocre. Do you need to see a specialist? Can you pay out of your own pocket? And you thought the lines at the post office and DMV were bad, wait until you have those extra 30 million who were uninsured sitting in the waiting room for the doctors office. Better start trying to predict when you get sick or injured, so you can get an appointment at the same time you are sick or injured.
Ame - 14 years ago
I think its good that we're getting health care reform, because we need it, but it also scares me. My dad has been unable to get health insurance because of medical conditions and I'm happy that he'll be able to get insurance, but my mother is a pediatric radiologist (a doctor, in simpler terms) and the bill could seriously limit my family's income... I know that my family is fairly wealthy because my mom is a doctor, but I'm scared that if the bill is bad enough, my mom may be forced to move... I may have to switch schools if that happens, and all of this is scary to think about. All I can do is hope that Obama managed to pass a bill that won't be too hard on the doctors
Unknown - 14 years ago
...no. Repeal the stupid thing.
Andie - 14 years ago
ok, so i'm not against having help with healthcare coverage...that's not my issue at all, but we're copying countries that told us that the way we're doing it ia bad idea. and they know because they did it ad it didn't work for them? mr. obama needs to listen to advice and not just assume his way is the best way...
canadian boy - 14 years ago
sorry i couldn't hear you all over my universal healthcare
Serrinatta - 14 years ago
This is fair enough. though usually i don't trust most government plans to do anything that actually works, but I'll give it a try since it's available.
As to why i'd be for it:
1: I work two part time jobs, totalling 36-42 hours a week. Neither give me health care, neither can afford to hire me full time. None of my applications to full time jobs are hiring, even with my 4 year degree.
2: I make less than $15k a year, but am making too much to get on state health care.
3: I have four health conditions. Two of theses are considered diseases. One of which can be terminal. All of them are reasons why any other health insurance places I've applied to have rejected me. (as well as my income).
4: Lastly, (and this is highly my own personal opinion and rather biased to say: ) I can never quite understand why this country is run by Christians who believe more in the right for a business (insurance) to make money, than the right of someone (the uninsured) to live. after all, God gave the gift of life, not the gift of money. Yes, I do know it's more complicated than that. It always is. but, shouldn't it be even simpler than that? Shouldn't God's gifts always come first? I suppose, however, I should say nothing as I've chosen to not be 'religious' but 'spiritual' instead and refuse to be labeled a Christian any longer.
bodo - 14 years ago
The major problems I see (in no particular order):
1. Pharmaceuticals/medical equipment etc. are all too expensive; they aren't competitive enough.
2. Too many full-up hospitals, not enough clinics for the little stuff.
3. Lawyers.
4. Doctors.
5. Insurance companies (i. e. legalized protection rackets).
Why can't we just extend Medicare to cover more people (I am not currently eligible)? I pay for that all year long, my employer pays over $10k/year for my family (that's in addition to the thousands I pay). Medicare is not perfect, and I admit I seethe a bit when I see a commercial explaining how one can get a "free" scooter with Medicare (not free to me, buddy). And can anyone speaking about cost (either saving or losing) tell me they've actually read (and understood) the thing and they're not just repeating what they've heard from a partisan source? Is that too much to ask? And does anyone know what percentage of the taxes they're paying now are going to help the uninsured in the much more expensive emergency room (I have no idea)? How much money, on average, do the big pharmaceutical and insurance companies spend on lobbying? And the BAR, and the AMA?
Should health care even be competitive? Do you shop around and pick the cheapest doctor?
Scribe - 14 years ago
You do realize that this isn't free? All of this will be paid for in higher taxes. There is no magic pot of money that this comes out of, those who have health care now will pay more for it, and those that don't have it will have to buy it (this just means that you can't be turned down for pre-existing conditions) and the very few that qualify for help with it will have more red tape to wade through than you can imagine.
And for those that can't afford it? Taxes will be increased on everyone else so that they can be taken care of. That's every one who works. From the minimum wage slaves to the 'wealthy' everyone's taxes go up.
Now, I ache to hear of people who can't afford procedures, and I have given $$$ and and done donations to charitable raffles and put money in the containers on the counters at stores and eateries to help people with medical costs. But that's my choice. Now, like it or not your hard earned money will be used to fund medical treatments. And you are expecting the government to handle your money well? These are the same people who ran Freddie and Fannie into the ground, these are the same people who bankrupted California and Kansas, these are the same people who run the Post Office at a loss every year, and AMTRAK is THE ONLY transportation company (government run) to operate at a loss every year.
Really? You really think that this is going to solve the crisis?
I make less than 25,000 a year, and if insurance goes up too much more, I won't be able to afford it (I can now) and I'll be on the dole taking money out of YOUR paycheck thanks to this new health care bill.
Anonymous - 14 years ago
What I don't understand is how this is helping the people. For those too poor to afford insurance in the first place, now they will be forced to pay for insurance and if they don't they will go to jail. So they will be loosing money that they don't have. Plus with this bill you can't be denied insurance because of a pre-existing condition, so if I had a heart attack, and I called up the insurance company on my way to the hospital, I'd pay a little money and the insurance companies would have to pay a lot, thus the prices for insurance will go UP to cover all of America's health issues, costing us more money. Plus, being a catholic, it is against my beliefs to support abortion, thus it is against my beliefs to support anyone (financially) who will get an abortion, so I am being forced to pay for all of America's abortions through this bill. WHICH IS AGAINST MY RELIGION. Considering the fact that Nancy Pelosi, and apparently others in congress, are supposedly "devote catholics", it is wrong for them to support this bill. But this bill only allows the Amish and one other religious group to be exempt from this health care because of religious beliefs, why am I still being forced to oblige to this health care when it is against my religion? Not only that, but those who earn little will have to work more to earn more in order to pay for insurance, but the more you earn, the more you pay. So the people will have no extra money to spend. Plus, how can Obama sit there and say that this bill is "for and by the people"? How is it by the people when this bill is NOT SUPPORTED by 2/3 of the country? And how is this for the people if we are being forced to hand over our money for crappier insurance, and higher taxes in order to pay for all of this? We are going to be paying for this mistake for a longggggg time.
Lauren - 14 years ago
This is terrible. This is doing absolutely no good for our country. It's not helping those who can't afford health insurance, it's creating a situation where no one will be able to afford it. This will create a nation dependent on government health benefits, funded by yours truly, the average working American. The dependence will come from those individuals who will initially drop their personal insurance plans and begin to rely on the government to provide for them. This will ultimately result in insurance companies raising their premiums to sustain themselves, so those who can afford their own insurance eventually may not be able to. All the while, they're getting charged double. They pay their own insurance premiums and on top of that, a chunk of their hard earned money goes towards funding the insurance for those who apparently can't help themselves and expect the government to satisfy all their needs.
Hasn't anyone taken an economics class? When all needs are satisfied by a government, our economy dies, people are unmotivated to work, or to generate new ideas that have the potential to improve our economy. People get this mentality, you know, "why work for something when it's free?" Giving an opportunity for the masses to develop this mentality is incredibly dangerous for our economy.
This is terrible, terrible, terrible.
Dave - 14 years ago
It definitely could be a good thing, but at the moment in the current state of the world and domestic economy, we simply don't have the budget for this. This bill passed at a later date would be perfect, but political advisers are telling the politicians that it is better for their careers to get on board with this bill rather than worry about the effects it could have on the economy.
Also it kinda sucks for kids who want to be doctors. You have to go through eight years of school and then do three to five years of residency training to become a doctor. After all that work it's nice to have a well paying job. This plan will majorly cut a doctors salary.
Chris T. - 14 years ago
I think the democrats went about health care reform the completely the wrong way. Instead of just increasing taxes on everyone so they can insure everyone with a plan that will bankrupt, just like medicare, medicade, USPS, cash for clunkers, etc., they should focus more on tort reform to bring down the cost of health care so insurance companies can lower their premiums and afford to accept more people with pre-existing conditions. This would help many more people and companies afford healthcare without having a whole huge bureaucracy determining what medicine and what procedures you're allowed or not allowed to have.
Link - 14 years ago
My opposition to this starts before ideology even enters into the picture. Very simply put, the federal government cannot engage in this sort of thing without effing it up. Why is this? Because government cannot regulate itself: if a program becomes too bloated and bureaucratic, it can't shrink itself. There has been no long-term success with social security, medicaid, welfare, or any other social program (and of course, we all know how lovely the post office is), so how could anyone think that this will magically succeed? There are ways to fix the health care system without getting the government involved at all, but that's not the sort of thing that gets you re-elected.
Relative of Medical Providers - 14 years ago
It's a nice thought, but it still doesn't prevent people from abusing the system. For a real life example, I know someone who shot themselves in the foot years ago to avoid being drafted, and now gets more money a month from the government than people I know who have been legitimately injured during service to the point where they can't work. This man is fully healed and capable, he just doesn't want to work so he mooches off of government care. I don't care what system you create, people like him will always exist and will always be the biggest problem. Ergo, I don't think much will change except that we'll bankrupt our medical providers (already starting, ask anyone who owns a clinic). That will have to swing back into place eventually, but by then doctors will be so rare that we'll be right back to only the upper class really receiving care. In my opinion (you don't have to share this, just a thought) history has proven that the more a government meddles with things like this, the worse the situation gets. Following that, I vote the government removes its sticky fingers and lets the medical community act like any other service industry. Eventually the prices will drop because there will be less red tape to take care of and people will be paying for what they receive, instead of getting medicine that costs so much to make for $5 a bottle. Don't forget, doctors have to pay for their degrees and supplies like anyone else.
Chris - 14 years ago
Nate,
Instead of complaining about it, why not get a job and work over these years?
If you have a job, but still went bankrupt, then obviously you made some bad choices in your life, and you should not try to live outside your means.
Even if you have made mistakes, there are already many government programs set up to help you get food, shelter, even medicare, and back up on your feet.
If you have medical problems that keep you from working, get on disability.
Don't expect the government to come wipe your nose for you when it's running, do it yourself. Work hard and be dedicated and you can bring yourself out of the mess you're in, and it'll feel a lot better than relying on politicians for more and more things in your life.
I'm not heartless, I just believe that if people make smart decisions and worked hard, there would be a lot less problems with their lives.
dude guy - 14 years ago
might i also mention that im only 15 years old, and have serious healthcare problems. i was born with a cleft lip and pallet, and in addition to that a heart defect. my first surgery took place when i was only a few weeks old.
Jen - 14 years ago
I'm a very healthy 22 year old who recently had my health care application to Blue Shield denied for the following reasons (verbatim from the letter, with my notes in [brackets]):
-Migraine treated with Toradol and Fioricet [I have had a total of two migraines in my entire life]
-[Mild] Allergies [to cats, dogs, and dust-mites] treated with over the counter medication
-Hypothyroid [an incredibly mild, and very common condition among women] treated with Levothyroxine.
Apparently, all of those count as "preexisting conditions." So, yeah, I'm more than a little happy this bill is passing.
dude guy - 14 years ago
LISTSON WE NEED THE HEALTHCARE PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO HAVE HAD 15+ SURGERIES NEED THIS STUFF PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST THIS NEED TO RECONSIDER OTHERS WHO MIGHT ACTUALLY NEED IT. CAN YOU THINK OF A BETTER SOLUTION. IF NOT THEN SHUT UP
MomusTATW - 14 years ago
Obama is a legend, I cannot give the man enough respect, I think he is far and above the best President the USA has had in recent years. However, he will at some point make a mistake, no one person on this planet is perfect. But he really is moving in the right direction.
I really don'r understand why the Republicans are so set against a health bill to help those who are in need, and John McCain can just piss off the grumpy old so and so. I have respect for his military career, but none what so ever for his political career. A compilation of blunders, poor speeches and shocking oratory ability.
And what is the price of doing the right thing? Can you put a price on the relief of suffering that has been experienced by those who this bill will benefit? This is a major step in the right direction, big time.
My favourite section from the whole debate over this was when I heard a Republican claiming that if Stephen Hawking was British he would have been failed by the NHS (our National Health Service), despite he IS British, and has gone on record say that he owes his life to the care and service given by the NHS.....*cough* epic fail *cough*
p.s. Well played John Doe, well played
p.p.s. how can you find fault with some one who publicly called Kanye a Jackass? The man is a legend!
jim - 14 years ago
Secession is starting to look REEEEEELY good right now.
Anyone who uses the "socialist" buzzword against health care clearly has no idea what they're talking about.
Jillie Boo Jones - 14 years ago
Wish Obama would work on the economy. If so many wouldn't have lost their jobs there wouldn't be so many uninsured.
Besides, insuring everyone is only a small part of the problem. Who is everyone going to see? There aren't enough doctors as it is.
Nate - 14 years ago
I'd gladly take socialism over what we had before.
My family and I have been bankrupt and barely living for years now, I thank God that I can finally receive medical care without making my family suffer more.
There are people dying because of debt, but I'm grateful because I was able to find a hospital to give me their insurance program...but it's not enough, and god-dammit, I'm tired of suffering!
Obama finally kept one of his bigger promises, and not a second too soon!
Sometimes rabid Republicans claim that the health care bill is just part of some "liberal" plan is to bring down the rich and, as then presidential candidate Barack Obama said to Joe the Plumber, "spread the wealth around." Other times they throw out these flippant taunts like "you can't make the poor rich by making the rich poor"--rhetorically adding, "I never got a job from a poor person." As true as that might be, I think it's a bunch of bunk. I mean, where do these people get off? Clearly the Obama administration is not trying to make the rich poor, and the health care bill is not a part of any such attempt. Socialism is not about bringing down the rich--it's about leveling the playing field, you conservative idiots--in practical terms it's about bringing down everyone (except of course those in the government--they need to be rich) so there is not a class system. We can't all be Bill Gates after all--and because we can't, it's only right that nobody should (and don't give me that--"Yeah, but he employs thousands of people and gives billions to charitable causes: that's a smokescreen and you know it). Don't worry so much--you all listen to Glenn Beck too much. Where is your faith? Don't you see that by making sure nobody does without the necessities of life, the government will take care of all of us. And don't give me that "socialism has never worked before--even in formerly wealthy countries" junk; we will be the exception. I mean, we know so much more now than when it's been tried before. Why wouldn't we be able to take away individuals' incentive to get ahead by leveling the playing field without losing any productivity at all? You're just trying to use the past and psychology to make your point seem more credible. What you need to do is forget for a minute about history and the understanding of human behavior we've acquired over the past hundred years and have some faith that we'll be able to manage it. Really. Please stop worrying! Politicians are not there to try to get power for themselves and their parties, they are here to help us. Don't you trust them?
ok so im canadian
all i have to say is thank god now you americans will quit trying to jump our borders and abuse our healthcare system for free
we get paid more per hour ( canadian standard is 9.5$/hr min ) we pay higher taxes, our quality of life is higher, and our higher education is 1/10 of the american systems cost
all due to the fact that we benefit from a socialist system,
yes i pay about 30 % of my income in taxes, but when i fall sick i dont have to try to figure out how to be seen by a neighboring countries free doctors...
ps i was hospitalized last summer after an auto accident, want to know what it cost me... 0$
my wife had a kid last month guess what it cost... 0$
and my wife has a year of maternity leave and i have 10 weeks paternity leave
so keep fighting the good fight against socialism, see what good it does for you
just stay the hell out of our country when you need healthcare
my main concern is for the quality of care people will be receiving. dr's who are treating medicare patients are already underfunded for the amount of care they provide for these clients. with the budget cuts for medicare physicians are forced to drop their clients and or go non participating to medicare clients (nephrologits for example for patients who have undergone kidney transplants) leaving these mainly elderly and debilitated patients to deal with their own claims. with a mass influx of government run insurance where are all of us going to turn for care? are we going to receive the same quality of treatment? how will this affect the cost of health care in the long run? i am a part time worker and full time student having problems finding health care covereage due to my situation and pre-existing conditions, and i agree health care was over due for a much needed reform, but creating new government run health plans when there are others that are failing miserably and there is simply no money to fund any of these is simply irresponsible.
I really can't see why people are complaining about this reform.. It's not the best one, but it's a good step in the right direction.
I live in sweden where we've had this kind of health care system for ages (and don't come saying I don't know anything about the US now. I've got a lot of family there..) and it works awesome. We're a highly developed country with a good welfare and high taxes, but the social security and healthcare programs are great! If you need to change a heart? Cost you about 20$!! The rest is financed via taxes, no matter who you are. You just pay a minor % of the cost it would otherwise cost you to get a new heart, lounges etc. Same with the day to day health care, and you always get time for a doctors visit the same day as you get sick. For me that has a chronic diseases in form of MS, this is the best thing ever!
My meds would cost me thousands of dollars, not to mention the times I need to go to the hospital for treatment etc, which I would never be able to afford in the US. Insurance or not. I work as much as I can, I pay my taxes and in return I get a good safety net that will make sure that when I'm sick and can't work, I won't be forced away from my home and family. And that I will get the treatment I need to live a life where I can make use of myself both in work and in my social life. They've even payed for my dog to get the education he needs to help me out in my life so that I can live a normal life with work, friends and family.
So no, I really can't see why people are against this. Social democracy isn't the end of the world you know
Government needs to really get their sticky fingers out of...well, everything that has to do with profiting. The good intentions bill is just another piece of pavement on our road to "hell."
So many new rules that shall be so easily broken.
Guys, where I come from the bill you passed now would not be considered socialism in the slightest but rather as a neo-conservative coup de grace. And as far as I remember we now live in the (capitalist) Federal Republic as opposed to the (socialist) GDR. If you still confuse the Soviet Union with democratic socialism or even with moderate regulation within a fundamentally capitalist system, get a fucking education.
I think that a lot of health care could be fixed if instead of going at it from this direction, making taxes go up, everyone has to get it whether they can afford it or not, they went at it from a different angle and put caps on how much drug companies could charge for their medications, and add a little something that doesn't really do anything to a drug so they can call it a new formula and keep generic forms from becoming available. It would help if they had people whose job it was to keep checking up on these doctors, clinics, and other 'health care providers' to stop a lot of this fraudulent abuse of of programs like Medicare by charging for services and supplies that were never actually received by a patient. It would help save a lot of money and make it easier for good doctors to do their jobs and provide good health care if the government changed laws and enforced them so that people couldn't get away with frivolous or fraudulent law suits. Half of everything you see on TV is either commercials trying to get people to ask their doctors for certain drugs, or commercial by lawyers telling people to contact them and sue if they have ever taken a prescribed medication.
If they would concentrate more on taking steps to get rid of the parasites soaking the system, trying to get money for nothing in lawsuits, cheating medicare, way over charging for things, and let doctors do their jobs without having to dedicate so much of their income to sky high malpractice insurance just to cover their butts in case someone wants to get rich quick and decides to sue over something stupid or made up, they could help the people in this country a lot more.
Chris,
You dumb jackass, shut your face till you know what you are talking about. My husband has a job with medical insurance, and except for a period when he got laid off, he works 40-58 hours a week and we have health insurance with his job. I am on disability (which is a government program, as if any medical coverage you get with it, moron, and that medical coverage ain't much to speak of). We don't try to live outside our means, we have no credit cards, we don't borrow money or get things on credit, if we can't pay for something outright, we don't get it (except for our house) and even so, we very nearly lost our home recently due in part to the portion of the medical bills that we have to pay because they aren't covered by my husband's insurance or medicaid.
And before you start making more asshole assumptions, I have never smoked, don't drink, never done drugs, never done anything that you can claim caused my health problems.
Before my husband had the job he has now, he served his country in the Army, he's worked and paid taxes for 26 years, and I worked and paid taxes for 10 years before my health got too bad to work any more.
The honest truth is that sometimes you try to do everything right, and life still screws you over.
Oh, and BTW, dumb ass, disability doesn't pay anyone enough to live on. If a person is in too poor a health to work, and they go on disability, they will probably still end up bankrupt and homeless. Kindly step into the real world and catch a whiff of the stinking reality that Bush and his fine war mongering conservatives have left our country in and shut your damn pie hole till you have something marginally intelligent to say.
Chris,
You dumb jackass, shut your face till you know what you are talking about. My husband has a job with medical insurance, and except for a period when he got laid off, he works 40-58 hours a week and we have health insurance with his job. I am on disability (which is a government program, as if any medical coverage you get with it, moron, and that medical coverage ain't much to speak of). We don't try to live outside our means, we have no credit cards, we don't borrow money or get things on credit, if we can't pay for something outright, we don't get it (except for our house) and even so, we very nearly lost our home recently due in part to the portion of the medical bills that we have to pay because they aren't covered by my husband's insurance or medicaid.
And before you start making more asshole assumptions, I have never smoked, don't drink, never done drugs, never done anything that you can claim caused my health problems.
Before my husband had the job he has now, he served his country in the Army, he's worked and paid taxes for 26 years, and I worked and paid taxes for 10 years before my health got too bad to work any more.
The honest truth is that sometimes you try to do everything right, and life still screws you over.
Oh, and BTW, dumb ass, disability doesn't pay anyone enough to live on. If a person is in too poor a health to work, and they go on disability, they will probably still end up bankrupt and homeless. Kindly step into the real world and catch a whiff of the stinking reality that Bush and his fine war mongering conservatives have left our country in and shut your damn pie hole till you have something marginally intelligent to say.
Why is this such a big deal? Isn't this universal healthcare? Canada has universal healthcare. So does Japan and like everywhere else in the world. Some americans cannot afford to pay for healthcare for themselves. I think it will be a good thing. Just because you can afford healthcare and insurance doesn't mean that everyone else can. There is poverty in every country. Think of them too. Not to sound like a revolutionary, but think about it...
it will only last 15 years then i will have to pay for it and you will to
mls should get a job or move and get one
i think obama should rethink it and have it only for people who cant afford it and have a job or are at least looking for one i am not for any select party i just dont want the US to be more in debt then it already is
russia is one step closer to runing america bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!1!1!!!!!!
Hey guys, I don't know about the rest of you and your opinions, but from my perspective, being an unemployed type one diabetic is fucking terrifying. I could literally die any day. Have you ever thought of not being able to afford essentials like food or water? I'll bet you haven't, now I want you to try. Got it in your head? Horrible isn't it? Sure, you can apply for *some* aid and charity, but there's not a whole lot they can really do for you because everyone else in your position is asking for the same exact thing, and you, by far, are not a rarity. Now imagine that there are people of the stern opinion that you shouldn't be given that. You would go ballistic, wouldn't you? Doesn't make any sense, does it? Having that *little* bit of extra time for my life to get a *little* bit back together, and it isn't going to destroy your life you greedy bastards.
Posted by penguinejoe on March 27th 2010, 2:20pm
"Oh, and by the way has he ever produced his birth certificate proving he is a natural born citizen??"
Yes, it's here:
http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg
Do your homework you birther moron. Geez, no wonder Palin and McCain failed so miserably when their only supporters are idiots like you.
Here is the story with all of the details if you actually want to learn (but I assume you don't because you'd rather be an ignorant fool):
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
Welcome to the modern world, my American brothers and sisters, where we have had universal healthcare for decades. I'm sure you'll enjoy the say. Whatever happens, make sure YOU vote in the midterms and encourage your friends/family to do so too. Keep the greedy republicans and their libertarian spin out of the important jobs because 8 years of those skin-bags made the world hate the US, and destroyed your economy.
Don't forget that the financial crisis happened on Bush's watch. I'm so surprised how many dumbasses say the economy is Obama's fault, completely forgetting you had a retarded monkey "running" your country when everything went to hell. Let's think about bush's legacy shall we? Progress with North Korea? FAIL. Progress with Iran? FAIL.Did he find Osama like he said he would? FAIL. Did his cowboy tactics cost American lives? Yes. Did Americans lose the right to privacy thanks to the Patriot act? Yes. Guantanamo and other secret prisons? Yeah.. they created more terrorists than they stopped.
Keep up the good work Obama. Ignore the haters because they don't understand a thing about how the real world works.
Huzzah, now I don't have to die from aortic root dissection because insurance wouldn't cover my surgeries (lolpreexistingconditions) and beta blockers only go so far! Maybe I can even make as much money as I need to and not have to limit my income to $3650/year or else lose coverage through my parents!
Yeah I'm Irish not American
Penguin: You misspelled "lobotomized" Was that deliberate?
I wish they'd just pass it so we can see how it works - or doesn't. It's a waste of time, this endless speculation. I want the INSURANCE COMPANIES to quit being God over America. If it's socialism, is that any worse than what we have now? P.S. I'm a conservative.
@ Brian - Concur
@ penguinejoe - LOL
@ Railenthe - Concur
The healthcare reform is long overdue. Unfortunately, it will stay that way. With the present composition of the healthcare bill, the legal challenges that it currently faces are going to kill it, even though it has been technically passed.
The problem lies in the individual mandate. What this amounts to is a tax on simply being ALIVE in the US, and that is not going to fly. If this case goes long enough and manages to get to the Supreme Court, it will be shot down simply due to the present composition of the court. Right idea, wrong execution. We need to start over. From scratch.
The people that are in favor of this stupid health bill, are people that are not very educated. Any person with half a brain can see that Obama is not intouch with reality. Oh, and by the way has he ever produced his birth certificate proving he is a natural born citizen?? All the mentally deficient people that voted for this anglel of death of the American way of life, need to be rounded up and labotmized.
Personally I say we just adopt Norway's health care! Soo much better then our health care system, but personally I hate big business. So what does my opinion count...
really it works very well in theory and it is a good idea but just look at everything else we have done like the post office weve had 175 years to get it right but we screwed it up social security weve had 75 years to get right but weve screwed up the public school system, ETC i dont think this will be much different but nice try.
Hate to admit it to Americans, but life is not pretty. No matter what health care bill or insurance scandel that gets passed from the government, there will still be a near equal amount of people dying in our country due to lack of health care. The purpose is not behind the insurance, its called "if you want a service, even healthcare, you pay for it!" The bill will not bring about good change, yes maybe to those who never made anything of their wretched lives anyway, but not to the average American that they never asked our opinion of this bill. I've heard all of this talk of "change" and "hope", but the only "change" I've seen in the last year was a rise in taxes for no result whatsoever. As for hope, iI feel that factor died about two months into the presidency. Personally I hope the healthcare bill is abolished (and I would prefer burned), but I feel that many others share my opions on this argument, many more at least that disagree. Yet as a final argument to my case, do you really want anyone, even a government, further controlling your life when you are presumed to live in a "free" country? I would presume not. So the question arises: "What is the difference between our country and Canada?" The answer? Non-socialized medicine. If it didn't work there, what makes anyone possibly think it will work here?
PS: To any Canadians who were offended, I do apologize, I just appreciate not waiting three years to book a doctor's appointment.
@ bee "45,000 people die each year in the U.S. from lack of health insurance"
I don't believe that statement is true. People can die from lack of food, lack of water, lack of oxygen... I do not believe you can die from lack of health insurance. If you change the wording then perhaps 45K people dies without health insurance but this still is misleading since I would assume that a heart attack can kill you with or without insurance.
I'm not really going to say much here, I'm writing letters to my local congressmen and attorney general instead of posting on various threads. I would like to make a couple comments to all of the non us citizens posting on here. I am very well aware that Canada, UK, France and Australia all have universal health care. If it works in your country that’s great, but that doesn't mean that we can just adopt your system and it's going to work just the same. Your countries have anywhere from 20-60 million people living there.... that does not mean we can just mimic your system and it will be totally fine when talking about 330 MILLION! Oh and that doesn't include all of the "undocumented citizens" that our president wants to pardon. Our country needed a change and this is not it. I live in a state on the boarder of Canada and I know PLENTY of Canadians that could not stand the universal system. I don't feel like paying an absurd amount of money for products like groceries and cars because the cost has to be spread out all over. And I sure as hell don't want to be put on a waiting list for 6 months because the health care system is backed up. If all of your health care systems worked perfectly then why are many of your diplomats coming to America to get treated? Both of our systems have their pros and cons, but if I had to pick one it would be the one the US had as of last week. So please take into consideration the vast difference between our countries before you accuse us of being selfish, spoiled Americans.
I don't care because I am CANADIAN! Free healthcare ALL THE TIME!
45,000 people die each year in the U.S. from lack of health insurance.
If, in a year from now, we find that many people died because their $250,000+/year salaries were being taxed, THEN we'll think about repealing the bill.
Deal?
Aside from the fact that it was passed on totally uncostitutional grounds, it's also unconstitutional to FORCE people to purchase health care. I understand they WANT every American to be insured, however, it is not the government's decision on if someone should be or not. That's for each individual to decide. Hopefully it's fixed soon.
This bill isn't about helping the poor get insurance or helping poor kids get insurance. There was already a health insurance program in place for kids. Here is my question. If this bill is so great, why is it that they are waiting to implement the most expensive parts, i.e. the parts where people get insurance and some get it paid for by taxpayers, until after Obama has already run for re-election? If it was so great they would want to implement it before he runs again so that he can use it as a platform for re-election. They will start taxing for it immediately and the biggest parts of the bill that cost money won't go into effect until 2013 or 2014. The bill in it's current form doesn't offer pre-existing condition coverage for children.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100324/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_overhaul_children_s_coverage
Taking over any portion of the nations business is not the job of government, not GM, not health care. It is in my opinion unconstitutional to force any member of our society to purchase the services of another member of our society, let alone have the government set the prices for that service. No-where in the constitution does it allow for the federal government to penalize someone for not buying a service from another person. Something we should all remember as well, is, the US is a Republic, not a Democracy. We were founded and based on a rule of law and not meant to be driven by the whims of the masses, this was clearly recorded in the constitution. Also the 10th amendment makes it unlawful for the fed' to proscribe any law on the states that the states do not give the fed' the lawful right to do. There are currently 37 states with proposals for law to make the Health Care bill unlawful in those states. If 1 more state takes action and protects their own sovereignty against the fed' then the law will be unable to hold no matter who signs it. This is the way our constitution works, it is an excellent system of checks and balances. The methods used to pass the bill were unlawful and have opened the door to future development on both sides of the aisle that will cause trouble in the future... "Deem and Pass" is what I am referring to here. when one house refuses to vote there is a no-confidence rule that saws the bill must go for review.
@ rivers
>>>"What other cherished American "right" has ever required that we diminish another's liberty? "
What is it **Exactly** that everyone is so upset about? Having to get insurance? If you dont have it and say get in a car wreck who will pay the $200,000 $400,000 or 1,000,000 bill????
I guess you think it's fine for me to pay it. Think that is an exageration? look into the cost of trauma care.
And someone said were not the first country in the world to do this. Yeah closer to the last.
Every single other industrialized country has this, each and every one. Like those lazy, left wing Germans whose industry is saddled with these "crushing taxes" that kill business, & cost jobs except they are the worlds #1 exporter.
The implicit claim in the assertion that healthcare is a "right" is that it is a constitutionally protected right. All experts agree that healthcare is neither a constitutional nor a legal right. In America we understand that our rights to the free exercise of religion, to speak freely, to bear arms, and to be secure from unwarranted search and seizure come from God.
To see the difference in government-mandated healthcare and real rights, look at how they are exercised. Historically, American citizens have been free to exercise their real, constitutionally protected rights -- or not -- as they see fit.
For example, the government does not compel citizens to attend church in the name of religious freedom. The government does not compel citizens to own a gun in the name of the Second Amendment. And the government does not force citizens to engage in the political process in the name of free speech.
In contrast, our radically "progressive" friends are eager to compel every American using the heavy hand of government to exercise their so-called "right" to healthcare. Should we celebrate the passage of a bill that in the service of non-existent rights actually diminishes our liberty?
What is really at issue is not whether healthcare is a "right," but whether citizens have a right to taxpayer-funded healthcare. What other cherished American "right" has ever required that we diminish another's liberty? Does the right to free speech require newspaper owners to print every op-ed and editorial? Does the right to bear arms require the government to arm its citizenry? Does the freedom of religion require government-funding of churches, mosques, and synagogues? Of course not!
Why then, does this "right" to healthcare require the government to take from some to give to others? When in the history of our country have we had to secure a right by trampling on the liberties of others?
I'm English. Doesnt effect me, shame on the internet for being prejudiced to not being American.
I thought this was America where you WORKED for your dream, since when was the federal govt responsible for handing you a free ride. Mr. "I am bankrupt" at the top, why don't you work for what you get instead of thinking that it should be given to you. This bill is just going to bury us in debt like the first stimulus package and the upcoming "oops we messed up on the first one so lets spend more" stimulus package. Republicans and Democrats need to stop with all the BS and do what is right for the country and not what is best for them independently. Our government is broken and this Red Vs. Blue garbage is what has caused it. All of you people who associate with a party need to have your heads examined and your voting rights revoked. I served this country and am very ashamed of what has become of our once great nation. The Great and Mighty USA is now just filled with whiny imbeciles that want freebies.
I don't understand how anyone can be against Universal Healthcare. The U.S is not the first country to do this, and yes, it will be hard to maintain in the beginning. But health care is a basic human right, at least in some countries. Yes, private insurance is better quality of care, but it's a choice. Maybe America can learn a lesson from some 'lesser' countries who are not in as severe as economic crisis as they are, and yet still have healthy citizens.
I'm moving to another country, but Rush Limbaugh can find his own f#%$ing place to live!
I am waiting to see the backlash from all the Obama supporters who don't realize they are above the income level at which care will be covered by the government but who do not make enough to really afford the private insurance that is required on this plan. Good luck paying the fines!This bill does not really help anyone.
Well, I live in Canada whewre you guys think we have "free" healthcare. Do you know how much we pay in taxes to fund it? By the time you add income taxes and sales taxes, at least half of your income is gone to the government....and Canada does not spend much on defense to speak of..Are you prepared to pay higher taxes to fudn healthcare for everyone? Where is money for it goign to come from? Are you also prepared to have higher income taxes for everyone to pay off government debts whicha re already in trillions fo dollarsm - which the Obama adminsitratin does not ike to discuss? Well, the universal healthcare is a great idea, but when it comes to implementation, people forget how much it costs. Obama government just put your children into higher debt and deficit than before and you are cheering them on.
Deuteronomy 15:7, 11
If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.
Matthew 25:41-45
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
The health care fiasco has just proven whats wrong with the 2 party system. We have 2 partys of first graders who are so worried about not helping the other team that nothing good will ever come out or our government. The current bill has good and bad things, The republican bill has good & bad areas also. If these children would pull their heads out of their A&&es they could actually get something meaningfull done.
We can fix though. Get everyone to vote 3rd party & we can break the stale mate as neither of the 1st grade classes will have control then.
The way I see it, those who are completely against this
a.) have never been injured, sick, or had an emergency operation, or
b.) are greedy
Don't the conservatives follow the Bible? Doesn't the Bible say we should help those less fortunate than us? I mean, the countries that already have universal healthcare or something similar (that is, nearly every other major country) are laughing their asses off at us for arguing so much over this. Even if it doesn't work out, I think it's a step in the right direction and we can always change it if we need to.
Gee whiz people, what more do you want? Free healthcare for all? I guess that's what some people want...but not me.
It will be enough when all legal medial procedures are covered. Your right to moral/religious freedom does not outweigh my right to bodily autonomy and privacy.
**Other**
I don't like it, I think it's the wrong action to fix the problem. That being said, I would be a hell of a lot angry about the whole thing if Obama and the Dem.s hadn't used reconciliation rules to push it through. That amounts to cheating, they used it inappropriately to get it pushed through knowing that they wouldn't be able to get it with a required super majority vote. This circumvented the appropriate channels that is used to help keep things checked and balanced. Reconciliation was never meant to be used this way.
If I believed that a true majority of Americans really wanted this I still wouldn't like it but, I wouldn't feel cheated and utterly disregarded. Of course, the government hasn't been interested in truly representing the citizens is a very long time, mostly because most of the citizens haven't cared enough to vote or to vote their consciences in so damned long.
Wow. The hyperbole around this issue is really amazing.
Have you actually taken a look at what's in the act?
Starting today:
Tax Credits for small businesses to help buy health insurance for their employees.
Help seniors pay for their medicines by closing the Medicare part D donut hole.
In 90 Days:
Health insurance pools to provide coverage for those with no insurance because of pre-existing conditions will be up and running.
On Sept 23:
Children can not be denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
No more recissions (the process where insurance companies drop coverage for people when they get sick).
No more lifetime limits on medical benefits.
Children can stay on parents health insurance until the age of 26.
On Jan 1, 2011:
Insurance Companies will be required to pay at least 80-85% of what they take in from premiums on actual medical care.
Medicare patients get free preventive care (no co-pays).
In 2014:
There will be a total ban on pre-existing condition denials.
Health insurance exchanges fully open for those without health insurance.
No more annual limits on medical benefits.
Two very good questions about health care reform are answered in a couple of articles that I found with a 10 minute google search:
1. How is this going to be paid for?
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0321/Health-care-reform-bill-101-Who-will-pay-for-reform
2. What does it mean for ME?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/03/23/health.care.scenarios/
Both sides are idiots.
The Dems are idiots for allowing so many delays, for putting healthcare reform ahead of more important issues, and for permitting so many sweetheart deals for special interests.
The Repubs are idiots for lying about the whole thing. Ds tried to work with Rs, Rs screwed them over, then Rs complain Ds aren't working with them. Ds need to make deals like the Cornhusker amendment to get it passed, Rs complain - but if any of them attempted to work with the Ds, the Cornhusker amendment wouldn't be necessary. In every nationwide poll, the majority supports healthcare reform, but Rs continue stating that the bill is against the will of the people.
The whole thing is a clusterfark, and a waste of 1 year.
Wow. Is this a biased poll or what? Nothing to simply state that I believe it to be a step in the WRONG direction. Wait, no. It's a LEAP in the wrong direction. I've always gotten the hint that Pundit Kitchen was biased, but the polls lately have just been getting worse and worse.
This, like so much else, will simply bankrupt the country entirely. If not for GATT, NAFTA, CAFTA, etcetera, we would still have a strong economy with minimal unemployment. Instead, 1923-Germany-style hyperinflation is just around the corner. Rahm Emmanuel said health care would need to be "rationed" --before they made him shut up. A lot of the "savings" will be "fixed" by special backdoor deals to placate erstwhile opponants. Watch for some Executive Orders to follow... Then the deficits will come roaring in.
We will be FAR worse off once this is all over.
I forgot. All schools have school nurses. One major provision places clinics in all schools. Good, yes? Well, the agency NAMED to do this is part of Planned Parenthood. So your daughter gets raped, they hush it up, abort the baby, and --she's all ready to go through it AGAIN!!! And ALL without YOUR knowledge or consent!!
Yeah, CHANGE!
I'd like to point out that it seems this poll is skewed. There are middle responses, extreme responses on both sides, and moderate left responses but no moderate right responses, except for the republican repeal option. None of the options suited my tastes, and it seems like the poll creator wanted it to seem like there are no solid-minded right leaning people who are able to think for themselves and not simply hate everything that the the democrats try. Don't believe this poll, it isn't a fair representation.
We're screwed.
There are things in this bill that everyone ignored because "We need change!" Well F this type of change!!
I'm going to be paying for some hooker's herpies test in L.A.
And oh yeah, if you have a child that you thihnk has a mental disabilty that hasn't been diagnosed, like the child will be born a month from now and he/she starts showing signs of autisum, have fun with paying for all the tests by yourself because now it has to be PROVEN that they have a disablity even if it is painfully obvious that he/she is suffering. And after you prove it, you can enjoy waiting in line because the ones that have money will get in first.
This bill will NOT help middle class americans, it will give health care to the poor and make the middle class poorer, and keep the rich exactly where they are. This bill will help large companies and kill the small business.
We're screwed.
Not going to pretend that I understand everything about the bill. But, if only for selfish reasons, I'm ecstatic it passed. Why?
Because I'm diabetic, and have been since I was five. Thank god my parents have never lost their jobs, or it would have cost an arm an a leg. (And it still does!) And now I don't have to worry about being denied for my preexisting condition.
Go healthcare!
The Republicans need to get their collective heads out of their collective derrières, stop running for office and start running the country. You lost the election. Get over it and start doing what you get paid way too much money to do.
Health care will help people. You had ample opportunity to add your input and spent all your time trying to kill it to weaken the president. You lost again. Now the Republicans are opposing the bill to fix some of the issues they have been railing against and are missing yet another opportunity to have input on the bill. Strike 3, you're out.
Get a clue and become part of the process, not part of the problem.
CptChaos:
Agreed, the government is run by people who are "Christian" in name only, not in following. What you're saying to me was basically what I meant but I guess I'm never very clear when I try to make a point that bothers me so much. :)
Seeing more of theses comments as I read down, there are either ranters or practical people. Ranters are on both sides, of course. But, I wish I could tell people who rant, yell seeth and what not that... if they do that on the net, they won't just get "TL;DR" ("Too long; didn't read" for the non chat speakers :) I'm one of them) from the rest of the people, but then they make themselves look stupid.
The majority of the practical people seem to agree that this was a good 'idea', but that it's going the wrong way. Which, sadly, is typical of the government.
For now, we're all just stuck with what we got. I'm sure something to counter this will pop up soon enough. No idea if it'll pass or not.
Who knows, if it's $20/mo like someone had said? Then I'll get my x-rays, exams, physicals, 3 months on each prescriptions I'm supposed to be on, and anything else expensive out of the way NOW, in case it does get shut down later. Those things I've been saving up for total somewhere around $1.5k that I otherwise couldn't afford. If it gets shut down quick? I save some money. If it gets shut down not so quick? I break even. If it doesn't get shut down? I would have been paying it anyway, and I got what I needed right away.
Something needed to be done. Medical costs were out of control, insurance companies were punishing people for actually using their insurance, too many people were being volleyed between insurers who were competing - not for their business - but to avoid paying, leaving the burden of paying on the insured. This is NOT socialized medicine. The UK, Canada and many others (all our allies, by the way) have socialized medicine. We will still have choices. But, people won't fall through the cracks any more. No one will be forced to leave their homes because of medical costs. No one will have to divorce so their family can go on welfare to have coverage. There will be more equitable coverage for all - not just for the privileged.
Other - I really want to be optimistic about this bill, but I am concerned about the long term financial, economical and administrative ramifications of the bill if the government is, in typical form, unable to properly outline and execute the plan. Additionally, I am always skeptical when the government institutionalized private industry even a little bit. History shows that private organizations succeed where government fails.
Are we just going to increase our national debt? Is this the end of America's golden age? It is scary to think about. but I want to hope that this bill will benefit more American citizens than not.
Having required health care isn't in itself a bad concept. Ma countries in Europe actually require it. The problem is the way you go about it. Yes it is potentially a good steps for citizens to all have health care but the government should not be the one paying for it. Look at how bad Medicare failed. The people should have to pay for their own health care or split it with their employer. If they cannot afford it then the government should not have to be the one to pay for it for them - they can simply go without it until they find work and are able to get it.
I think the way they are going about things is wrong, and if all the changes Obama wishes to make happen, then the United States will slowly start down it's path towards Communism. Many problems the US faces are similar to problems that Europe is facing or has recently faced and the US is not learning from all of their mistakes. Simply look at all the Lisbon plans that are failing and requiring communist doctrines as international policies that countries are being forced to follow because it puts money in the politicians pockets and in the end they don't actually care about the people.
Not enough people, especially in America, care about real, important news and what is going on in the World. It is really quite sad when the people of Europe know more about America, what goes on there, and the views and opinions of the government than people in America.
i'd like to add one thing here. Something that outrages me is the cost of medical equipment, supplies, and how much is being paid to doctors and the like.
That's fine though, they deserve to have a bit of money because most of them are saving lives. And i also understand that sterile equipment is necessary.
But (for instance) my great grandmother needed an ambulance one day 12 years back. It turns out she just had low blood sugar and felt funny, and passed out. they did not take her to the hospital and all they gave her was insulin because she could not afford her own. The cost for an ambulance to come out with 2 EMS's, and give a lady insulin? -/+ $800. (she showed me the bill and worried how it would get paid for) eight hundred dollars for an ambulance to drive less than a mile, and help an old woman. Wow. and that was back in the 90's i'd probably shit bricks if i saw the bill for an ambulance now!
I agree with some, not all of what is happening. From what i understand 32 million people will be able to get insured without much effort. I really only listened/care about one part of this bill. How will this help extremely poor people? Yeah sure, I'm on a PC right now, but next week we will be homeless because we cannot pay the rent. Why? We got laid off. Why? Because business slowed down. Why? Because everyone is getting laid off and doesn't have the money to buy these things. Why? Because their business slowed down....you get where i am going with this. This vicious cycle has to stop somehow or another. Besides, won't this raise taxes for the American people? Won't that cause more problems and land more people in trouble because they can't even pay their already high taxes/bills?
What i am getting at is, a family (us for example, 2 adults, no kids, no property except a car, no debt. we make less than 10k a year and i have medical problems that need to be attended to before i can work again.) that has close to nothing, is going to be required to pay for health insurance with (from what i understand) 'help' from the government. How is this going to reduce the deficit? Won't this make it worse? I want to know exactly how much they are talking about making us pay. If it's more than $20 a month, we're screwed. And (from what i understand) there is a $3000 fine for not having health insurance (somewhere in this bill... also, i read somewhere that, that part of the bill wont take effect until 2014.) and since we can't pay that either, we'll end up in jail. (correct me if i am wrong, but don't pay fine = jail = lose the only job you could get after 7 months of unemployment = get out after a month with nothing and have to start over.............)
wow. I don't see how this will fix things.
I welcome you to correct and flaws or misunderstandings in my post regarding the bill. Help me understand how this will benefit the country.
As a student living in the Netherlands, I would have been sunk were it not for the universal/socialist health care they have over here. You are immensely selfish if you believe that helping other people is less important than your wallet. I'm sure the system can be taken advantage of, but that's with everything, everywhere. Your tax code can also be taken advantage of, no?
I'm not reading all of this because it's late and I have a headache, probably because I'm here instead of sleeping, but my initial reaction to reading up on it and talking about it, because I didn't catch it on the news, was that it was all kind of shady and misinterpretations are being made, but by who? Because some of us are reading different things and we obviously both/all think we're right. We need some clean, hard lines.
Other: I don't live in the USA
While I agree that this country indeed needs healthcare reform, this bill has nothing to do with healthcare reform. It is entirely about Health INSURANCE reform. This inevitably will cost us dearly in the long run. As has been poiunted out already take a look at Medicare, the USPS, Social Security, and all the other programs like those. Social Security is broke, the USPS loses money every year, Medicare dictates what care and medications you can receive and how often. How can we begin to fathom how the government will be able to make this work when they cannot even begin to fix all the broken programs. The concept and goal of this bill is admirable and needed but the ends DO NOT justify the means. The government has lost sight of wha thtey are there for...they are there to provide the things and services we as a people and the individual states CANNOT.....not those they WILL NOT. Like it or not this country was founded on Christian pronciples found all through the Holy Bible. We as a nation have strayed from those principles and allowed our government to do so as well. That is the reason we are in such a mess. I am greatly afraid of what this will mean for my healthcare in the future. I do not like the thought, right or wrong, of the government telling me what insulin I can use, what meter...what method of insulin delivery....get the picture? I do not likethe thought of the government making the decision as to whether or not Ic an have laser or traditional surgery to resotre my eyesight. Now before you go and tell me that if I don't want to worry about those thing I need to take care of myself I'll say this....my overall average blood sugar ranges from 100 -150 with the normal range being 80-120...I have had 16 eye surgeries and have been problem free for the past 5 years. I have no signs of nerve damage or circullation problems as of yet. The chances of those things ddeveloping in the future are good though. Knowing that I likely will bein a position of having numerous SERIOUS health conditions in the future, I still cannot trust in this bill to take care of me when that time comes. Now...if anyone wants to know how well our government can run healthcare and what it will belike....ask a Veteran who depends on the VA for their healthcare and you will get an idea what we are in for. While I greatly disagree with this bill and the method by which it was crammed down the throats of the American people, we have no one to blame but ourselves for allowing our government to come to the realizzation that it can do whatever it wants regardless of the Constitution, regardless of what the peopple say, and regardless of the consequences we will face down the road. I am not going to worry about those consequences however because I cannot change a thing on my own. We as a nation MUST stand up and be heard. We can change the direction this nation is going, we can vote all those who voted for this bill out of office and, heavin forbid it ever come to this, we can dissolve our government and start over if it becomes absolutely necessary. History repeats itself and I think we are about to live out some of the hard times our gradparents and great-grandparent lived through. Again...I' not worrying because my hope is not put in our government, our President, Our Congress, or any other person or entity on the face of the earth...MY hope is solidly grounded in the the one and priciples our country was founded upon....Jesus Christ and th God of Israel. He has, does, and will continue to meet my every need. I may not have anything I WANT but i know I will have EVERYTHING I need.
the government simply doesn't work anymore, it is run by corporations and actually has no power. if a big company doesn't like something they will simply pay the republicans to get rid of the problem for them.
there should be an option for "Fox News says i hate it, so i do"
So far, its very interesting to see the percentage results. Great to see these polls
Dave M. "If pro- is the opposite of con-, then is progress the opposite of Congress?" Of course! And with this health care "reform," there goes the economy, thank you very much, Congress and President Obama. Just when we had hopes of pulling out of this near depression, you have to shove us back down. We'll remember that, come time to vote. And we'll be reaching into our bag of tricks to stymie you, as we usually do whenever you pass some bad piece of legislation. Remember Prohibition? You'd better.
Serrinatta: Right on, but there is one thing that needs to be cleared up: "I can never quite understand why this country is run by Christians who believe more in the right for a business (insurance) to make money, than the right of someone (the uninsured) to live." This country is NOT run by Christians, it's run by power-hungry whores (male and female) who are being bought off by special interests. Some of these folks are honorable - once they're bought, they stay bought, but others sit on the fence and oink as enticingly as possible so as to attract even more swill into their private troughs.
If it was run by Christians and other altruists, there'd be a lot more privately funded free clinics, medical personnel who treat those who are unable to pay for free during certain days of the week/month, and pharmaceutical companies willing to donate the medicines needed to treat these folks. We have medical missions overseas, why not here as well?
We need some way for this country to take care of our sick. I object to the fact that it's a huge, complicated 2000-page monster that likely has more than a few legalese loopholes, but getting the ball rolling on a healthier population is a step forward. There is no way we'll have it perfect on the first go, but I'll take an imperfect system for now if it's working toward a goal I support.
I'm 25, I work full time, I go to school full time, I have no family support, and can't afford healthcare right now. If I get too sick to work, I'm all KINDS of screwed. Go ahead and tax my paycheck when I'm healthy, so that when I'm sick it won't break me! That's how insurance works in the first place, isn't it? You pay incrementally for something to be covered in case you need it.
Here's an idea: Make educational opportunities for aspiring doctors more available and affordable. Not easier -degrees- mind you (What do you call the guy who graduated last in his class from medical school?), but easier to PAY for degrees, and more available to pursue. Drop the cost of the "product" (medical care by someone who spent a hundred thousand+ for school) and it's more feasible to drop the price to the consumer (patients paying $100 for a guy to shine a flashlight in their throats).
I'm sick of the hateful buzzwords that people throw around when they have been listening to mouth-frothing republican ranting without really seeking information. "Hussein," "Socialist," and I can't forget the video of a woman yelling "Heil Hitler" at a Jewish man who supported healthcare reform, and mocking his inability to pay elevated hospital fees. Anti-this, anti-that, ... It's tiring.
ohhhh god the BS of that post is astounding..... the forefathers never talked to you, how would you know? The problems of their times were not ours, and 10 exclamation points will not help your point. Everyone should shut up about being communist because if you think about it, the only reason communism is bad is because full out communism NEVER works in real life. On paper communism is a wonderful idea, everyone sharing everything equally would be wonderful! but it isn't going to happen. We are not communist, and we never will be, but a little bit of communist ideas can help.... I'm too tired tonight to do a full fledged response to this, but still.... capslock and punctuation does not make you right, neither does bad grammar.
THEY ARE FREAKIN TAKING AWAY OUR FREEDOMS CAN YOU IDIOT WHO SAID "RIGHT CHOICE" NOT SEE THIS?!
"those who can afford it and choose not to get it WILL BE FINED!" this is NOT what the fore-fathers had in mind when they made this nation. And for those of you who think that this is still a Constitutional union...YOU ARE BLIND! the constitution is used about as much as the Bible in school! in other words....ALMOST NEVER! we are so far gone that there is nothing that we can do but return to God and His sovereignty....this is so STUPID that and so Ignorant on their part...either that or they know of some of the consequences that will come of this and yet they still passed it...
AMERICA!!!!!! THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT YOU VOTED INTO CONGRESS!!!! THIS IS YOUR MISTAKE! we are in for a long hard era that will come very close to tyranny if not go so far past tyranny that it will make the other tyrannical governments look like a field of roses!
THAT IS WHAT I THINK OF THE PASSING OF OBAMA CARE! YOU FOOLS!!!!!! how could you do this to your own country? have you not studied your history enough to see that a "free" government NEVER WORKS! a government that forces these things down your throat on threat of fines never work! a -dare I say- COMMUNIST government NEVER works a TYRANNICAL government never works and we are headed towards them ALL! where will we be in ten years??? I dont know...but at the rate we are going I will say that it cant be anywhere good.
I laugh, you Americans finally have something good going, and you're angry about it?
It's a step in the right direction, by no means is it adequate though.
Greetings from Canada, where we already have great health care :D
And most of what you've heard about Canada's HC are myths. Google it.
I would love healthcare reform, just not hurried through like this by such forceful practices. It feels like if we will all have a big row about this later.
Healthcare reform in America is a very good idea, all considered. However, I have no doubt that Congress will find a way to distort and neuter any healthcare bill that passes through the system. It's unfortunate that the only people who are able to get ahead in today's American government are those who can and will manipulate the system for personal gain. It scares me that Congress has gotten so bloated and corrupt that intelligent people like Barack Obama, Joe Biden, and Eric Holder cannot deal with them.
The old saying has finally come to fruition: If pro- is the opposite of con-, then is progress the opposite of Congress?
I am australian and I really dont get what all the fuss is about... Medicare covers everyone here that earns under $55K a year and to be honest, thats about half of the community.
It makes me laugh when I hear people say socialist "ooo errr the commies are going to come and get me!!" Australia has socialist medicine, the UK, Canada, France... Are we all backwards countries?
Australia has a minimum wage of $15.40/hour, government provided healthcare, the option of generic medicine over brand name and were one of the few countries to come out of the GFC relatively unscathed.
Yes this policy isnt perfect and yes YOU are going to have to pay more to get it thru but once its stabilised your children and your childrens children are going to be better off. Stop being so selfish.
I don't think it's quite the right step to make. The US is a welcoming target for illegal immigration as it is. With the health care bill added to that (don't kid yourselves, it does cover illegal aliens, too), legal American citizens will be paying even more to take care of people who don't contribute financially to this country. That being said, I like the idea of nationalized health care in theory. In the condition that we're getting it, though, not so much...
Thanks for taking our health care down a peg. Taking away what people have worked for to be able to afford great health care and get insurance they deserve, we are now grouped together to recieve care and the service we see will be mediocre. Do you need to see a specialist? Can you pay out of your own pocket? And you thought the lines at the post office and DMV were bad, wait until you have those extra 30 million who were uninsured sitting in the waiting room for the doctors office. Better start trying to predict when you get sick or injured, so you can get an appointment at the same time you are sick or injured.
I think its good that we're getting health care reform, because we need it, but it also scares me. My dad has been unable to get health insurance because of medical conditions and I'm happy that he'll be able to get insurance, but my mother is a pediatric radiologist (a doctor, in simpler terms) and the bill could seriously limit my family's income... I know that my family is fairly wealthy because my mom is a doctor, but I'm scared that if the bill is bad enough, my mom may be forced to move... I may have to switch schools if that happens, and all of this is scary to think about. All I can do is hope that Obama managed to pass a bill that won't be too hard on the doctors
...no. Repeal the stupid thing.
ok, so i'm not against having help with healthcare coverage...that's not my issue at all, but we're copying countries that told us that the way we're doing it ia bad idea. and they know because they did it ad it didn't work for them? mr. obama needs to listen to advice and not just assume his way is the best way...
sorry i couldn't hear you all over my universal healthcare
This is fair enough. though usually i don't trust most government plans to do anything that actually works, but I'll give it a try since it's available.
As to why i'd be for it:
1: I work two part time jobs, totalling 36-42 hours a week. Neither give me health care, neither can afford to hire me full time. None of my applications to full time jobs are hiring, even with my 4 year degree.
2: I make less than $15k a year, but am making too much to get on state health care.
3: I have four health conditions. Two of theses are considered diseases. One of which can be terminal. All of them are reasons why any other health insurance places I've applied to have rejected me. (as well as my income).
4: Lastly, (and this is highly my own personal opinion and rather biased to say: ) I can never quite understand why this country is run by Christians who believe more in the right for a business (insurance) to make money, than the right of someone (the uninsured) to live. after all, God gave the gift of life, not the gift of money. Yes, I do know it's more complicated than that. It always is. but, shouldn't it be even simpler than that? Shouldn't God's gifts always come first? I suppose, however, I should say nothing as I've chosen to not be 'religious' but 'spiritual' instead and refuse to be labeled a Christian any longer.
The major problems I see (in no particular order):
1. Pharmaceuticals/medical equipment etc. are all too expensive; they aren't competitive enough.
2. Too many full-up hospitals, not enough clinics for the little stuff.
3. Lawyers.
4. Doctors.
5. Insurance companies (i. e. legalized protection rackets).
Why can't we just extend Medicare to cover more people (I am not currently eligible)? I pay for that all year long, my employer pays over $10k/year for my family (that's in addition to the thousands I pay). Medicare is not perfect, and I admit I seethe a bit when I see a commercial explaining how one can get a "free" scooter with Medicare (not free to me, buddy). And can anyone speaking about cost (either saving or losing) tell me they've actually read (and understood) the thing and they're not just repeating what they've heard from a partisan source? Is that too much to ask? And does anyone know what percentage of the taxes they're paying now are going to help the uninsured in the much more expensive emergency room (I have no idea)? How much money, on average, do the big pharmaceutical and insurance companies spend on lobbying? And the BAR, and the AMA?
Should health care even be competitive? Do you shop around and pick the cheapest doctor?
You do realize that this isn't free? All of this will be paid for in higher taxes. There is no magic pot of money that this comes out of, those who have health care now will pay more for it, and those that don't have it will have to buy it (this just means that you can't be turned down for pre-existing conditions) and the very few that qualify for help with it will have more red tape to wade through than you can imagine.
And for those that can't afford it? Taxes will be increased on everyone else so that they can be taken care of. That's every one who works. From the minimum wage slaves to the 'wealthy' everyone's taxes go up.
Now, I ache to hear of people who can't afford procedures, and I have given $$$ and and done donations to charitable raffles and put money in the containers on the counters at stores and eateries to help people with medical costs. But that's my choice. Now, like it or not your hard earned money will be used to fund medical treatments. And you are expecting the government to handle your money well? These are the same people who ran Freddie and Fannie into the ground, these are the same people who bankrupted California and Kansas, these are the same people who run the Post Office at a loss every year, and AMTRAK is THE ONLY transportation company (government run) to operate at a loss every year.
Really? You really think that this is going to solve the crisis?
I make less than 25,000 a year, and if insurance goes up too much more, I won't be able to afford it (I can now) and I'll be on the dole taking money out of YOUR paycheck thanks to this new health care bill.
What I don't understand is how this is helping the people. For those too poor to afford insurance in the first place, now they will be forced to pay for insurance and if they don't they will go to jail. So they will be loosing money that they don't have. Plus with this bill you can't be denied insurance because of a pre-existing condition, so if I had a heart attack, and I called up the insurance company on my way to the hospital, I'd pay a little money and the insurance companies would have to pay a lot, thus the prices for insurance will go UP to cover all of America's health issues, costing us more money. Plus, being a catholic, it is against my beliefs to support abortion, thus it is against my beliefs to support anyone (financially) who will get an abortion, so I am being forced to pay for all of America's abortions through this bill. WHICH IS AGAINST MY RELIGION. Considering the fact that Nancy Pelosi, and apparently others in congress, are supposedly "devote catholics", it is wrong for them to support this bill. But this bill only allows the Amish and one other religious group to be exempt from this health care because of religious beliefs, why am I still being forced to oblige to this health care when it is against my religion? Not only that, but those who earn little will have to work more to earn more in order to pay for insurance, but the more you earn, the more you pay. So the people will have no extra money to spend. Plus, how can Obama sit there and say that this bill is "for and by the people"? How is it by the people when this bill is NOT SUPPORTED by 2/3 of the country? And how is this for the people if we are being forced to hand over our money for crappier insurance, and higher taxes in order to pay for all of this? We are going to be paying for this mistake for a longggggg time.
This is terrible. This is doing absolutely no good for our country. It's not helping those who can't afford health insurance, it's creating a situation where no one will be able to afford it. This will create a nation dependent on government health benefits, funded by yours truly, the average working American. The dependence will come from those individuals who will initially drop their personal insurance plans and begin to rely on the government to provide for them. This will ultimately result in insurance companies raising their premiums to sustain themselves, so those who can afford their own insurance eventually may not be able to. All the while, they're getting charged double. They pay their own insurance premiums and on top of that, a chunk of their hard earned money goes towards funding the insurance for those who apparently can't help themselves and expect the government to satisfy all their needs.
Hasn't anyone taken an economics class? When all needs are satisfied by a government, our economy dies, people are unmotivated to work, or to generate new ideas that have the potential to improve our economy. People get this mentality, you know, "why work for something when it's free?" Giving an opportunity for the masses to develop this mentality is incredibly dangerous for our economy.
This is terrible, terrible, terrible.
It definitely could be a good thing, but at the moment in the current state of the world and domestic economy, we simply don't have the budget for this. This bill passed at a later date would be perfect, but political advisers are telling the politicians that it is better for their careers to get on board with this bill rather than worry about the effects it could have on the economy.
Also it kinda sucks for kids who want to be doctors. You have to go through eight years of school and then do three to five years of residency training to become a doctor. After all that work it's nice to have a well paying job. This plan will majorly cut a doctors salary.
I think the democrats went about health care reform the completely the wrong way. Instead of just increasing taxes on everyone so they can insure everyone with a plan that will bankrupt, just like medicare, medicade, USPS, cash for clunkers, etc., they should focus more on tort reform to bring down the cost of health care so insurance companies can lower their premiums and afford to accept more people with pre-existing conditions. This would help many more people and companies afford healthcare without having a whole huge bureaucracy determining what medicine and what procedures you're allowed or not allowed to have.
My opposition to this starts before ideology even enters into the picture. Very simply put, the federal government cannot engage in this sort of thing without effing it up. Why is this? Because government cannot regulate itself: if a program becomes too bloated and bureaucratic, it can't shrink itself. There has been no long-term success with social security, medicaid, welfare, or any other social program (and of course, we all know how lovely the post office is), so how could anyone think that this will magically succeed? There are ways to fix the health care system without getting the government involved at all, but that's not the sort of thing that gets you re-elected.
It's a nice thought, but it still doesn't prevent people from abusing the system. For a real life example, I know someone who shot themselves in the foot years ago to avoid being drafted, and now gets more money a month from the government than people I know who have been legitimately injured during service to the point where they can't work. This man is fully healed and capable, he just doesn't want to work so he mooches off of government care. I don't care what system you create, people like him will always exist and will always be the biggest problem. Ergo, I don't think much will change except that we'll bankrupt our medical providers (already starting, ask anyone who owns a clinic). That will have to swing back into place eventually, but by then doctors will be so rare that we'll be right back to only the upper class really receiving care. In my opinion (you don't have to share this, just a thought) history has proven that the more a government meddles with things like this, the worse the situation gets. Following that, I vote the government removes its sticky fingers and lets the medical community act like any other service industry. Eventually the prices will drop because there will be less red tape to take care of and people will be paying for what they receive, instead of getting medicine that costs so much to make for $5 a bottle. Don't forget, doctors have to pay for their degrees and supplies like anyone else.
Nate,
Instead of complaining about it, why not get a job and work over these years?
If you have a job, but still went bankrupt, then obviously you made some bad choices in your life, and you should not try to live outside your means.
Even if you have made mistakes, there are already many government programs set up to help you get food, shelter, even medicare, and back up on your feet.
If you have medical problems that keep you from working, get on disability.
Don't expect the government to come wipe your nose for you when it's running, do it yourself. Work hard and be dedicated and you can bring yourself out of the mess you're in, and it'll feel a lot better than relying on politicians for more and more things in your life.
I'm not heartless, I just believe that if people make smart decisions and worked hard, there would be a lot less problems with their lives.
might i also mention that im only 15 years old, and have serious healthcare problems. i was born with a cleft lip and pallet, and in addition to that a heart defect. my first surgery took place when i was only a few weeks old.
I'm a very healthy 22 year old who recently had my health care application to Blue Shield denied for the following reasons (verbatim from the letter, with my notes in [brackets]):
-Migraine treated with Toradol and Fioricet [I have had a total of two migraines in my entire life]
-[Mild] Allergies [to cats, dogs, and dust-mites] treated with over the counter medication
-Hypothyroid [an incredibly mild, and very common condition among women] treated with Levothyroxine.
Apparently, all of those count as "preexisting conditions." So, yeah, I'm more than a little happy this bill is passing.
LISTSON WE NEED THE HEALTHCARE PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO HAVE HAD 15+ SURGERIES NEED THIS STUFF PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST THIS NEED TO RECONSIDER OTHERS WHO MIGHT ACTUALLY NEED IT. CAN YOU THINK OF A BETTER SOLUTION. IF NOT THEN SHUT UP
Obama is a legend, I cannot give the man enough respect, I think he is far and above the best President the USA has had in recent years. However, he will at some point make a mistake, no one person on this planet is perfect. But he really is moving in the right direction.
I really don'r understand why the Republicans are so set against a health bill to help those who are in need, and John McCain can just piss off the grumpy old so and so. I have respect for his military career, but none what so ever for his political career. A compilation of blunders, poor speeches and shocking oratory ability.
And what is the price of doing the right thing? Can you put a price on the relief of suffering that has been experienced by those who this bill will benefit? This is a major step in the right direction, big time.
My favourite section from the whole debate over this was when I heard a Republican claiming that if Stephen Hawking was British he would have been failed by the NHS (our National Health Service), despite he IS British, and has gone on record say that he owes his life to the care and service given by the NHS.....*cough* epic fail *cough*
p.s. Well played John Doe, well played
p.p.s. how can you find fault with some one who publicly called Kanye a Jackass? The man is a legend!
Secession is starting to look REEEEEELY good right now.
Anyone who uses the "socialist" buzzword against health care clearly has no idea what they're talking about.
Wish Obama would work on the economy. If so many wouldn't have lost their jobs there wouldn't be so many uninsured.
Besides, insuring everyone is only a small part of the problem. Who is everyone going to see? There aren't enough doctors as it is.
I'd gladly take socialism over what we had before.
My family and I have been bankrupt and barely living for years now, I thank God that I can finally receive medical care without making my family suffer more.
There are people dying because of debt, but I'm grateful because I was able to find a hospital to give me their insurance program...but it's not enough, and god-dammit, I'm tired of suffering!
Obama finally kept one of his bigger promises, and not a second too soon!