I blame the players greed on this walk-out. The amounts they demand for their contracts is hard to imagine the owners even make a proof-it. If they could roll back the salary by half and quit treating them like prema-donna's just think. States having teams would not have to pay so call sin taxes to pay for their stadiums that house their sport. Look it up just about every state taxpayer pays to maintain or upgrade their stadium. Why will they not think of the fans whom support them and quit being so selfish? I for one am tired of it and am canceling my orders of tickets. I never realized I payed as a hard working middle class worker for them to have luxury & whin. Do they need some cheese? Sorry guys I can not afford. This use to be the a great American sport not any more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
tapps57 - 13 years ago
Greed. It is all about the MONEY. I WAS a baseball and football fan. Because of salaries and everything in the corpoate world: I can not afford a cheap ticket to a game. It is about them: salaries, houses, cars. It has nothing to do with fans. I do not watch baseball or football and I never will. The greed is to painful for me to ever consider myself a fan.
Trenton - 13 years ago
1 its not employees and employers as the nfl has admitted their a partnership godell and the nflpa has said that and the courts ruled that way. thats why their allowed to have a cba if it wasnt a partnership the cba would be illegal and the rules the nfl has would be anti trust law violations. 2nd the owners did cut it down to 325 million your right but you forget they said any growth besides the 1.5% they said the nfl would gain in the next year and so on theygot all the profits of it. So if the income this year was 100 mil they say it'll increase to 101.5 million next year. However say it grows by alot more and lets say 20% unrealistic but if it did that would be 120 mil the nflpa gets half of the 1.5 mil gained than the nfl gets the other half and the other extra gained. So in a billion dollar industry lets say 1 billion profit this year with the 1.5% increase they say they'll make 1,015,000,000 but lets say they grow by 3.5% thats 1,035,000,000 the players would get 7,500,000 where as the nfl would get 26,500,000 lets see so the nflpa gets rounded up 72% of the profits yah that seems real fair. And remember it was the nfl's deal that offered that. So anyone that says their last offer was good is terrible at math and knows nothing. thats why the nflpa didnt take the deal. they would have taken the first offer of giving the nfl an extra 1 billion to make it 2 billion of the top than splitting that but the nflpa just wanted proof that the nfl was losing money. The nfl said trust us where losing money. Nflpa says prove it where not gonna take your word for it. The nfl says you should trust us because you know us. Yah in my opinion i would say no prove it or we walk. Thats what the nflpa did. Instead of being cornered by the nfl because they controlled them for so long the nflpa said no where partners and start treating us like it our we walk. The nfl said well thats what you want to do, than do it because we dont believe you really will. When they did the nfl says well that was their plan blah blah blah. All the nfl seems to be doing is acting like 6 year olds crying about who broke the toy. I say fess up that you offered a shitty deal and didnt wanna show proof it was shitty. Put it this way if you had a million dollars to invest and their was a company that wanted you to invest. Would you just say yah sure why not or would you look into the company and make sure you have proof the company is positive and making profit so you make profit. Thats what the players wanted if the nfl wanted more money cause they where losing money you just like the players would want proof of that loss not just some guys words. thats all i have to say rebuttle it whatever you want but actually use real stuff dont say stuff about employees and employeers when thats what they aren't show you have some smarts and arent ignorant. Thanks
mick - 13 years ago
Let's fans strike. Both sides are incredibly greedy. Figure what you make (or I) and figure what the average NFL player makes. For my wife and I to go to a game probably costs $200 or more.
Fans STRIKE!!
J G - 13 years ago
Billionar buisness owners tring to squeeze yet another penny from thier employees (granted alot of millionars). I just hope these players are prepaired finacialy and not forced to return giving up even more. I don't go to games to see the owners or thier stadiums. The players are what i want to see.
The owners have been planning for at least this since they acquired the "lockout insurance" in their last TV contract. They have a game plan and they are sticking to it.
The lockout is just another reminder that there are more important things in life.
jdeere - 13 years ago
So as I see it some people are against the owners and then some against the players. Well as a union member (retired) please let me say this. I don't ever recall seeing anything about the owners locking out the players. It was always the union spouting that line. So the union disbands and 5 minutes later some high priced players (that are under contract) go to court and seek an injunction against the owners to not lock them out. Does this ring true? Maybe the players should try and get another line of work. But then that might take some learning to be able to do that.
So in closing, let the players play their silly game and remain on strike. Gee I wonder if they will qualify for food stamps? There are always other things to do on a Sunday other than sit in front of the tube.
frank - 13 years ago
The owners have to run this as a business. If the players do not think they are making enough they are welcome to work for 40 thousand a year like everyone else.
TIM - 13 years ago
...And in case you didn't hear,the only team in the League that is owned publicly (the packers) have gone from making $30 million profit a year to only $10 million last year. The union knows they MUST give back to the League to keep it healty and keep those big bucks flowing to the players. They just hope their Mommy Judge Doty will force the owners to NOT look out for the future of the League but allow the League to continue to faulter,until in the next CBA the owners will be forced to really take a stand and maybe we really lose a whole year of games or worse !
TIM - 13 years ago
...And...In case some of you don't know,the old CBA has a clause in it that makes the owners give Leage wide independently audited info to the players union !!! The owners always give all the info the union needs to know how well the entire League is doing. What the union wants is totally unreasonable. They want detailed info about everthing every indivigual team has done over the past 10 years,so they can nit pick on every owner and hold every little thing over their heads ,like paying relatives to work for them and having private jets etc,
The union knew they had 0 chance to get that demand ,that was just a PR move to TRY to make the owners look bad,but it backfired on them.
Why did it backfire you ask,because the owners agreed to let a independedt auditing firm agreed to by both the owners and unioin to do a total audit on the League and report all finding to the union. The union never responded to that more than generous offer but ran right away to decetify !!! The union has not one leg to stand on in this matter !
Robert - 13 years ago
The NFL media machine blurrrrs the truth on almost every issue. Fans really don't understand the real truth about the way players have been treated old and new - though the present players have it much better than the old. Still, nowbody should be "drafted" no matter how much one might think it would be worth it....the owners scream "free markets" we are "capitalist" but use a no freedom system for rookies, and limited freedom for vets...smarmy is the best way to describe owners!
people are dumb - 13 years ago
Anyone who sides with the owners in this debate have really lost their minds. How much money can 1 person need? The owners make on average 30-50 million per year and they claim to be losing money. Yes Peyton Manning makes 20 million a season, but he is only 1 player. Peyton also has to pay his agent, taxes, and many other fees we do not see. ALL NFL players have to pay taxes and fees that we do not see. After it is said and done most players only see half of their checks.
The owners also get to sit in their cozy chairs, while the slaves(I mean NFL players) make them their money. Owners have 0 health risks, and very little financial risk, players have millions of risks. Most players can barely walk after they finish football. HOW MUCH IS WALKING WORTH TO YOU? 1 hundred thousand? or would you want 10 million?
TIM - 13 years ago
Of course it is almost all the players union's fault. ! The only thing you can blame the owners for is realizing that they needed more money off the top to keep the League healthy by providing for more stadia to be built etc etc etc., so they wanted the CBA changed . But they offered great compromises to the union to make it more than fair.
The owners compromised on at least 8 issues and put those offers to the players union and were willing to compromise even more on those and all issues, ! BUT the union never responded to ANY of those written offers even once during the moderated negotiations !!!
It was clear from day one that the union felt it could get a better deal by running to it's Mommy (Judge Doty),rather than negotiating like men. The union only went to the negotiations for public relations purposes to try to get some of the gullable fans behind them. But it is crystal clear that they NEVER had any intentions of bargaining in good faith.
It now seems clear that the head of the players union (Smith) has an inferiority complex of some kind and wants to make a name for himself and be spoken of with Gene Upshaw type respect in the future,so he is refusing to bargain in good faith and hoping his Mommy(Judge Doty) will hand him some sort of victory that he can take to his players and they will adore him ,lol.
The owners can't lose,it's only a matter of how much they win this by. The players and the union "leader" have already lost and the players would do well to be very worried about voting in a man who is more worried about his reputation than in getting a good and fair deal,like the owners were willing to give him in negotiations !
joel hudlow - 13 years ago
The percentage of profit has been declining.Teams that people like to bust on like the redskins squeeze their fans by the balls.8 dollars for a beer 5 for a hot dog that sells at 7 11 for less than a buck.Than our owner has to give some of his profit to the other owners who dont make money.No one seems to realize teams like buffalo and jacksonville and ther are some others are subsidised by the rest of the league.I dont see one poor player just alot of fools living the high life and screwing the fans.Your telling me a team cant go after the signing bonus of someone like haynesworth.How about plaxico burress.Signs a new deal shoots himself goes to jail and he gets to keep the money the teams are stuck by the cap .If they have the money and a player in free agency to replace him hes still on the cap.The team would have to cut a couple of the little guys to fill his spot.The players should never have gotten a deal this good.If the owners only want 400 million back and are gonna put 90 million in a fund for retired players they should have took it and kept their mouths shut.Sonny jurgenson played for 20000 they had no rules to protect the qb.Players were much tougher mentally back in the day.They paved the way for the money the new guys make and they want the owners to pay that on top of the 60 percent profit the players get.The players need a good shellacking im tired of their lying crying rants.The owners made the investment if they bought their stadium thats why they make more money than the owners that didnt and then they have to share that money with owners that either dont know how to get more out of their franchise or dont care to.Look i like my neighbor but im not helping him pay his bills.The fact that they do share should give them the 60 percent.What about the bath they took on nfl europe .They lost their asses.Some players made here from the risk they took.How many cities want an expansion team.It will never happen at a 60 40 split going the wrong way.No other business operates this way.Heres an idea why doesnt a top player like peyton manning get 40 percent of the profit from his jersey after 5 years and give 50% back to the retirees.Would never happen .Well if teams didnt share revenue alot of players wouldnt make big money and alot of others would make alot less than 400,000.Ill never make that kinda money total in my life.Screw the players we already knew the owners were greedy seeing they only get 40 percent for of the profits from all those headaches ita a wonder we have football or do we
joel hudlow - 13 years ago
The percentage of profit has been declining.Teams that people like to bust on like the redskins squeeze their fans by the balls.* dollars for a beer 5 for a hot dog that sells at 7 11 for less than a buck.Than our owner has to give some of his profit to the other owners who dont make money.No one seems to realize teams like buffalo and jacksonville and ther are some others are subsidised by the rest of the league.I dont see one poor player just alot of fools living the high life and screwing the fans.Your telling me a team cant go after the signing bonus of someone like haynesworth.How about plaxico burress.Signs a new deal shoots himself goes to jail and he gets to keep the money the teams are stuck by the cap .If they have the money and a player in free agency to replace him hes still on the cap.The team would have to cut a couple of the little guys to fill his spot.The players should never have gotten a deal this good.If the owners only want 400 million back and are gonna put 90 million in a fund for retired players they should have took it and kept their mouths shut.Sonny jurgenson played for 20000 they had no rules to protect the qb.Players were much tougher mentally back in the day.They paved the way for the money the new guys make and they want the owners to pay that on top of the 60 percent profit the players get.The players need a good shellacking im tired of their lying crying rants.The owners made the investment if they bought their stadium thats why they make more money than the owners that didnt and then they have to share that money with owners that either dont know how to get more out of their franchise or dont care to.Look i like my neighbor but im not helping him pay his bills.The fact that they do share should give them the 60 percent.What about the bath they took on nfl europe .They lost their asses.Some players made here from the risk they took.How many cities want an expansion team.It will never happen at a 60 40 split going the wrong way.No other business operates this way.Heres an idea why doesnt a top player like peyton manning get 40 percent of the profit from his jersey after 5 years and give 50% back to the retirees.Would never happen .Well if teams didnt share revenue alot of players wouldnt make big money and alot of others would make alot less than 400,000.Ill never make that kinda money total in my life.Screw the players we already knew the owners were greedy seeing they only get 40 percent for of the profits from all those headaches ita a wonder we have football or do we
Madrid517 - 13 years ago
I want to thank all the greedy whining crybabies (the owners AND players) for making me not have to pay for my NFL Sunday ticket any longer, and so my family and I don't have to pay for anymore of my teams tickets or apparel cause since all this stupid stuff has happened I will no longer spend a dime of my hard earned money to support these selfish and greedy millionaires or billionaires. So thank you NFL/NFLPA, and I'm positive I'm not the only one that feels this way.
CP21 - 13 years ago
K, ScottP in Bwk
The players are not trying to get a raise, the owners are trying to give them less….If you finally got up to $10/hr working your McD’ job, and your boss said he was going to go back to paying you $8.50 you wouldn’t be too happy either
To anybody complaining how much money an NFL players gets paid… Are you really that stupid? They are getting paid much more than you because they are doing something that you can’t do; just like lawyers are getting paid more than you, just like anybody who becomes a good carpenter, plumber, electrician. There is a pay to a job, and only certain people will be able to be good at such job and I am truly sorry that sweeping the floors at your local elementary school is not raking you in 300K a year. Your parents should have taught you that you can be almost anything you want when you grow up, but if you choose to pick trash you will get paid trash, and if you should to be great at something that pays better, you will get rewarded for it.
You guys bitch about how much these athletes are getting paid, yet the CEO for your local power company probably racked in 500 K plus 1-2 million dollar bonus yet they have to charge you $1000 + a month for electricity…watching football is a choice, stop watching it…. having electricity is not, yet my power increases every year because CEOs need million dollar bonuses
And finally purple haze, you are giving stoners a bad name…clean out your bong water…. Your logic is stupid. If training, practicing, studying, watching film, playing games, and talking to the media is part of their job, then they are working while they are doing. Who cares that you work out and watch NFL-n, so do I. You have no idea what they do or how hard they work. If it was easy, we’d all be doing it.
Some of you guys make a good point against both sides, they both need to pull up their pants, get a deal done and go back to work… but those of you who are just trollin’ need to get your ass out of your momma’s basement and make something of your life; instead of complaining about how much other people get paid, go get a better job yourself…and if playing football is so easy, go do it.
Are you knew to PFT? Every article ever posted about this on PFT has been pro-union. They even have a block to the right that has articles listed titled "Latest Union Posts". People are voting this way because every time Smith opens his mouth he spews ignorance and arrogance. I am sorry man, the facts are heavily in the favor of the players being at fault, but honestly, I believe that both share the blame. 70% Players, 25% De Smith and 5% Drew Brees.
bodhinafews - 13 years ago
After reading on PFT the concessions the league submitted as a final offer to the players and seeing that they made quite a few, I have to blame this on the Players. It is solely about the money. Sure the league did not specify the exact terms of the financials, but Florio did an article about what the players are exactly sacraficing and even in the worst case scenario it did not seem too bad. Right now there are people who would kill to have a job that pays decent and the Players are pushing this thing because they dont feel like they are getting paid what they should? When I gaurantee it is millions any way? Yeah sounds greedy. Suck it up, take the final offer terms because it is more than fair and lets get on with football.
PurpleHaze - 13 years ago
The way I look at it is 16 games equals 16 hrs of actual work per year, however, half the time you are not out there because its 50/50 offense and defense, so we will say 8 hours per year, hmm, during that time easily over half of that time is spent in between plays, so we go high side here and say 4 hrs per year you are actually working hard at your trade as a player. Now I do understand that they all spend a certain amount of time working on their bodies and game planning and watching film. But I spend a certain amount of my own free time at the gym, countless hours game planning, reading up on football and yes even watching audio and video clips of my own fantasy football team (all for free for love of the game I might add).
My point is the lowest football player makes about 50 times what I did when I got out of school and even now after 30 years in the workforce some make more 500 times as much as I do and I actually have to work for 40 hrs or more per week every week all year long. They are all already overpaid grossly for what they actually do, which is playing a game which the vast majority actually love doing.
I also have received only a 2% raise in wages over the last 4 years despite my company receiving record profit margins, NFL players have been getting easily 10 percent raises a year for a long time now and really have no reason to demand more more more, this is not about the lowest 90 percent of players making more money anyways, it is and always will be about the top 10 percent padding their pockets even more, hell they even all got together and are gonna sue the NFL now, ...Brady, Manning and the rest of the overpaid bunch.
Mole - 13 years ago
What's so different about this or any other pro sport? They all owners/players make way, way too much $$$. And fans continue to pay stupid $$$ for tickets, parking, food etc. I wish all the fans of all the sports would get together and boycott games until prices are rolled back. Maybe the NFL will wind up being the first sport to put their collective neck on the chopping block. Think of all the stadium employees who need their jobs and all the groups who volunteer at the games to raise $ for kids in sports, band, cheerleading etc. A lot of innocent people are going to get hurt. Oh, btw, not one more tax penny should be spent on any of these stadiums directly or by subsidy. Anybody ever play poker and won a hand where you got called but didn't have to show your cards? Didn't think so. That's what the owners did. They are not individuals they are acting in concert and this was planned for well over a year. Just saying.
Covert - 13 years ago
Germans?
Forget it, he's rolling.
Paul - 13 years ago
Florio - your readers somehow believe the players are more to blame for the current lockout and money discussions - nice work on skewing the facts enough that people are actually backing the owners in this situation.....incredible.
Next you'll have us believing it was our fault the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
heavybeard - 13 years ago
The facts as I see them; Spoiled overpaid pampered players and greedy owners are showing that the fans don't matter. Therefore, as far as I am concerned let the NFL & NBA go broke. At that point many of us will have $$ to spend on family, etc.
What do you think Vick will now do for a living? Hummm, maybe he can be an electrical engineer or something like that....lol.
I prefer highschool and college ball anyway.
Covert - 13 years ago
I blame the fans who pay the ridiculous price of tickets, food, and all the other paraphernalia. It's capitalism at it's worst and all the sports owners try to make the most money that the market will allow while paying the people (gladiators?) who put their neck on the line the least they can get away with. That's why unions get created, to fight back in numbers instead of an individual having to hire an attorney, which almost never happens. Let the owners hire scabs, that worked out so well last time.
chad - 13 years ago
Have the players publicized any commitments to the retirees in their business/gladiator-ring?
That issue is my baseline for determining whether the tide is natural & worthy or pure selfishness for "NOW".
JT - 13 years ago
Poll: Fans support players over NFL owners
"Americans, by a ratio of more than 2-to-1, are lining up with NFL players in their labor dispute with team owners that threatens to shut down the sport.
A Bloomberg National Poll conducted March 4-7 showed 43 percent of those surveyed side with the players and 20 percent with the owners. The remaining 37 percent either don't follow football or aren't sure which side they favor."
This is a real poll that isn't skewed by people hired by the NFL to spin this.
By the way, Florio is furiously editing NFL negative posts out of his page's comments section.
Jack - 13 years ago
Another resounding reason that the public (Taxpayers) should not be paying for Pro or minor league stadiums of any kind. If a ownership group wants to buy a team or start a team they should finance their own stadium. No exceptions. $9 billion dollars and taxpayers pay for security, flyovers by the Department of Redundancy to build up patriotism to support the corporate wars and maintenance.
Steph - 13 years ago
Listen this situation is both the fault of the players and the owners. ALL are money hungry people who only have their best interest at heart, but hey it is like that all over the world not just in sports. I think the players get paid an ungodly amount of money to do something they love to do, and the owners get paid an ungodly amount of money for commercializing their players. So both parties need to suck it up and think about the fans, grow up, and settle on a deal.
Matt - 13 years ago
It's hard not to blame both. There's 9 BILLION dollars involved in the league. Plus both sides have had unreasonable demands (the owners for 18 games, the players for private finical data).
JamVee - 13 years ago
If the fans had any sense, they would boycott all Pro sports for about a year. Let both the Owners and the Players stew in their own greed for a while.
If that were to happen maybe the Teams might try to get their costs under control so the average Dad could afford to take his kids to a game more than once every 3 years.
Stevem7 - 13 years ago
The Union began planning for this 2 years ago when they started educating the players about financial responsibility. For 2 years the UNION has negotiated in bad faith and now they got what they wanted. They are unemployed and it's my fervent hope that the Owners go hire a bunch of total unknowns (The Replacements) with ZERO chance of any current player ever coming back to play. Wouldn't bother me in the least to never see Brees, Brady, the Mannings and others again.
Bored On Sunday - 13 years ago
I am totally in agreement with Seek Wisdom - All of us that are taking the time to comment are the reason that the players and owners have something to argue about. It's clear that we all love the game, but it's our willingness to pay ridiculous ticket prices, outrageous food and beer prices, and equally overpriced NFL merchandise that keeps the league running. Sadly, it would take 2-3 years of all of us, and the millions of other fans to boycott the NFL, and not support it in any way, and just maybe, the financial scales would properly adjust for the financial times in which we live. People out of work, families losing their homes, and the Owners and Players fighting over how to split our billions of dollars. It's pretty damn sad and greedy on both sides. I am going to miss the NFL this year, but I think this needs to happen, and I am OK with having to find something else to do on Sundays for 20 weeks a year. Money IS the root of all evil. Greed is NOT good.
Saberstud75 - 13 years ago
"In a true partnership each side does its' best to enlist the trust of the other. That is afterall what makes a partnership. After the owners tried to set aside their lockout war chest who could blame the players for not trusting them. I don't blame the players for wanting to see the justification for the re-distribution of income. From what I read it was only a few owners who were averse to this disclosure. If you've got a legit reason other than greed to want this re-distribution show it in good faith and let's move on. Obviously the owners don't trust the players either! Alas, no trust, no deal...."
DirtyBirdO6, is that you again?
Here is an idea, on Monday go into work and tell your employer that he is now your partner and ask to see his financial statements for the last 10 years. You too will experience a lockout!
Kerry - 13 years ago
Cut all taxpayer funding for any pro sport. The greed of the owners AND the players is ruining pro sports. The owners pull money off the top and force taxpayers to fund stadiums. The players demand huge salaries, yet most can't speak clearly or intelligently and most run afoul of the law. I quit going to pro games after the idoits did this in baseball. Let them all sink!
Ron - 13 years ago
Multi-million dollar owners and players and the public foots the bill with higher and higher ticket prices to watch a GAME......that's right...... A GAME.
These billionaire and millionaire babies have you so addicted that some of you would risk losing your jobs to watch A GAME!!! How stupid can you be.
You want entertainment.....follow your local high school, make donations to the schools they represent and take the ticket money you would have DONATED TO THE PRO'S and let it be used on a local level.
Trust me, I've been around long enough to know.....the caliber of play is less than it used to be, the players are all hired guns with no team loyalty established and they and the owners don't give a damn that more and more of your money goes to support their lavish lifestyles.
Wake up America. Games are Games. Your money and time could be much better spent.
Prasant - 13 years ago
Let me say this is real disappointing that owners that are making billions of dollars and players making millions of dollars could not solve this. One, I think the owners wanted to lockout the players (opting out of the current agreement in 2008 and renegotiating the TV deals to get paid if there was a lockout which was against there duty to maximize revenue which is part of the CBA). The players had no choice but to decertify since there was no progress being made in negotations despite what was coming out in the media. I believe if the owners had opened there books I think some very bad things were going to come out about how these teams operate which would have created dissension between owners and also might of had local governments asking why we gave you guys money to pay for your stadiums.
The players aren't completely blameless either if De Smith point was to embarrass the owners then shame on him because then you really aren't negotiating in good faith.
jj - 13 years ago
In a true partnership each side does its' best to enlist the trust of the other. That is afterall what makes a partnership. After the owners tried to set aside their lockout war chest who could blame the players for not trusting them. I don't blame the players for wanting to see the justification for the re-distribution of income. From what I read it was only a few owners who were averse to this disclosure. If you've got a legit reason other than greed to want this re-distribution show it in good faith and let's move on. Obviously the owners don't trust the players either! Alas, no trust, no deal....
Ed - 13 years ago
Da Bears are my passion. My real concern this morning is for the people of Japan and the public servants of Wisconsin, who have lost their rights to collectively bargain. The middle class in this country was built on the rights, wages and benefits won by unionized workers. As workers gained, mid level management gained. More sons and daughters went to college from working class families. Our economy grew, we were competitive. Businesses bought off Unions, rather than dealer with changing economies and market conditions. In the generation since the Air Traffic Controllers union was busted, we have a less educated, less competitive economy since the birth of our nation. We gladly spend money on NFL, it entertains us. We must be entertained first, other wise Charlie Sheen would not be "winning".
The NFL and Players are great theatre right now. Both sides will start losing some money immediately. The lawyer bills will mount, revenues will stop coming in. Players are only paid a stipend in training camp. When game checks are missed and game revenues are missed the real fun begins.
I'll support my local bar this fall when the NFL Sunday Ticket goes to re-runs. Even though he is a Steelers fan. I will spend my other NFL entertainment dollars elsewhere. Perhaps I'll donate more to NPR.
JP - 13 years ago
Goodell is a JOKE....
nick - 13 years ago
doesnt matter now cuz im done with football!
CKL - 13 years ago
Allen..thanks for a union perspective. I wondered if that was common practice and if not, what is. I realize that NFL players aren't a "normal" unionized workforce but your take sounds practical.
mike - 13 years ago
suddenly the players...some of whom can barely right their name....know who to run a multibillion dollar business.....these players are hilarious in their ignorance
Rick - 13 years ago
These %^&$#@ players are unbelievable, maybe I don't need to watch the NFL anymore.
allen - 13 years ago
As an ex union employee and now an employer no union asks for the employers books before negotiating a new contract. They negotiate an increase that is based on the market.The average labor cost vs the total cost of a product provided by a company is around 30%. The NFLPA wants 60%. That is totally unreasonable if you realize the rest of the cost that the owners have to run their organization and make a profit. Forbes publishes the value of the Teams and their operating cost yearly and some of the Teams make a lot and some do not. The players live a lifestyle that is enjoyed by less than 1/2 of 1% of the people in the USA. They have a judge in their pocket and they believe that will play in their favor so they are not willing come to terms on a contract. The players need to get in the real world and get a real job. None of them, De. Smith included have a clue what it cost to run a business or have a clue period.
NMEagle - 13 years ago
Unions do not create work, nor does it appear they could run a business for a profit. Mostly, I see unions as leeches. They have no way to produce anything, no way to make money; all they have are people that give them money which reminds me of the protection business which the crimanals run and seems to be well and alive.
Unions will run all things into the ground as they seem to have done to our REPUBLIC. We, the people, need to stand up and make these unions realize we won't accept them destroying our loved sport and more importantly the USA economy.
Axabad - 13 years ago
The sad part is that the Players need some give from the Owners in the areas of health insurance, retirement benefits, more active roster players, less OTAs / full contact practices, and yes, a rookie wage scale in conjunction with a salary floor and cap. But they gave it all away out of a desire for more money and to try to embarrass the Owners.
Why are the Owners expected to pay for so much and yet the Players don't have to come out of pocket for much of anything? Where do the benefits outweigh the upfront dollars in the Player's minds? Players are simply spoiled from all the years of people giving them things....
DirtyBird06 - 13 years ago
EAGLEjoe; thank you for that!
EAGLEjoe - 13 years ago
As somebody who negotiated two contracts with a company, it seems that both parties are at fault. Do not forget that the owners failed to negotiate the best network deal for themselves and the players so they could be prepared for a lengthy lockout. As for the players not wanting a deal that does not jive. They could have decert a week ago to quicken the process. But where I think the players dropped the ball was not responding to owners last proposal with one of their own. The owners had made some concessions(although I do not know anybody who would be happy if their boss came in and said I am going to give you a raise but base it on your salary from four years ago and you would actually make less money) it still was a significant proposal. Also as far as the argument of opening the books unions have always asked companies to see their ledgers. My company did and thay were losing money and we bargained accordingly and gave them relief. Companies making a profit usually will not open their books. Union should have made a counter proposal and extended for a short period of time. We had a saying you can always go on strike (or decert in this case) but that should be a last resort. In my opinion both parties came up short, the owners had two years to put a legitimate proposal together but instead set their sights on making sure they had cash flow for a lockout(illegal TV contract) but a union should never leave a legitimate proposal on table without respnnding. Thi is called bargaining and the leadership let the members and us fans domn.
EAGLEjoe - 13 years ago
As somebody who negotiated two contracts with a company, it seems that both parties are at fault. Do not forget that the owners failed to negotiate the best network deal for themselves and the players so they could be prepared for a lengthy lockout. As for the players not wanting a deal that does not jive. They could have decert a week ago to quicken the process. But where I think the players dropped the ball was not responding to owners last proposal with one of their own. The owners had made some concessions(although I do not know anybody who would be happy if their boss came in and said I am going to give you a raise but base it on your salary from four years ago and you would actually make less money) it still was a significant proposal. Also as far as the argument of opening the books unions have always asked companies to see their ledgers. My company did and thay were losing money and we bargained accordingly and gave them relief. Companies making a profit usually will not open their books. Union should have made a counter proposal and extended for a short period of time. We had a saying you can always go on strike (or decert in this case) but that should be a last resort. In my opinion both parties came up short, the owners had two years to put a legitimate proposal together but instead set their sights on making sure they had cash flow for a lockout(illegal TV contract) but a union should never leave a legitimate proposal on table without respnnding. Thi is called bargaining and the leadership let the members and us fans domn.
Paul Noga - 13 years ago
The vast majority of Players agreed with the NFLPA that the best way to fight was to De-certify, have some Players file lawsuits, and later reform as a union.
Doesn't that sound legally like conspiracy? Maybe even extortion?
I would love to see the NFL file criminal conspiracy charges against the Players who filed the lawsuits and see them on TV led out in handcuffs to jail.
DirtyBird06 - 13 years ago
Axabad, great points. I cannot argue against them.
And SeekWisdom, I've already canceled my Sunday Ticket so I'm with you on that.
Axabad - 13 years ago
Yes, even the best talents have been replaced in the league... it happens every year regardless of my proposal. Teach the younger players that they can be replaced and teach the older players that they don't own the league regardless of their fame or status within the league.
How many great Hall of Fame players have played for different team than their original team on the back end of their careers? Jerry Rice, Marcus Allen, Emmitt Smith, and Joe Montana to name just a few. Manning, Brady, and Brees are already 10 years plus in the league. They will be leaving soon enough anyway, so why not make them an example now. They are replacable!!
Here is the other point... how many would come crying to rejoin the league even at a reduce rate? Most NFL players would come to find out that the little bit of money NORMAL people make isn't viable for them anymore since they got the taste of the good life already.
How many of these College educated players would sound like incompetent idiots when put in a setting outside of football... in a setting where they are not revered or worshiped for their athletic ability as a Professional Football Player? " Do you know who I AM? I'm a Professional Gardener!!!!" Just doesn't have the same ring to it, does it?
Seek Wisdom - 13 years ago
The NFL FAN base are the FOOLS to blame for the NFL fiasco. Do you not realize they would not have a product if you didn't pay for game tickets, NFL Sunday Ticket, and NFL fan gear? Don't have a pitty part because you funded their spoiled selfish tirades wanting more. You want leverage as a FAN, BOYCOTT THE NFL in every area! Hockey learned a huge lesson, maybe it is time for the NFL to learn theirs...
DirtyBird06 - 13 years ago
Saberstud75 et al,
Fair enough.
But for the sake of argument, why do you feel like I'm completely off base?
Dirtybird06 - 13 years ago
Well, thank God you're not running the show Axabad because you'd be putting some of the best talent this league has ever seen on the street.
And should I remind you, it's the owners who rush out in free agency and pay these guys to astronomical salaries i.e., Haynsworth and Peppers last year.
They have only themselves to blame for these bloated contracts not anyone else.
Saberstud75 - 13 years ago
"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Saberstud75 & PriorKnowledge; You guys are funny!
I'm just creating an argument and putting my theory to it. I'm all ears, convince me otherwise... "
DBO6,
Read every other comment on this site. Your comments are the only ones that favor the players/union. All posters, minus you, make valid points. There is your proof. This website wanted to know viewers opinions on the matter, you are trying to change peoples opinions. Stop pushing your agenda!
sjricker - 13 years ago
In today's economy, it sure would be nice to have a job...let alone one that pays millions of dollars! Come on! No more Charlie Sheens needed in this world!! We love our teams and our players but no one is immune to replacement! Hey, wasn't that a movie??? The Replacements??? Here's hoping our football season opens on time--with our favs!!!! Go Steelers!!!!
Axabad - 13 years ago
Dirtybird06, you sound like a NFL player spouting the NFLPA mantra. Players are not owed what the NFLPA has demanded. For instance, the NFLPA was crying about the Players losing health insurance. Its called COBRA and you should easily be able to afford it even on a Rookie Min Contract! I'm sorry but does that mean one less diamond ring?! The owners paid hundreds of Millions of dollars for their respective franchises or the equivalent when dating back to the original AFL era franchises. They pay for all the support personnel, coaching staffs, equipment and training facilities, transportation, security, food and a ton of other things. Who are the Players to dictate how much profit the Owners are "allowed" to make? The Players are paid more than most players could ever make working normal jobs. Are there risks... Yes. But Players are not forced to play. They CHOOSE to play for the financial rewards, yet are demanding still more.
The Players are fools and idiots and I truly hope they get shafted in the Courts. Why? Because at this point, with such litigation, there is no longer a viable way for the Owners to conduct business. My hope is that the Owners decided to combine their interests into a single entity called the NFL. They release ALL CURRENT PLAYERS from their contracts, and conduct their business as they have but with simple profit sharing based on value of each team they get to run. Pay players a MAX of 1 Million a year plus give health insurance as they offered. All contracts with NFL, but assigned via Internal Draft to individual teams. No anti-trust because its a single company. Draft not illegal because the Players sign with the NFL and get assigned a team to work with. IF the Players don't like it, they can sign with the AFL, CFL, or the UFL, as the NFL isn't the only Professional league in America or on the North American continent.
This way the Owners make more money, the Players will eventually cave at a greatly reduced price, and the Fans, yes the FANS, get Professional Football again. Initially it may not be as good but a few seasons down the road.... it won't look any different than it did in 2010. AND the Players would really be Screwed!!!!!
DirtyBird06 - 13 years ago
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Saberstud75 & PriorKnowledge; You guys are funny!
I'm just creating an argument and putting my theory to it. I'm all ears, convince me otherwise...
Dawkfan20 - 13 years ago
Last I checked the NFL is a private business and is under no obligation to publicly disclose their financial statements. The Packers are the only publicly held organization and as such their information is available to the public. For those of us who work for privately held companies, how many of us would still have our jobs if we demanded to see the company financials after we are told our salaries will be reduced or there is a salary freeze for the next 2 years. I am sick of the NFLPA saying it's a partnership. IT'S NOT! Players are employees of the team! This will affect the players more than the owners! These are wealthy men for a reason. They have diversified portfolios and can survive the waiting game. Players will cave!!!!!! The names of the players in the litigation should give reason to the players to pause for a sec and consider that these guys can do without their paychecks. Manning made over $16 million last season, Brees more than $15. Let's see how long a guy making $100,000 will last. Let's not even talk about the kid who's not even in the league yet joining the lawsuit! GO PHILLIES!!!
Mike - 13 years ago
This is total crap. I can't believe that people how make $400K to $20+ Million a year are going to do this. Screw them all. I hope they have to get a job like the rest of the world. I refuse to buy any NFL items at this time. I hope we all do the same. I am a season ticket holder and a die hard NFL fan. I guess I am now a college footbal fan again! Does anyone else in the general pubic have guaranteed health care for life? Do we want it yes but we don't have it and you think you have that right for playing a game!! Are you kidding me!!! I have an idea sell one of your ferraris or live in a slightly above normal house. Why do you think you have the right to see the NFL books? You by a team and you can see all the books you want.
Preacher - 13 years ago
How can their be a anti-trust lawsuit when the players can go work for someone else? Football is a game, and there are other leagues where the players can go. There is the Canadian Football League, the Arena Football League or the UFL; all who would love our caliber of players
Maybe the players should have to be like the rest of us; if they don't like how much they get paid, or their benefits......they can always find a new job doing something else.
Saberstud75 - 13 years ago
"DirtyBird06 is obviously a lawyer for the ex-NFLPA. You can tell by that absolute lawyer-speak "How can anyone....". No one uses phrases like that except lawyers, who are 100% blind to any other argument except their side."
Spot On!!!
Give it a rest DirtyBird06, we're not buying it!
Football fanatic - 13 years ago
Too much money and greed. Football has ruined itself just as baseball did back in '93'. I'm done. Cancelling my package on Directv. Cancelling plans to go to a game or two. GO ARENA FOOTBALL were they play for peanuts especially when AF2 was up and running! Done!
DirtyBird06 - 13 years ago
I'm flattered, er...I think, but I'm the farthest thing from a lawyer or anyone who works or has worked for the NFLPA. I can promise you that.
I'm just a fan of the game as much as anyone else is who is trying to decipher between what's real and what's smoke. And to me, the owners brought this fight to the players when they decided to renegotiate the network deal and then opt out of the current CBA back in 2008. Listen, had Judge Doty ruled in favor of the owners, there would still be a lock-out but only imposed by the league and not forced by the players. Asking for an additional billion off the top without any proof and then in negotiations you drop that number down substantially only tells me you were lying and trying to screw over the players for more money. And not showing proof only backs that theory up.
Again, I don't work for anything NFL or it's players and I've never taken the Bar exam. LMAO
mike - 13 years ago
1). the idiot players need to realize that if the teams aren't solvent, then the end result is, no league, teams & no cks to buy three escalades & two houses
2). if you own any type of business, esp private like the nfl, then you are under no obligatation to anyone but yourself.
good luck to the players....maybe they'll be my next waiter at red lobster!
CdnNiner - 13 years ago
All the players fault and demaurice smith is the main one to blame with his pawn Kessler. Can't believe they turned down the last deal. Owners declare bankruptcy and rebuild our league!
Very much against the players, in todays world they are lucky to have job and get millions to play a sport. May all thier houses, and Bentley cars get foreclosed.
DirtyBird06 - 13 years ago
I'm curious, have any of you seen the 'NFL Decision Tree'? The owners were going to lock-out the players regardless if they had access to that 4+ Billion war chest the networks agreed to.
Judge Doty came across this gem when he ruled against the league. This single document speaks volumes as to where the league really stood. They had every intention of missing games to bleed the players dry into a submission until they agreed to the extra billion off the top.
Know the facts...
PriorKnowledge - 13 years ago
DirtyBird06 is obviously a lawyer for the ex-NFLPA. You can tell by that absolute lawyer-speak "How can anyone....". Noone uses phrases like that except lawyers, who are 100% blind to any other argument except their side.
fred - 13 years ago
I really think that the owners want a deal, also most of the players. The problem is too many agents and lawyers involved.
Michael Di Antonio - 13 years ago
Since I was not in the meetings, anything I say has no proof but what we hear thru the media, but i'll give my opinion.
It is greed on the part of both parties, but the owners have every right to make as much as their able to get. This is not a partnership, as D Smith keeps saying. It is a business and you have an employer (owners) and employees(players).
The NFL needs to
create a better retirement/pension plan for the players of today and yesterday.
They seem to have agreed on that.
They want to reign in salaries for the rookies. Good idea.
They backed off the idea of 18 games, for 2 years and in all likelyhood for good.
They want to slow down the current player salary structure. Owners made it what it is with their big ego's and desire to win, so that will not get adjusted back to 2007 salaries.
I can't stand Lawyers and all this is going to do is line the pockets of these whores.
Congratulations Owners and players!
I gave up my season tickets the year they insisted on seat licenses back in 2002 , after 27 years as season ticket holder and I was just 42 at the time.
Enough is enough and with all the tragedy and death in the world, I have more important things to worry about.
Call me in September when they suddenly come to an agreement..What a joke!
Troy - 13 years ago
I am totally against the players here they left a great deal on the table. The players don't have to fund new stadiums, they don't have operating expenses, and they certainly don't need an extra $500 million split up between them, they make enough! I'm sick of hearing that the majority of players aren't MILLIONAIRES, they only make the veteran's minimum of $300K. WAAA WAAA WAAA. I wish I made 300k. Save 1/3 of that and you have a million in ten years or less. Absolutely ridiculous. Players are greedy as hell and deserve to lose game checks...
pissedoffnflfan - 13 years ago
Both the players and owners are to blame.
on one side you have a bunch of money hungry billionaires who only care about their bank accounts, and on the other hand you have a bunch of semi illiterate millionaires who are getting paid more money than the average person will ever make to play a f'ing game.
The NFL has just lost a lifelong fan for good this time! !!!!
DirtyBird06 - 13 years ago
An interesting tidbit...
"Despite publicly admitting no club was losing money, that TV ratings, sponsorship money, etc. were at an all time high, the NFL continued to insist on an 18-percent rollback in the players’ share of revenues and continue to deny the NFLPA’s request for justification."
Saberstud75 - 13 years ago
DirtyBird06,
You totally sound like you are on the former NFLPA payroll. It actually would not surprise me if DeMo Smith had trolls out on the internet trying to win over the fan base for his litigations in the future.
My opinion is that DeMo Smith wanted to go to court from day 1. The owners made most of the efforts during the negotiations. Do employees have the right to demand to see audited financial statements for the last 10 years? Really??? If the players are that concerned about their health and future they would invest in retirement and insurance versus big houses, flashy cars, and jewlery. Also, the owners are taking all the financial risk in a very shaky economy. I fully understand that the players risk their bodies on a daily basis on the field. However, members of the U.S. Military take much greater physical risk on a daily basis for a LOT LESS and they do not demand to see financial statements to do so.
DeMaurice Smith will go down as the guy that killed the golden goose that used to be professional football. I will not be renewing my NFL Sunday ticket, buying any game tickets or appearal any time soon either. On the brighter side, I will have more time to spend with my family on Sundays, and I think others should do the same.
The fools on both sides of this arguement would benefit from a season without football to get better in touch with their fan base, the ones that really pay the bills.
Bob Ramsey - 13 years ago
All you have to do is look at what the owners were willing to give to the players. They had come down off their 1B request to 325M; mediacal care for life; a fund for retirees with 82M being put in the first two years; a 3rd party--which the players ahve been screaming for for years--to review suspensions for substance abuse. C'mon, the players--or I should say, DeMaurice Smith, never wanted to settle this through negotiation. As I've writtenseveral times, with Judge Doty in their back pocket, they knew they would be going to court. Plus, and this is where the journalists have it wrong, it wasn't the owners who started spouting off to the media, but two players involved in these sham negotiations, Jeff Saturday and Scott Fujita, who went to the press on Tuesday to complain.
DirtyBird06 - 13 years ago
How can anyone blame the players when it was the owners that nixed the deal in the first place without the necessary proof that they are, indeed, hemorrhaging money? They insist the 'updated' version of the deal was a good one, but how would they, the union, know that to be true if no real financial history was brought to the forefront? Where they just supposed to trust the owners? The very same owners who tried to receive 'lock-out' insurance money? Because truth be told, had they received that 4+ billion, they would've have done exactly that; locked the players out until they broke the players into a submission. I don't like the game being played in the media by the owners and I cannot believe the support that the public is trying to give them.
I'm curious how you really feel about the situation and not the watered down version that you put on the site.
ScottP in Bwk - 13 years ago
When was the last time an employee (player) tried to force his employer (the NFL) to open thier financial statements and books to show why they (the employee) could not get a raise.
Answer: never - and now I might be able to afford to go see a game, the same as I did in 1987 in Washington,DC, when I saw the St. Louis Cardinals play the Washington Redskins and J.T. Smith set the record for most receptions in a game.
Quit think about money and think about the fan that pays your salary by attending your GAMES that you get to play for money.
The Beev - 13 years ago
With all the chaos and scary scenerios going on in this mucked-up world...does anyone really give a hoot? I mean come on... this is the "last" thing that keeps me up at night.
I blame the players greed on this walk-out. The amounts they demand for their contracts is hard to imagine the owners even make a proof-it. If they could roll back the salary by half and quit treating them like prema-donna's just think. States having teams would not have to pay so call sin taxes to pay for their stadiums that house their sport. Look it up just about every state taxpayer pays to maintain or upgrade their stadium. Why will they not think of the fans whom support them and quit being so selfish? I for one am tired of it and am canceling my orders of tickets. I never realized I payed as a hard working middle class worker for them to have luxury & whin. Do they need some cheese? Sorry guys I can not afford. This use to be the a great American sport not any more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Greed. It is all about the MONEY. I WAS a baseball and football fan. Because of salaries and everything in the corpoate world: I can not afford a cheap ticket to a game. It is about them: salaries, houses, cars. It has nothing to do with fans. I do not watch baseball or football and I never will. The greed is to painful for me to ever consider myself a fan.
1 its not employees and employers as the nfl has admitted their a partnership godell and the nflpa has said that and the courts ruled that way. thats why their allowed to have a cba if it wasnt a partnership the cba would be illegal and the rules the nfl has would be anti trust law violations. 2nd the owners did cut it down to 325 million your right but you forget they said any growth besides the 1.5% they said the nfl would gain in the next year and so on theygot all the profits of it. So if the income this year was 100 mil they say it'll increase to 101.5 million next year. However say it grows by alot more and lets say 20% unrealistic but if it did that would be 120 mil the nflpa gets half of the 1.5 mil gained than the nfl gets the other half and the other extra gained. So in a billion dollar industry lets say 1 billion profit this year with the 1.5% increase they say they'll make 1,015,000,000 but lets say they grow by 3.5% thats 1,035,000,000 the players would get 7,500,000 where as the nfl would get 26,500,000 lets see so the nflpa gets rounded up 72% of the profits yah that seems real fair. And remember it was the nfl's deal that offered that. So anyone that says their last offer was good is terrible at math and knows nothing. thats why the nflpa didnt take the deal. they would have taken the first offer of giving the nfl an extra 1 billion to make it 2 billion of the top than splitting that but the nflpa just wanted proof that the nfl was losing money. The nfl said trust us where losing money. Nflpa says prove it where not gonna take your word for it. The nfl says you should trust us because you know us. Yah in my opinion i would say no prove it or we walk. Thats what the nflpa did. Instead of being cornered by the nfl because they controlled them for so long the nflpa said no where partners and start treating us like it our we walk. The nfl said well thats what you want to do, than do it because we dont believe you really will. When they did the nfl says well that was their plan blah blah blah. All the nfl seems to be doing is acting like 6 year olds crying about who broke the toy. I say fess up that you offered a shitty deal and didnt wanna show proof it was shitty. Put it this way if you had a million dollars to invest and their was a company that wanted you to invest. Would you just say yah sure why not or would you look into the company and make sure you have proof the company is positive and making profit so you make profit. Thats what the players wanted if the nfl wanted more money cause they where losing money you just like the players would want proof of that loss not just some guys words. thats all i have to say rebuttle it whatever you want but actually use real stuff dont say stuff about employees and employeers when thats what they aren't show you have some smarts and arent ignorant. Thanks
Let's fans strike. Both sides are incredibly greedy. Figure what you make (or I) and figure what the average NFL player makes. For my wife and I to go to a game probably costs $200 or more.
Fans STRIKE!!
Billionar buisness owners tring to squeeze yet another penny from thier employees (granted alot of millionars). I just hope these players are prepaired finacialy and not forced to return giving up even more. I don't go to games to see the owners or thier stadiums. The players are what i want to see.
The owners have been planning for at least this since they acquired the "lockout insurance" in their last TV contract. They have a game plan and they are sticking to it.
The lockout is just another reminder that there are more important things in life.
So as I see it some people are against the owners and then some against the players. Well as a union member (retired) please let me say this. I don't ever recall seeing anything about the owners locking out the players. It was always the union spouting that line. So the union disbands and 5 minutes later some high priced players (that are under contract) go to court and seek an injunction against the owners to not lock them out. Does this ring true? Maybe the players should try and get another line of work. But then that might take some learning to be able to do that.
So in closing, let the players play their silly game and remain on strike. Gee I wonder if they will qualify for food stamps? There are always other things to do on a Sunday other than sit in front of the tube.
The owners have to run this as a business. If the players do not think they are making enough they are welcome to work for 40 thousand a year like everyone else.
...And in case you didn't hear,the only team in the League that is owned publicly (the packers) have gone from making $30 million profit a year to only $10 million last year. The union knows they MUST give back to the League to keep it healty and keep those big bucks flowing to the players. They just hope their Mommy Judge Doty will force the owners to NOT look out for the future of the League but allow the League to continue to faulter,until in the next CBA the owners will be forced to really take a stand and maybe we really lose a whole year of games or worse !
...And...In case some of you don't know,the old CBA has a clause in it that makes the owners give Leage wide independently audited info to the players union !!! The owners always give all the info the union needs to know how well the entire League is doing. What the union wants is totally unreasonable. They want detailed info about everthing every indivigual team has done over the past 10 years,so they can nit pick on every owner and hold every little thing over their heads ,like paying relatives to work for them and having private jets etc,
The union knew they had 0 chance to get that demand ,that was just a PR move to TRY to make the owners look bad,but it backfired on them.
Why did it backfire you ask,because the owners agreed to let a independedt auditing firm agreed to by both the owners and unioin to do a total audit on the League and report all finding to the union. The union never responded to that more than generous offer but ran right away to decetify !!! The union has not one leg to stand on in this matter !
The NFL media machine blurrrrs the truth on almost every issue. Fans really don't understand the real truth about the way players have been treated old and new - though the present players have it much better than the old. Still, nowbody should be "drafted" no matter how much one might think it would be worth it....the owners scream "free markets" we are "capitalist" but use a no freedom system for rookies, and limited freedom for vets...smarmy is the best way to describe owners!
Anyone who sides with the owners in this debate have really lost their minds. How much money can 1 person need? The owners make on average 30-50 million per year and they claim to be losing money. Yes Peyton Manning makes 20 million a season, but he is only 1 player. Peyton also has to pay his agent, taxes, and many other fees we do not see. ALL NFL players have to pay taxes and fees that we do not see. After it is said and done most players only see half of their checks.
The owners also get to sit in their cozy chairs, while the slaves(I mean NFL players) make them their money. Owners have 0 health risks, and very little financial risk, players have millions of risks. Most players can barely walk after they finish football. HOW MUCH IS WALKING WORTH TO YOU? 1 hundred thousand? or would you want 10 million?
Of course it is almost all the players union's fault. ! The only thing you can blame the owners for is realizing that they needed more money off the top to keep the League healthy by providing for more stadia to be built etc etc etc., so they wanted the CBA changed . But they offered great compromises to the union to make it more than fair.
The owners compromised on at least 8 issues and put those offers to the players union and were willing to compromise even more on those and all issues, ! BUT the union never responded to ANY of those written offers even once during the moderated negotiations !!!
It was clear from day one that the union felt it could get a better deal by running to it's Mommy (Judge Doty),rather than negotiating like men. The union only went to the negotiations for public relations purposes to try to get some of the gullable fans behind them. But it is crystal clear that they NEVER had any intentions of bargaining in good faith.
It now seems clear that the head of the players union (Smith) has an inferiority complex of some kind and wants to make a name for himself and be spoken of with Gene Upshaw type respect in the future,so he is refusing to bargain in good faith and hoping his Mommy(Judge Doty) will hand him some sort of victory that he can take to his players and they will adore him ,lol.
The owners can't lose,it's only a matter of how much they win this by. The players and the union "leader" have already lost and the players would do well to be very worried about voting in a man who is more worried about his reputation than in getting a good and fair deal,like the owners were willing to give him in negotiations !
The percentage of profit has been declining.Teams that people like to bust on like the redskins squeeze their fans by the balls.8 dollars for a beer 5 for a hot dog that sells at 7 11 for less than a buck.Than our owner has to give some of his profit to the other owners who dont make money.No one seems to realize teams like buffalo and jacksonville and ther are some others are subsidised by the rest of the league.I dont see one poor player just alot of fools living the high life and screwing the fans.Your telling me a team cant go after the signing bonus of someone like haynesworth.How about plaxico burress.Signs a new deal shoots himself goes to jail and he gets to keep the money the teams are stuck by the cap .If they have the money and a player in free agency to replace him hes still on the cap.The team would have to cut a couple of the little guys to fill his spot.The players should never have gotten a deal this good.If the owners only want 400 million back and are gonna put 90 million in a fund for retired players they should have took it and kept their mouths shut.Sonny jurgenson played for 20000 they had no rules to protect the qb.Players were much tougher mentally back in the day.They paved the way for the money the new guys make and they want the owners to pay that on top of the 60 percent profit the players get.The players need a good shellacking im tired of their lying crying rants.The owners made the investment if they bought their stadium thats why they make more money than the owners that didnt and then they have to share that money with owners that either dont know how to get more out of their franchise or dont care to.Look i like my neighbor but im not helping him pay his bills.The fact that they do share should give them the 60 percent.What about the bath they took on nfl europe .They lost their asses.Some players made here from the risk they took.How many cities want an expansion team.It will never happen at a 60 40 split going the wrong way.No other business operates this way.Heres an idea why doesnt a top player like peyton manning get 40 percent of the profit from his jersey after 5 years and give 50% back to the retirees.Would never happen .Well if teams didnt share revenue alot of players wouldnt make big money and alot of others would make alot less than 400,000.Ill never make that kinda money total in my life.Screw the players we already knew the owners were greedy seeing they only get 40 percent for of the profits from all those headaches ita a wonder we have football or do we
The percentage of profit has been declining.Teams that people like to bust on like the redskins squeeze their fans by the balls.* dollars for a beer 5 for a hot dog that sells at 7 11 for less than a buck.Than our owner has to give some of his profit to the other owners who dont make money.No one seems to realize teams like buffalo and jacksonville and ther are some others are subsidised by the rest of the league.I dont see one poor player just alot of fools living the high life and screwing the fans.Your telling me a team cant go after the signing bonus of someone like haynesworth.How about plaxico burress.Signs a new deal shoots himself goes to jail and he gets to keep the money the teams are stuck by the cap .If they have the money and a player in free agency to replace him hes still on the cap.The team would have to cut a couple of the little guys to fill his spot.The players should never have gotten a deal this good.If the owners only want 400 million back and are gonna put 90 million in a fund for retired players they should have took it and kept their mouths shut.Sonny jurgenson played for 20000 they had no rules to protect the qb.Players were much tougher mentally back in the day.They paved the way for the money the new guys make and they want the owners to pay that on top of the 60 percent profit the players get.The players need a good shellacking im tired of their lying crying rants.The owners made the investment if they bought their stadium thats why they make more money than the owners that didnt and then they have to share that money with owners that either dont know how to get more out of their franchise or dont care to.Look i like my neighbor but im not helping him pay his bills.The fact that they do share should give them the 60 percent.What about the bath they took on nfl europe .They lost their asses.Some players made here from the risk they took.How many cities want an expansion team.It will never happen at a 60 40 split going the wrong way.No other business operates this way.Heres an idea why doesnt a top player like peyton manning get 40 percent of the profit from his jersey after 5 years and give 50% back to the retirees.Would never happen .Well if teams didnt share revenue alot of players wouldnt make big money and alot of others would make alot less than 400,000.Ill never make that kinda money total in my life.Screw the players we already knew the owners were greedy seeing they only get 40 percent for of the profits from all those headaches ita a wonder we have football or do we
I want to thank all the greedy whining crybabies (the owners AND players) for making me not have to pay for my NFL Sunday ticket any longer, and so my family and I don't have to pay for anymore of my teams tickets or apparel cause since all this stupid stuff has happened I will no longer spend a dime of my hard earned money to support these selfish and greedy millionaires or billionaires. So thank you NFL/NFLPA, and I'm positive I'm not the only one that feels this way.
K, ScottP in Bwk
The players are not trying to get a raise, the owners are trying to give them less….If you finally got up to $10/hr working your McD’ job, and your boss said he was going to go back to paying you $8.50 you wouldn’t be too happy either
To anybody complaining how much money an NFL players gets paid… Are you really that stupid? They are getting paid much more than you because they are doing something that you can’t do; just like lawyers are getting paid more than you, just like anybody who becomes a good carpenter, plumber, electrician. There is a pay to a job, and only certain people will be able to be good at such job and I am truly sorry that sweeping the floors at your local elementary school is not raking you in 300K a year. Your parents should have taught you that you can be almost anything you want when you grow up, but if you choose to pick trash you will get paid trash, and if you should to be great at something that pays better, you will get rewarded for it.
You guys bitch about how much these athletes are getting paid, yet the CEO for your local power company probably racked in 500 K plus 1-2 million dollar bonus yet they have to charge you $1000 + a month for electricity…watching football is a choice, stop watching it…. having electricity is not, yet my power increases every year because CEOs need million dollar bonuses
And finally purple haze, you are giving stoners a bad name…clean out your bong water…. Your logic is stupid. If training, practicing, studying, watching film, playing games, and talking to the media is part of their job, then they are working while they are doing. Who cares that you work out and watch NFL-n, so do I. You have no idea what they do or how hard they work. If it was easy, we’d all be doing it.
Some of you guys make a good point against both sides, they both need to pull up their pants, get a deal done and go back to work… but those of you who are just trollin’ need to get your ass out of your momma’s basement and make something of your life; instead of complaining about how much other people get paid, go get a better job yourself…and if playing football is so easy, go do it.
@Paul
Are you knew to PFT? Every article ever posted about this on PFT has been pro-union. They even have a block to the right that has articles listed titled "Latest Union Posts". People are voting this way because every time Smith opens his mouth he spews ignorance and arrogance. I am sorry man, the facts are heavily in the favor of the players being at fault, but honestly, I believe that both share the blame. 70% Players, 25% De Smith and 5% Drew Brees.
After reading on PFT the concessions the league submitted as a final offer to the players and seeing that they made quite a few, I have to blame this on the Players. It is solely about the money. Sure the league did not specify the exact terms of the financials, but Florio did an article about what the players are exactly sacraficing and even in the worst case scenario it did not seem too bad. Right now there are people who would kill to have a job that pays decent and the Players are pushing this thing because they dont feel like they are getting paid what they should? When I gaurantee it is millions any way? Yeah sounds greedy. Suck it up, take the final offer terms because it is more than fair and lets get on with football.
The way I look at it is 16 games equals 16 hrs of actual work per year, however, half the time you are not out there because its 50/50 offense and defense, so we will say 8 hours per year, hmm, during that time easily over half of that time is spent in between plays, so we go high side here and say 4 hrs per year you are actually working hard at your trade as a player. Now I do understand that they all spend a certain amount of time working on their bodies and game planning and watching film. But I spend a certain amount of my own free time at the gym, countless hours game planning, reading up on football and yes even watching audio and video clips of my own fantasy football team (all for free for love of the game I might add).
My point is the lowest football player makes about 50 times what I did when I got out of school and even now after 30 years in the workforce some make more 500 times as much as I do and I actually have to work for 40 hrs or more per week every week all year long. They are all already overpaid grossly for what they actually do, which is playing a game which the vast majority actually love doing.
I also have received only a 2% raise in wages over the last 4 years despite my company receiving record profit margins, NFL players have been getting easily 10 percent raises a year for a long time now and really have no reason to demand more more more, this is not about the lowest 90 percent of players making more money anyways, it is and always will be about the top 10 percent padding their pockets even more, hell they even all got together and are gonna sue the NFL now, ...Brady, Manning and the rest of the overpaid bunch.
What's so different about this or any other pro sport? They all owners/players make way, way too much $$$. And fans continue to pay stupid $$$ for tickets, parking, food etc. I wish all the fans of all the sports would get together and boycott games until prices are rolled back. Maybe the NFL will wind up being the first sport to put their collective neck on the chopping block. Think of all the stadium employees who need their jobs and all the groups who volunteer at the games to raise $ for kids in sports, band, cheerleading etc. A lot of innocent people are going to get hurt. Oh, btw, not one more tax penny should be spent on any of these stadiums directly or by subsidy. Anybody ever play poker and won a hand where you got called but didn't have to show your cards? Didn't think so. That's what the owners did. They are not individuals they are acting in concert and this was planned for well over a year. Just saying.
Germans?
Forget it, he's rolling.
Florio - your readers somehow believe the players are more to blame for the current lockout and money discussions - nice work on skewing the facts enough that people are actually backing the owners in this situation.....incredible.
Next you'll have us believing it was our fault the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
The facts as I see them; Spoiled overpaid pampered players and greedy owners are showing that the fans don't matter. Therefore, as far as I am concerned let the NFL & NBA go broke. At that point many of us will have $$ to spend on family, etc.
What do you think Vick will now do for a living? Hummm, maybe he can be an electrical engineer or something like that....lol.
I prefer highschool and college ball anyway.
I blame the fans who pay the ridiculous price of tickets, food, and all the other paraphernalia. It's capitalism at it's worst and all the sports owners try to make the most money that the market will allow while paying the people (gladiators?) who put their neck on the line the least they can get away with. That's why unions get created, to fight back in numbers instead of an individual having to hire an attorney, which almost never happens. Let the owners hire scabs, that worked out so well last time.
Have the players publicized any commitments to the retirees in their business/gladiator-ring?
That issue is my baseline for determining whether the tide is natural & worthy or pure selfishness for "NOW".
Poll: Fans support players over NFL owners
"Americans, by a ratio of more than 2-to-1, are lining up with NFL players in their labor dispute with team owners that threatens to shut down the sport.
A Bloomberg National Poll conducted March 4-7 showed 43 percent of those surveyed side with the players and 20 percent with the owners. The remaining 37 percent either don't follow football or aren't sure which side they favor."
http://www.indystar.com/article/20110311/SPORTS03/103110340/1058/SPORTS03/Poll-Fans-support-players-over-NFL-owners
This is a real poll that isn't skewed by people hired by the NFL to spin this.
By the way, Florio is furiously editing NFL negative posts out of his page's comments section.
Another resounding reason that the public (Taxpayers) should not be paying for Pro or minor league stadiums of any kind. If a ownership group wants to buy a team or start a team they should finance their own stadium. No exceptions. $9 billion dollars and taxpayers pay for security, flyovers by the Department of Redundancy to build up patriotism to support the corporate wars and maintenance.
Listen this situation is both the fault of the players and the owners. ALL are money hungry people who only have their best interest at heart, but hey it is like that all over the world not just in sports. I think the players get paid an ungodly amount of money to do something they love to do, and the owners get paid an ungodly amount of money for commercializing their players. So both parties need to suck it up and think about the fans, grow up, and settle on a deal.
It's hard not to blame both. There's 9 BILLION dollars involved in the league. Plus both sides have had unreasonable demands (the owners for 18 games, the players for private finical data).
If the fans had any sense, they would boycott all Pro sports for about a year. Let both the Owners and the Players stew in their own greed for a while.
If that were to happen maybe the Teams might try to get their costs under control so the average Dad could afford to take his kids to a game more than once every 3 years.
The Union began planning for this 2 years ago when they started educating the players about financial responsibility. For 2 years the UNION has negotiated in bad faith and now they got what they wanted. They are unemployed and it's my fervent hope that the Owners go hire a bunch of total unknowns (The Replacements) with ZERO chance of any current player ever coming back to play. Wouldn't bother me in the least to never see Brees, Brady, the Mannings and others again.
I am totally in agreement with Seek Wisdom - All of us that are taking the time to comment are the reason that the players and owners have something to argue about. It's clear that we all love the game, but it's our willingness to pay ridiculous ticket prices, outrageous food and beer prices, and equally overpriced NFL merchandise that keeps the league running. Sadly, it would take 2-3 years of all of us, and the millions of other fans to boycott the NFL, and not support it in any way, and just maybe, the financial scales would properly adjust for the financial times in which we live. People out of work, families losing their homes, and the Owners and Players fighting over how to split our billions of dollars. It's pretty damn sad and greedy on both sides. I am going to miss the NFL this year, but I think this needs to happen, and I am OK with having to find something else to do on Sundays for 20 weeks a year. Money IS the root of all evil. Greed is NOT good.
"In a true partnership each side does its' best to enlist the trust of the other. That is afterall what makes a partnership. After the owners tried to set aside their lockout war chest who could blame the players for not trusting them. I don't blame the players for wanting to see the justification for the re-distribution of income. From what I read it was only a few owners who were averse to this disclosure. If you've got a legit reason other than greed to want this re-distribution show it in good faith and let's move on. Obviously the owners don't trust the players either! Alas, no trust, no deal...."
DirtyBirdO6, is that you again?
Here is an idea, on Monday go into work and tell your employer that he is now your partner and ask to see his financial statements for the last 10 years. You too will experience a lockout!
Cut all taxpayer funding for any pro sport. The greed of the owners AND the players is ruining pro sports. The owners pull money off the top and force taxpayers to fund stadiums. The players demand huge salaries, yet most can't speak clearly or intelligently and most run afoul of the law. I quit going to pro games after the idoits did this in baseball. Let them all sink!
Multi-million dollar owners and players and the public foots the bill with higher and higher ticket prices to watch a GAME......that's right...... A GAME.
These billionaire and millionaire babies have you so addicted that some of you would risk losing your jobs to watch A GAME!!! How stupid can you be.
You want entertainment.....follow your local high school, make donations to the schools they represent and take the ticket money you would have DONATED TO THE PRO'S and let it be used on a local level.
Trust me, I've been around long enough to know.....the caliber of play is less than it used to be, the players are all hired guns with no team loyalty established and they and the owners don't give a damn that more and more of your money goes to support their lavish lifestyles.
Wake up America. Games are Games. Your money and time could be much better spent.
Let me say this is real disappointing that owners that are making billions of dollars and players making millions of dollars could not solve this. One, I think the owners wanted to lockout the players (opting out of the current agreement in 2008 and renegotiating the TV deals to get paid if there was a lockout which was against there duty to maximize revenue which is part of the CBA). The players had no choice but to decertify since there was no progress being made in negotations despite what was coming out in the media. I believe if the owners had opened there books I think some very bad things were going to come out about how these teams operate which would have created dissension between owners and also might of had local governments asking why we gave you guys money to pay for your stadiums.
The players aren't completely blameless either if De Smith point was to embarrass the owners then shame on him because then you really aren't negotiating in good faith.
In a true partnership each side does its' best to enlist the trust of the other. That is afterall what makes a partnership. After the owners tried to set aside their lockout war chest who could blame the players for not trusting them. I don't blame the players for wanting to see the justification for the re-distribution of income. From what I read it was only a few owners who were averse to this disclosure. If you've got a legit reason other than greed to want this re-distribution show it in good faith and let's move on. Obviously the owners don't trust the players either! Alas, no trust, no deal....
Da Bears are my passion. My real concern this morning is for the people of Japan and the public servants of Wisconsin, who have lost their rights to collectively bargain. The middle class in this country was built on the rights, wages and benefits won by unionized workers. As workers gained, mid level management gained. More sons and daughters went to college from working class families. Our economy grew, we were competitive. Businesses bought off Unions, rather than dealer with changing economies and market conditions. In the generation since the Air Traffic Controllers union was busted, we have a less educated, less competitive economy since the birth of our nation. We gladly spend money on NFL, it entertains us. We must be entertained first, other wise Charlie Sheen would not be "winning".
The NFL and Players are great theatre right now. Both sides will start losing some money immediately. The lawyer bills will mount, revenues will stop coming in. Players are only paid a stipend in training camp. When game checks are missed and game revenues are missed the real fun begins.
I'll support my local bar this fall when the NFL Sunday Ticket goes to re-runs. Even though he is a Steelers fan. I will spend my other NFL entertainment dollars elsewhere. Perhaps I'll donate more to NPR.
Goodell is a JOKE....
doesnt matter now cuz im done with football!
Allen..thanks for a union perspective. I wondered if that was common practice and if not, what is. I realize that NFL players aren't a "normal" unionized workforce but your take sounds practical.
suddenly the players...some of whom can barely right their name....know who to run a multibillion dollar business.....these players are hilarious in their ignorance
These %^&$#@ players are unbelievable, maybe I don't need to watch the NFL anymore.
As an ex union employee and now an employer no union asks for the employers books before negotiating a new contract. They negotiate an increase that is based on the market.The average labor cost vs the total cost of a product provided by a company is around 30%. The NFLPA wants 60%. That is totally unreasonable if you realize the rest of the cost that the owners have to run their organization and make a profit. Forbes publishes the value of the Teams and their operating cost yearly and some of the Teams make a lot and some do not. The players live a lifestyle that is enjoyed by less than 1/2 of 1% of the people in the USA. They have a judge in their pocket and they believe that will play in their favor so they are not willing come to terms on a contract. The players need to get in the real world and get a real job. None of them, De. Smith included have a clue what it cost to run a business or have a clue period.
Unions do not create work, nor does it appear they could run a business for a profit. Mostly, I see unions as leeches. They have no way to produce anything, no way to make money; all they have are people that give them money which reminds me of the protection business which the crimanals run and seems to be well and alive.
Unions will run all things into the ground as they seem to have done to our REPUBLIC. We, the people, need to stand up and make these unions realize we won't accept them destroying our loved sport and more importantly the USA economy.
The sad part is that the Players need some give from the Owners in the areas of health insurance, retirement benefits, more active roster players, less OTAs / full contact practices, and yes, a rookie wage scale in conjunction with a salary floor and cap. But they gave it all away out of a desire for more money and to try to embarrass the Owners.
Why are the Owners expected to pay for so much and yet the Players don't have to come out of pocket for much of anything? Where do the benefits outweigh the upfront dollars in the Player's minds? Players are simply spoiled from all the years of people giving them things....
EAGLEjoe; thank you for that!
As somebody who negotiated two contracts with a company, it seems that both parties are at fault. Do not forget that the owners failed to negotiate the best network deal for themselves and the players so they could be prepared for a lengthy lockout. As for the players not wanting a deal that does not jive. They could have decert a week ago to quicken the process. But where I think the players dropped the ball was not responding to owners last proposal with one of their own. The owners had made some concessions(although I do not know anybody who would be happy if their boss came in and said I am going to give you a raise but base it on your salary from four years ago and you would actually make less money) it still was a significant proposal. Also as far as the argument of opening the books unions have always asked companies to see their ledgers. My company did and thay were losing money and we bargained accordingly and gave them relief. Companies making a profit usually will not open their books. Union should have made a counter proposal and extended for a short period of time. We had a saying you can always go on strike (or decert in this case) but that should be a last resort. In my opinion both parties came up short, the owners had two years to put a legitimate proposal together but instead set their sights on making sure they had cash flow for a lockout(illegal TV contract) but a union should never leave a legitimate proposal on table without respnnding. Thi is called bargaining and the leadership let the members and us fans domn.
As somebody who negotiated two contracts with a company, it seems that both parties are at fault. Do not forget that the owners failed to negotiate the best network deal for themselves and the players so they could be prepared for a lengthy lockout. As for the players not wanting a deal that does not jive. They could have decert a week ago to quicken the process. But where I think the players dropped the ball was not responding to owners last proposal with one of their own. The owners had made some concessions(although I do not know anybody who would be happy if their boss came in and said I am going to give you a raise but base it on your salary from four years ago and you would actually make less money) it still was a significant proposal. Also as far as the argument of opening the books unions have always asked companies to see their ledgers. My company did and thay were losing money and we bargained accordingly and gave them relief. Companies making a profit usually will not open their books. Union should have made a counter proposal and extended for a short period of time. We had a saying you can always go on strike (or decert in this case) but that should be a last resort. In my opinion both parties came up short, the owners had two years to put a legitimate proposal together but instead set their sights on making sure they had cash flow for a lockout(illegal TV contract) but a union should never leave a legitimate proposal on table without respnnding. Thi is called bargaining and the leadership let the members and us fans domn.
The vast majority of Players agreed with the NFLPA that the best way to fight was to De-certify, have some Players file lawsuits, and later reform as a union.
Doesn't that sound legally like conspiracy? Maybe even extortion?
I would love to see the NFL file criminal conspiracy charges against the Players who filed the lawsuits and see them on TV led out in handcuffs to jail.
Axabad, great points. I cannot argue against them.
And SeekWisdom, I've already canceled my Sunday Ticket so I'm with you on that.
Yes, even the best talents have been replaced in the league... it happens every year regardless of my proposal. Teach the younger players that they can be replaced and teach the older players that they don't own the league regardless of their fame or status within the league.
How many great Hall of Fame players have played for different team than their original team on the back end of their careers? Jerry Rice, Marcus Allen, Emmitt Smith, and Joe Montana to name just a few. Manning, Brady, and Brees are already 10 years plus in the league. They will be leaving soon enough anyway, so why not make them an example now. They are replacable!!
Here is the other point... how many would come crying to rejoin the league even at a reduce rate? Most NFL players would come to find out that the little bit of money NORMAL people make isn't viable for them anymore since they got the taste of the good life already.
How many of these College educated players would sound like incompetent idiots when put in a setting outside of football... in a setting where they are not revered or worshiped for their athletic ability as a Professional Football Player? " Do you know who I AM? I'm a Professional Gardener!!!!" Just doesn't have the same ring to it, does it?
The NFL FAN base are the FOOLS to blame for the NFL fiasco. Do you not realize they would not have a product if you didn't pay for game tickets, NFL Sunday Ticket, and NFL fan gear? Don't have a pitty part because you funded their spoiled selfish tirades wanting more. You want leverage as a FAN, BOYCOTT THE NFL in every area! Hockey learned a huge lesson, maybe it is time for the NFL to learn theirs...
Saberstud75 et al,
Fair enough.
But for the sake of argument, why do you feel like I'm completely off base?
Well, thank God you're not running the show Axabad because you'd be putting some of the best talent this league has ever seen on the street.
And should I remind you, it's the owners who rush out in free agency and pay these guys to astronomical salaries i.e., Haynsworth and Peppers last year.
They have only themselves to blame for these bloated contracts not anyone else.
"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Saberstud75 & PriorKnowledge; You guys are funny!
I'm just creating an argument and putting my theory to it. I'm all ears, convince me otherwise... "
DBO6,
Read every other comment on this site. Your comments are the only ones that favor the players/union. All posters, minus you, make valid points. There is your proof. This website wanted to know viewers opinions on the matter, you are trying to change peoples opinions. Stop pushing your agenda!
In today's economy, it sure would be nice to have a job...let alone one that pays millions of dollars! Come on! No more Charlie Sheens needed in this world!! We love our teams and our players but no one is immune to replacement! Hey, wasn't that a movie??? The Replacements??? Here's hoping our football season opens on time--with our favs!!!! Go Steelers!!!!
Dirtybird06, you sound like a NFL player spouting the NFLPA mantra. Players are not owed what the NFLPA has demanded. For instance, the NFLPA was crying about the Players losing health insurance. Its called COBRA and you should easily be able to afford it even on a Rookie Min Contract! I'm sorry but does that mean one less diamond ring?! The owners paid hundreds of Millions of dollars for their respective franchises or the equivalent when dating back to the original AFL era franchises. They pay for all the support personnel, coaching staffs, equipment and training facilities, transportation, security, food and a ton of other things. Who are the Players to dictate how much profit the Owners are "allowed" to make? The Players are paid more than most players could ever make working normal jobs. Are there risks... Yes. But Players are not forced to play. They CHOOSE to play for the financial rewards, yet are demanding still more.
The Players are fools and idiots and I truly hope they get shafted in the Courts. Why? Because at this point, with such litigation, there is no longer a viable way for the Owners to conduct business. My hope is that the Owners decided to combine their interests into a single entity called the NFL. They release ALL CURRENT PLAYERS from their contracts, and conduct their business as they have but with simple profit sharing based on value of each team they get to run. Pay players a MAX of 1 Million a year plus give health insurance as they offered. All contracts with NFL, but assigned via Internal Draft to individual teams. No anti-trust because its a single company. Draft not illegal because the Players sign with the NFL and get assigned a team to work with. IF the Players don't like it, they can sign with the AFL, CFL, or the UFL, as the NFL isn't the only Professional league in America or on the North American continent.
This way the Owners make more money, the Players will eventually cave at a greatly reduced price, and the Fans, yes the FANS, get Professional Football again. Initially it may not be as good but a few seasons down the road.... it won't look any different than it did in 2010. AND the Players would really be Screwed!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Saberstud75 & PriorKnowledge; You guys are funny!
I'm just creating an argument and putting my theory to it. I'm all ears, convince me otherwise...
Last I checked the NFL is a private business and is under no obligation to publicly disclose their financial statements. The Packers are the only publicly held organization and as such their information is available to the public. For those of us who work for privately held companies, how many of us would still have our jobs if we demanded to see the company financials after we are told our salaries will be reduced or there is a salary freeze for the next 2 years. I am sick of the NFLPA saying it's a partnership. IT'S NOT! Players are employees of the team! This will affect the players more than the owners! These are wealthy men for a reason. They have diversified portfolios and can survive the waiting game. Players will cave!!!!!! The names of the players in the litigation should give reason to the players to pause for a sec and consider that these guys can do without their paychecks. Manning made over $16 million last season, Brees more than $15. Let's see how long a guy making $100,000 will last. Let's not even talk about the kid who's not even in the league yet joining the lawsuit! GO PHILLIES!!!
This is total crap. I can't believe that people how make $400K to $20+ Million a year are going to do this. Screw them all. I hope they have to get a job like the rest of the world. I refuse to buy any NFL items at this time. I hope we all do the same. I am a season ticket holder and a die hard NFL fan. I guess I am now a college footbal fan again! Does anyone else in the general pubic have guaranteed health care for life? Do we want it yes but we don't have it and you think you have that right for playing a game!! Are you kidding me!!! I have an idea sell one of your ferraris or live in a slightly above normal house. Why do you think you have the right to see the NFL books? You by a team and you can see all the books you want.
How can their be a anti-trust lawsuit when the players can go work for someone else? Football is a game, and there are other leagues where the players can go. There is the Canadian Football League, the Arena Football League or the UFL; all who would love our caliber of players
Maybe the players should have to be like the rest of us; if they don't like how much they get paid, or their benefits......they can always find a new job doing something else.
"DirtyBird06 is obviously a lawyer for the ex-NFLPA. You can tell by that absolute lawyer-speak "How can anyone....". No one uses phrases like that except lawyers, who are 100% blind to any other argument except their side."
Spot On!!!
Give it a rest DirtyBird06, we're not buying it!
Too much money and greed. Football has ruined itself just as baseball did back in '93'. I'm done. Cancelling my package on Directv. Cancelling plans to go to a game or two. GO ARENA FOOTBALL were they play for peanuts especially when AF2 was up and running! Done!
I'm flattered, er...I think, but I'm the farthest thing from a lawyer or anyone who works or has worked for the NFLPA. I can promise you that.
I'm just a fan of the game as much as anyone else is who is trying to decipher between what's real and what's smoke. And to me, the owners brought this fight to the players when they decided to renegotiate the network deal and then opt out of the current CBA back in 2008. Listen, had Judge Doty ruled in favor of the owners, there would still be a lock-out but only imposed by the league and not forced by the players. Asking for an additional billion off the top without any proof and then in negotiations you drop that number down substantially only tells me you were lying and trying to screw over the players for more money. And not showing proof only backs that theory up.
Again, I don't work for anything NFL or it's players and I've never taken the Bar exam. LMAO
1). the idiot players need to realize that if the teams aren't solvent, then the end result is, no league, teams & no cks to buy three escalades & two houses
2). if you own any type of business, esp private like the nfl, then you are under no obligatation to anyone but yourself.
good luck to the players....maybe they'll be my next waiter at red lobster!
All the players fault and demaurice smith is the main one to blame with his pawn Kessler. Can't believe they turned down the last deal. Owners declare bankruptcy and rebuild our league!
Very much against the players, in todays world they are lucky to have job and get millions to play a sport. May all thier houses, and Bentley cars get foreclosed.
I'm curious, have any of you seen the 'NFL Decision Tree'? The owners were going to lock-out the players regardless if they had access to that 4+ Billion war chest the networks agreed to.
http://www.nfllockout.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/NFL-Decision-Tree1.jpg
Judge Doty came across this gem when he ruled against the league. This single document speaks volumes as to where the league really stood. They had every intention of missing games to bleed the players dry into a submission until they agreed to the extra billion off the top.
Know the facts...
DirtyBird06 is obviously a lawyer for the ex-NFLPA. You can tell by that absolute lawyer-speak "How can anyone....". Noone uses phrases like that except lawyers, who are 100% blind to any other argument except their side.
I really think that the owners want a deal, also most of the players. The problem is too many agents and lawyers involved.
Since I was not in the meetings, anything I say has no proof but what we hear thru the media, but i'll give my opinion.
It is greed on the part of both parties, but the owners have every right to make as much as their able to get. This is not a partnership, as D Smith keeps saying. It is a business and you have an employer (owners) and employees(players).
The NFL needs to
create a better retirement/pension plan for the players of today and yesterday.
They seem to have agreed on that.
They want to reign in salaries for the rookies. Good idea.
They backed off the idea of 18 games, for 2 years and in all likelyhood for good.
They want to slow down the current player salary structure. Owners made it what it is with their big ego's and desire to win, so that will not get adjusted back to 2007 salaries.
I can't stand Lawyers and all this is going to do is line the pockets of these whores.
Congratulations Owners and players!
I gave up my season tickets the year they insisted on seat licenses back in 2002 , after 27 years as season ticket holder and I was just 42 at the time.
Enough is enough and with all the tragedy and death in the world, I have more important things to worry about.
Call me in September when they suddenly come to an agreement..What a joke!
I am totally against the players here they left a great deal on the table. The players don't have to fund new stadiums, they don't have operating expenses, and they certainly don't need an extra $500 million split up between them, they make enough! I'm sick of hearing that the majority of players aren't MILLIONAIRES, they only make the veteran's minimum of $300K. WAAA WAAA WAAA. I wish I made 300k. Save 1/3 of that and you have a million in ten years or less. Absolutely ridiculous. Players are greedy as hell and deserve to lose game checks...
Both the players and owners are to blame.
on one side you have a bunch of money hungry billionaires who only care about their bank accounts, and on the other hand you have a bunch of semi illiterate millionaires who are getting paid more money than the average person will ever make to play a f'ing game.
The NFL has just lost a lifelong fan for good this time! !!!!
An interesting tidbit...
"Despite publicly admitting no club was losing money, that TV ratings, sponsorship money, etc. were at an all time high, the NFL continued to insist on an 18-percent rollback in the players’ share of revenues and continue to deny the NFLPA’s request for justification."
DirtyBird06,
You totally sound like you are on the former NFLPA payroll. It actually would not surprise me if DeMo Smith had trolls out on the internet trying to win over the fan base for his litigations in the future.
My opinion is that DeMo Smith wanted to go to court from day 1. The owners made most of the efforts during the negotiations. Do employees have the right to demand to see audited financial statements for the last 10 years? Really??? If the players are that concerned about their health and future they would invest in retirement and insurance versus big houses, flashy cars, and jewlery. Also, the owners are taking all the financial risk in a very shaky economy. I fully understand that the players risk their bodies on a daily basis on the field. However, members of the U.S. Military take much greater physical risk on a daily basis for a LOT LESS and they do not demand to see financial statements to do so.
DeMaurice Smith will go down as the guy that killed the golden goose that used to be professional football. I will not be renewing my NFL Sunday ticket, buying any game tickets or appearal any time soon either. On the brighter side, I will have more time to spend with my family on Sundays, and I think others should do the same.
The fools on both sides of this arguement would benefit from a season without football to get better in touch with their fan base, the ones that really pay the bills.
All you have to do is look at what the owners were willing to give to the players. They had come down off their 1B request to 325M; mediacal care for life; a fund for retirees with 82M being put in the first two years; a 3rd party--which the players ahve been screaming for for years--to review suspensions for substance abuse. C'mon, the players--or I should say, DeMaurice Smith, never wanted to settle this through negotiation. As I've writtenseveral times, with Judge Doty in their back pocket, they knew they would be going to court. Plus, and this is where the journalists have it wrong, it wasn't the owners who started spouting off to the media, but two players involved in these sham negotiations, Jeff Saturday and Scott Fujita, who went to the press on Tuesday to complain.
How can anyone blame the players when it was the owners that nixed the deal in the first place without the necessary proof that they are, indeed, hemorrhaging money? They insist the 'updated' version of the deal was a good one, but how would they, the union, know that to be true if no real financial history was brought to the forefront? Where they just supposed to trust the owners? The very same owners who tried to receive 'lock-out' insurance money? Because truth be told, had they received that 4+ billion, they would've have done exactly that; locked the players out until they broke the players into a submission. I don't like the game being played in the media by the owners and I cannot believe the support that the public is trying to give them.
I'm curious how you really feel about the situation and not the watered down version that you put on the site.
When was the last time an employee (player) tried to force his employer (the NFL) to open thier financial statements and books to show why they (the employee) could not get a raise.
Answer: never - and now I might be able to afford to go see a game, the same as I did in 1987 in Washington,DC, when I saw the St. Louis Cardinals play the Washington Redskins and J.T. Smith set the record for most receptions in a game.
Quit think about money and think about the fan that pays your salary by attending your GAMES that you get to play for money.
With all the chaos and scary scenerios going on in this mucked-up world...does anyone really give a hoot? I mean come on... this is the "last" thing that keeps me up at night.