I do a lot of Action Script due to the nature of the sites & the applications that I build to run within browsers. Therefore, my vote went to the most close choice, the 4th. I like the combination of the 4 'languages' AS/HTML/JS/CSS plus XML for the feed. It is a kind of freedom that I would like to keep in the forthcoming years. Cheers.
I don't think this two languages should compete frangois is right flash is a different language than HTML/CSS(its purely for markup). Maybe Javascript & Flash actionscript sounds better.
Anyway having minimal working knowledge for the two.. I'll vote for the one with JS simply because not all people use Flash like me, i hate them. MOST of the flash pages, even banners out on the wild are really unoptimized & slow loading.
I'm sorry, Stephen, but you can develop fully dynamic sites with HTML, CSS2/3 and JavaScript. They also have the benefits of being more accessible (to alternative methods like Braille browsers, or to search engines, or to iPhone and other modern non-Flash-supporting systems), requiring fewer SEO dirty tricks to place well, taking far less bandwidth and other resources
Perhaps you stopped paying attention about 1997, as your comment implies? There have been several revolutions and evolutions in Web development since then. Welcome to current reality... it would be nice to have you here, too.
ditto re frangois
Apparently this poll is being read almost entirely by CSS devotees. I too am what might be called a 'full-Flash site developer'. My growth as a developer has paralleled the growth and maturation of the Flash Platform. And I agree it's all about choosing the right tool for the job.
But having said this, outside of delivering audio and video in the mobile space, HTML5-CSS is simply not going to 'replace' flash any time soon.
AndyDeGroo - 14 years ago
There is no such thing as Flash versus HTML+CSS.
Designing web sites/applications is more like baking a cake - one can bake a perfectly looking and tasty cake (site) without cream (Flash) but on the other side one can bake a cake out of cream, it will be sweet and fatty.
I prefer using this cream (Flash) only as decoration and there is always a fallback for those who are on diet (without flash)
Victor Chan - 14 years ago
Sad to see that many people are mis-informed about technologies. I develop in both HTML/CSS + ActionScript 3.
People seem very polarized based on their specific biases. I'm sorry but these are all opinions that won't sway me based on the context of what needs to be built for a client's objective. Kudos to those who indicate that what should be used 'depends'.
There are pros/cons to both sides and I see them fairly balanced. The *only* reason why I see it tipping in favour of HTML/CSS/JS is because one behemoth of a company decides to prevent ActionScript from running on their platform. Most users do not care about the technology so long as the user experience is acceptable or beyond. That's my opinion as an advanced practitioner in both. If you're not fully-versed in both technologies, I see your statement as clouded, and just adding to the noise.
All love to HTML + CSS and hate Flash. There are so many advantages to HTML/CSS based website over Flash .... faster, easier, SEO, Accessibility to name a few.
frangois - 14 years ago
So funny to read things like "Working with HTML/CSS/JS in text editor such as Notepad++ is delighful for me , as it gives me the raw and pure feeling, if that makes sense to you guys.f" :
- having fun typing HTML markup rings a bell of "mental disease" in my mind, it's a crap job, sorry to break your dreams,
- use vi, Notepad++ is a toy,
- HTML/CSS are no programming languages, these are "markup languages". Any LaTeX power-user wouldn't dare to call himself a "developer". It has nothing to do with development. Don't try to judge Flash vs HTML, it's a programming language, it's out of your personal scope.
I code tiny bit-level optimized operations for rotating matrixes in 3D spaces in Flash/AS3 with vi, and this doesn't give me "the raw and pure feeling", this makes me think I still have a lot of languages to discover, I know I know nothing.
kalleherler - 14 years ago
I really try to avoid flash in my work, but this will still not stop me from resorting to flash for videos and interconnectivity with flash heavy sites.
I wouldn't write a flash item unless there was no other way to do what I need to do, which is very rarely the case. I'd put down a lot of extra work just to avoid the bastard of flash.
And as people above has said, flash is facing the same fate as most plug-ins have.
frangois - 14 years ago
I'm a full-Flash site developer, I'm your worst nightmare. I'm part of the very happy-few working in the big agencies that produces the very-few real full-flash sites (with SEO ok, loading fast, and impressive features, and without cpu over-loading). I have a couple of FWA websites (www.thefwa.com).
2% full-Flash websites seems realistic, and I must add 50% of these full-Flash are total crap. This percentage is probably the same since years now, so it doesn't prove any decline of Flash. I try to teach how to do right to these crap developers instead, be positive.
But that 1% websites are kicking ass, and are adding value to the brand that are paying for these. Sorry HTML5 zealots, Flash still kicks ass when used by the right people.
Don't say "Idon't use Flash coz..." :
- "... it's old" : stupid, your OS is developed in C, aged 25+ years old,
- "... it's slow" : stupid, there's crap developers on every platform/language, I work on a netbook,
- "... it's unsecure" : stupid, everything is unsecure, PHP is way more dangerous i.e.
- "... it's closed-source" : it's not - 90% of the tools are open-source, the Flash player sources have been given to Mozilla Foundation,
- "... SEO sucks" : Stupid, I do this every day,
Most of Flash haters I see are usually frustrated by the tool : too hard, too complicated. Don't stay stuck in your JS world, because learning Flash is a good way to grasp on more evolved development practices : object-oriented, design-patterns, static typing, real algorithms (pathfinding, graph theory, BSP, and so on), some C/C++ (via Alchemy), and cutting-edge maths that can help you continue your career in video-game production (tile-based games, 3d maths, etc).
I cannot use JS, it took me 3 days to learn JQuery and to be able to produce Flash-like websites based solely on it. It's too limited, too boring, and it's impossible to respect generally established best-practices (gimme a reliable MVC framework in JS, a real debugger and I'll use it).
I'm a front-end developer, HTML/CSS/JS on various development frameworks, but to create a truly interactive web experience today (not tomorrow, whenever HTML5 etc catches up), Flash/AS3 is the only ubiquitously available way. Let's see you develop a site like one of these without Flash/AS3:
As for SEO considerations, using something like the Gaia framework allows for deep-linking, extensive content control and rapid development.
I understand there are tons of reasons to guide clients towards HTML/CSS/JS solutions, but when it's the difference between winning some high-end client or taking a pass, if Flash is the only way to get there then take that train!
Sidd - 14 years ago
Flash is waiting to die.
Apple sensed that sometime back and actually contributed to it also.
HTML 5 + CSS3 + JS ( jQuery ..) and later versions of the same will provide all the necessary fancy stuff that flash does, with lots of it already available.
And what about SEO, flash has got a huge problem with that.
Working with HTML/CSS/JS in text editor such as Notepad++ is delighful for me , as it gives me the raw and pure feeling, if that makes sense to you guys.
90% of the stuff I do on the web is HTML/CSS/JavaScript but I have used Flash for photographers and video. The photographers want what little additional protection from taking the images that Flash provides and Flash is still the most universally supported method for video on the web.
90% of the stuff I do on the web is HTML/CSS/JavaScript but I have used Flash for photographers and video. The photographers want what little additional protection from taking the images that Flash provides and Flash is still the most universally supported method for video on the web.
html - css - jquery - maybe flash here & there in a very very small way - i have substituted flash with jquery when possible
malihu - 14 years ago
Depends on project.
It's not the tool that makes the developer. That said, Flash is one of the best development/design tools ever created and that is why so many people use it.
I typically develop only with HTML/CSS/etc. However, the interactive design firm I work for is a huge fan of Flash (I don't think there is a single project without something Flash/AS3 in it). It is entirely dependent on the type of web development you're doing.
Brad - 14 years ago
Totally shocked so many are saying no flash. I thought I was alone on this one. Very glad to see CSS/HTML only! Go CSS!
Flash is good in different aspects like games and online applications. When creating websites speed is a major factor that needs to be considered. A little flash wouldn't be a sin ;)
Stephan - 14 years ago
I am sorry, but i think the question is wrong.. you can't develop a website with only HTML and CSS (well maybe super static 1997 websites) I am not a experienced developer myself, but in my opinion each project needs a different solution. (This question suggest a certain competition)For example, with informative and social oriented websites you could go for HTML/CSS (and PHP or something alike) and for a promotional and interactive websites you could go for Flash (ActionScript, PaperVision). So dev's should try to be flexible and be able to work with pretty much any code.
Shane H. - 14 years ago
Depends on the target market.
People hate on Flash but they really should hate on the inferior coding practices half the Flash "coders" have. Shouldn't blame the program because of the user, that's like saying you were trying to start a car with a popsicle stick and then complaining the car sucks because it wouldn't start...
Each language has it's place. JS is evolving but still isn't to the level of Flash ease of use/speed of coding. HTML5 definitely hasn't evolved enough nor fully released ( http://ishtml5readyyet.com/ ), CSS3 isn't fully supported cross browser (yea with workarounds...). iPad is only a staple within the Tech community and has not evolved into a full market, yet.
P.S. No website is fully secure, if they want in, they'll get in...
I never used flash for main functionality in the past, because of accessibility with scripting disabled as one main factor. At this point I don't use flash at all.
As much as I love to code in AS3 w/ OOP these days I try to avoid it. As a developer I found it's easier to update html and js files as oppose to having to dig up some old fla.
I use HTML, CSS and JavaScript, trying to keep my knowledge and skills updated. I don't use Flash because of SEO, tho I like effects that can be done with it. Still, I think much of it can be also done with JavaScript or similar.
I only use HTML, CSS und JS (near almost jQuery). Why? 1.I don't know much about Flash and ActionScript. 2. For me Flash seems to be like an alien element in a website, a movie which simulates to be a website.
I do a lot of Action Script due to the nature of the sites & the applications that I build to run within browsers. Therefore, my vote went to the most close choice, the 4th. I like the combination of the 4 'languages' AS/HTML/JS/CSS plus XML for the feed. It is a kind of freedom that I would like to keep in the forthcoming years. Cheers.
I don't think this two languages should compete frangois is right flash is a different language than HTML/CSS(its purely for markup). Maybe Javascript & Flash actionscript sounds better.
Anyway having minimal working knowledge for the two.. I'll vote for the one with JS simply because not all people use Flash like me, i hate them. MOST of the flash pages, even banners out on the wild are really unoptimized & slow loading.
I'm sorry, Stephen, but you can develop fully dynamic sites with HTML, CSS2/3 and JavaScript. They also have the benefits of being more accessible (to alternative methods like Braille browsers, or to search engines, or to iPhone and other modern non-Flash-supporting systems), requiring fewer SEO dirty tricks to place well, taking far less bandwidth and other resources
Perhaps you stopped paying attention about 1997, as your comment implies? There have been several revolutions and evolutions in Web development since then. Welcome to current reality... it would be nice to have you here, too.
HTML/CSS/JS all the way. I use flash for embedding music and video, but I'll probably start using HTML 5 for that fairly soon.
ditto re frangois
Apparently this poll is being read almost entirely by CSS devotees. I too am what might be called a 'full-Flash site developer'. My growth as a developer has paralleled the growth and maturation of the Flash Platform. And I agree it's all about choosing the right tool for the job.
But having said this, outside of delivering audio and video in the mobile space, HTML5-CSS is simply not going to 'replace' flash any time soon.
There is no such thing as Flash versus HTML+CSS.
Designing web sites/applications is more like baking a cake - one can bake a perfectly looking and tasty cake (site) without cream (Flash) but on the other side one can bake a cake out of cream, it will be sweet and fatty.
I prefer using this cream (Flash) only as decoration and there is always a fallback for those who are on diet (without flash)
Sad to see that many people are mis-informed about technologies. I develop in both HTML/CSS + ActionScript 3.
People seem very polarized based on their specific biases. I'm sorry but these are all opinions that won't sway me based on the context of what needs to be built for a client's objective. Kudos to those who indicate that what should be used 'depends'.
There are pros/cons to both sides and I see them fairly balanced. The *only* reason why I see it tipping in favour of HTML/CSS/JS is because one behemoth of a company decides to prevent ActionScript from running on their platform. Most users do not care about the technology so long as the user experience is acceptable or beyond. That's my opinion as an advanced practitioner in both. If you're not fully-versed in both technologies, I see your statement as clouded, and just adding to the noise.
All love to HTML + CSS and hate Flash. There are so many advantages to HTML/CSS based website over Flash .... faster, easier, SEO, Accessibility to name a few.
So funny to read things like "Working with HTML/CSS/JS in text editor such as Notepad++ is delighful for me , as it gives me the raw and pure feeling, if that makes sense to you guys.f" :
- having fun typing HTML markup rings a bell of "mental disease" in my mind, it's a crap job, sorry to break your dreams,
- use vi, Notepad++ is a toy,
- HTML/CSS are no programming languages, these are "markup languages". Any LaTeX power-user wouldn't dare to call himself a "developer". It has nothing to do with development. Don't try to judge Flash vs HTML, it's a programming language, it's out of your personal scope.
I code tiny bit-level optimized operations for rotating matrixes in 3D spaces in Flash/AS3 with vi, and this doesn't give me "the raw and pure feeling", this makes me think I still have a lot of languages to discover, I know I know nothing.
I really try to avoid flash in my work, but this will still not stop me from resorting to flash for videos and interconnectivity with flash heavy sites.
I wouldn't write a flash item unless there was no other way to do what I need to do, which is very rarely the case. I'd put down a lot of extra work just to avoid the bastard of flash.
And as people above has said, flash is facing the same fate as most plug-ins have.
I'm a full-Flash site developer, I'm your worst nightmare. I'm part of the very happy-few working in the big agencies that produces the very-few real full-flash sites (with SEO ok, loading fast, and impressive features, and without cpu over-loading). I have a couple of FWA websites (www.thefwa.com).
2% full-Flash websites seems realistic, and I must add 50% of these full-Flash are total crap. This percentage is probably the same since years now, so it doesn't prove any decline of Flash. I try to teach how to do right to these crap developers instead, be positive.
But that 1% websites are kicking ass, and are adding value to the brand that are paying for these. Sorry HTML5 zealots, Flash still kicks ass when used by the right people.
Don't say "Idon't use Flash coz..." :
- "... it's old" : stupid, your OS is developed in C, aged 25+ years old,
- "... it's slow" : stupid, there's crap developers on every platform/language, I work on a netbook,
- "... it's unsecure" : stupid, everything is unsecure, PHP is way more dangerous i.e.
- "... it's closed-source" : it's not - 90% of the tools are open-source, the Flash player sources have been given to Mozilla Foundation,
- "... SEO sucks" : Stupid, I do this every day,
Most of Flash haters I see are usually frustrated by the tool : too hard, too complicated. Don't stay stuck in your JS world, because learning Flash is a good way to grasp on more evolved development practices : object-oriented, design-patterns, static typing, real algorithms (pathfinding, graph theory, BSP, and so on), some C/C++ (via Alchemy), and cutting-edge maths that can help you continue your career in video-game production (tile-based games, 3d maths, etc).
I cannot use JS, it took me 3 days to learn JQuery and to be able to produce Flash-like websites based solely on it. It's too limited, too boring, and it's impossible to respect generally established best-practices (gimme a reliable MVC framework in JS, a real debugger and I'll use it).
I'm a front-end developer, HTML/CSS/JS on various development frameworks, but to create a truly interactive web experience today (not tomorrow, whenever HTML5 etc catches up), Flash/AS3 is the only ubiquitously available way. Let's see you develop a site like one of these without Flash/AS3:
http://ff0000.com/
http://www.spiderwickchronicles.com/
http://www.sectionseven.com/
As for SEO considerations, using something like the Gaia framework allows for deep-linking, extensive content control and rapid development.
I understand there are tons of reasons to guide clients towards HTML/CSS/JS solutions, but when it's the difference between winning some high-end client or taking a pass, if Flash is the only way to get there then take that train!
Flash is waiting to die.
Apple sensed that sometime back and actually contributed to it also.
HTML 5 + CSS3 + JS ( jQuery ..) and later versions of the same will provide all the necessary fancy stuff that flash does, with lots of it already available.
And what about SEO, flash has got a huge problem with that.
Working with HTML/CSS/JS in text editor such as Notepad++ is delighful for me , as it gives me the raw and pure feeling, if that makes sense to you guys.
90% of the stuff I do on the web is HTML/CSS/JavaScript but I have used Flash for photographers and video. The photographers want what little additional protection from taking the images that Flash provides and Flash is still the most universally supported method for video on the web.
90% of the stuff I do on the web is HTML/CSS/JavaScript but I have used Flash for photographers and video. The photographers want what little additional protection from taking the images that Flash provides and Flash is still the most universally supported method for video on the web.
Flash is horrible to work with. Jquery > Flash
html - css - jquery - maybe flash here & there in a very very small way - i have substituted flash with jquery when possible
Depends on project.
It's not the tool that makes the developer. That said, Flash is one of the best development/design tools ever created and that is why so many people use it.
I typically develop only with HTML/CSS/etc. However, the interactive design firm I work for is a huge fan of Flash (I don't think there is a single project without something Flash/AS3 in it). It is entirely dependent on the type of web development you're doing.
Totally shocked so many are saying no flash. I thought I was alone on this one. Very glad to see CSS/HTML only! Go CSS!
Flash is good in different aspects like games and online applications. When creating websites speed is a major factor that needs to be considered. A little flash wouldn't be a sin ;)
I am sorry, but i think the question is wrong.. you can't develop a website with only HTML and CSS (well maybe super static 1997 websites) I am not a experienced developer myself, but in my opinion each project needs a different solution. (This question suggest a certain competition)For example, with informative and social oriented websites you could go for HTML/CSS (and PHP or something alike) and for a promotional and interactive websites you could go for Flash (ActionScript, PaperVision). So dev's should try to be flexible and be able to work with pretty much any code.
Depends on the target market.
People hate on Flash but they really should hate on the inferior coding practices half the Flash "coders" have. Shouldn't blame the program because of the user, that's like saying you were trying to start a car with a popsicle stick and then complaining the car sucks because it wouldn't start...
Each language has it's place. JS is evolving but still isn't to the level of Flash ease of use/speed of coding. HTML5 definitely hasn't evolved enough nor fully released ( http://ishtml5readyyet.com/ ), CSS3 isn't fully supported cross browser (yea with workarounds...). iPad is only a staple within the Tech community and has not evolved into a full market, yet.
P.S. No website is fully secure, if they want in, they'll get in...
I never used flash for main functionality in the past, because of accessibility with scripting disabled as one main factor. At this point I don't use flash at all.
Purely HTML, CSS and JS. Mostly as I don't know Flash and I believe that HTML, CSS and JS are more 'pure' if that makes sense?
I only use flash for additional illustration, complementing the html/css code
As much as I love to code in AS3 w/ OOP these days I try to avoid it. As a developer I found it's easier to update html and js files as oppose to having to dig up some old fla.
I use HTML, CSS and JavaScript, trying to keep my knowledge and skills updated. I don't use Flash because of SEO, tho I like effects that can be done with it. Still, I think much of it can be also done with JavaScript or similar.
I only use HTML, CSS und JS (near almost jQuery). Why? 1.I don't know much about Flash and ActionScript. 2. For me Flash seems to be like an alien element in a website, a movie which simulates to be a website.
Totally agree with thatpeskylimey... that's the word!
Long time ago I built full-Flash sites, but it's a horror to visitors, and not fun to build either
Now it's only HTML & CSS, maybe here and there a Flash object if there really are no alternatives for it.
HTML/CSS/JS but that's not to say Flash doesn't have its uses such as for videos or games.
Entire Flash sites are the suck.
A good developer knows when, where and how to use Flash responsibly and effectively.
flash should die (e.g. in a fire) ! soon!
HTML5 to come!
What RusselUresti said
Flash is so 1337, use Javascript instead.
Only HTML 5 + CSS + JS.
Why? iPad, SEO, Flash is old and slow, Flash is insecure
I try to replicate everything using javascript if possible, but if the need arises i'll use flash. html/css for everything.
I only use HTML/CSS/JS, but that's only because I don't know ActionScript. If I knew it, I think I would use it more often.
in the past i did some Flash sites, but now a try to avoid it.