Look, he didn't even have the ball. There was no reason for him to block the plate. The injury sucks for him and the Giants, but lets be honest, it was his own fault. He was the only one doing anything against the rules. You're not allowed to block the plate without the ball. Catch the ball first, then at least you have a reason to be in the runners way. thanks for listening.
Alex - 13 years ago
dont change the rules! as a catcher for 10 years, from elementry through high school, iv taken my blows. been knocked unconcious. All that jazz. Its the dangers of being the bull. the man running the show. People wanna knock you off YOUR ground just to touch YOUR plate for a split second. F*** that s***. Gotta step up to that plate and take whats coming or get out of the way. The bench is the place for those who cant handle it. So shut the f**** up and play ball.
rick - 13 years ago
If the rule stays the same, the catcher should be able to drop kick the base runner in the face with his spikes, and then tag him out. One guy is running, one guy is crouching, lets even it up! I like collisions at the plate, I just want the runners to get cut up once in a while, so they think about it before doing it!
Craig - 13 years ago
As a former catcher and football player, I say the collisions aren't anything worse than what you may see in EVERY single play in football. Granted, in football, both players hitting each other are supposed to be wearing equal amounts of protective equipment, but the players definitely expect to crash into one another. This is the same in this instance. If a catcher is going to block home plate in an effort to impede the runner from scoring the run, then he needs to practice being in the exact right spot, and in the proper position to be able to absorb the hit. If the throw to Home isn't where it needs to be, then it's ultimately the catcher's discretion as to whether he wants to put himself in harm's way or not.
Simply put, Posey was out of position, and in the wrong place at the wrong time when the train was coming through.
Heywood - 13 years ago
So what should happen if the catcher isn't blocking the plate but the runner goes out of his way to hit him? Runner interference?
Sbell - 13 years ago
It's pretty simple....if the catchers don't want to get run into, don't block the plate! Leave room for the runner reach the plate, while staying in position to make the catch and tag. Changing the rule to "protect catchers" is ridiculous.
The nuge - 13 years ago
Posey was not blocking the plate and could not defend himself and now one of baseball's bright yound stars is out for the year. If this play happened at 2nd base Cousins would be suspended.
This is simple. If he blocks the plate, you can go thru him. Cousins made no effort to tag the plate, he was purely trying to dislode the ball without trying to get to the plate--which was there to be taken. A cheap shot, pure and simple
Heywood - 13 years ago
http://twitpic.com/52z3zf
The picture says it all. Great breakdown Josh but not supported by the evidence. Posey was NOT blocking the plate. Cousins had a clean path to the plate but chose not to take it. In fact, by heading towards Posey instead of the plate he made it more likely Posey would tag him out if he handled the throw. Choosing to level Posey with a blind side hit instead of choosing to slide safely into home is a play that doesn't belong in baseball.
Josh - 13 years ago
All catchers are taught that they can't block the plate without out the ball. Watch the replay, when Posey clearly sets up to receive the ball while blocking the plate initially. His intent is clearly to impede the runner's path to the plate and force a difficult slide. Instead this often initiates contact. The throw pulls him off that position leaving him exposed in a awkward position. In his rush to apply the tag he does move the leg back to block the plate and throws his body at the runner (blocking the plate late as it turned out) the fact that he didn't have the ball at that point is irrelevant to the runner he assumed Posey had the ball by then. Not his fault Posey moved before he secured it. The runner has a split second decision to make. He anticipated Posey to block the plate. Both players anticipated contact. Had Posey made the tag the ex-players turned analysts and fans would praise him for a great play. If the runner scored from initiating contact to knock the ball loose and no one is injured its a great play by the runner. We have to stop judging plays like this as "dirty" or "clean" based on an unfortunate injury.
Chris - 13 years ago
Someone tell me the difference in a player barrelling into the catcher (to obviously knock the ball out of the play) and what Jeter (?) did in the playoffs a few years ago (when he slapped the ball out of the first baseman's glove)? The guy barrelling into home plate is safe (if the tag is not made) yet Jeter was called out for interference?
Heywood Jablome - 13 years ago
This star driven culture lines the owner's pockets. In another era I'd agree that the rule wouldn't change, but just as NFL rules now heavily protect the QB, I think MLB owners looking to protect their investments will very receptive to avoiding unnecessary injuries. Besides league already bans catcher's from blocking the plate, it just goes enforced. I say treat home plate just like the other bases (w/ runner and defensive interference) as intended by the rules.
Good discussion of current rules:
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/26/should-catchers-be-banned-from-blocking-home-plate/
Chris - 13 years ago
A Marlins baserunner was thrown out at home plate earlier in the game precisely because he tried to slide around the tag and avoid running into Posey. Are you seriously suggesting that Cousins as the potential winning run should have taken the chance of being tagged out simply because a collision with a "star player that everybody wants to see play" might result in someone getting hurt? I've seen a lot of highly competitive people crash into other players during rec league SOFTBALL. You think that a professional player is going to worry about being too rough.
The Giant's J.T. Snow crashed into Pudge Rodriguez exactly the same way in the 2003 NLDS. Nobody complained about it then or any other time in baseball's history. Enough with this star driven culture. Just play the game.
photawn - 13 years ago
I agree with Hewood. Posey was not blocking the plate, but was out in front of it. Cousins, on the other hand, was definitely looking to initiate the contact. Watch the replay and see Cousins lower his shoulder. In fact, Cousins even admitted after the game that he knew his best chance to score was to dislodge the ball from Posey. All that said, I don't think Cousins acted maliciously. He's just the 25th man on the roster, trying to do anything he can to stick with the big club.
I doubt there will be any rule change. If it does change, it will have to be something along the lines of "catchers can't block the plate (with or without the ball), and runners must slide". Even then, how do you adjudicate a situation like this? Should Cousins be called out? Should he be suspended? Fined? Look at what the NFL and NHL have done with shots to the head.
Hewood Jablome - 13 years ago
In this case Posey wasn't completely blocking the plate. Cousins had a lane to the plate and would have been safe if he just slid. Watch the replay. Cousins went left to create contact when he had plenty of room to go right. In my book that's unacceptable. Ramming the catcher adds nothing to baseball except the potential for severe injuries that remove fan favorites from the game. It was completely unnecessary. Just a cheap shot from the last guy on the roster trying to make a name for himself.
Mike - 13 years ago
@Tom - Are you serious? The catcher can't see the runner because he's tracking the ball? Uh, it is illegal to block the plate without the ball. If the catcher is blocking the plate without the ball they get what they deserve. In fact, that is when they get hurt. When they're cheating. If they are following the rules by actually having the ball and blocking the plate, they tend to not be a compromising position that leads to injury.
FYI, 2nd basemen have to track the ball too, aren't blocking a base and have their back to the runner a good deal of the time. Yet, they still get blown up all the damn time. Kinda hard to see the runner coming when you're tracking the ball AND your back is to them.
One more thing. Baseball players have incredible peripheral vision. Throws to the plate come from the same field of vision as the runner. Catchers can see them just fine, they choose to put their bodies in harms way to protect the plate just as 2nd basemen under the risks of turning a double play with a runner bearing down behind them. Its an inherent risk that players understand everytime they step on the field. No rule change needed.
ton - 13 years ago
Posey was not blocking the plate, there was obvious room to slide and avoid contact and the throw was a good one if you have any idea of what a good throw to home is, if it wasn't a good throw then there would be no collision.
Brett - 13 years ago
It did not look like Posey was blocking the plate. There was plenty of room to slide by him. The runner veered left of the basepath to take Posey out. If Posey was blocking home, then I say it is a good play by the runner with unfortunate, unintended consequences. If Posey wasn't blocking the plate, then MLB needs to take disciplinary action before Giant pitchers do.
Tom - 13 years ago
At all other levels of baseball you have to slide or give yourself up. The difference between C and 2B is that the catcher can't see the guy coming if he is tracking the ball. 2Bs can see teh runner when turning a double play. Leaves catchers in a vulnerable position, and both players can get hurt. Can't believe some of you guys...
Mike - 13 years ago
I agree, Nic. Catchers need to remember that they don't have to block the plate, and if they do, they have to be prepared for this sort of outcome.
2nd basemen have it much worse than catchers. They don't have all that equipment as protection, and a good bit of the time, they don't have the play in front of them. They are always getting blown up by baserunners. I don't hear anyone clammoring for their protection...
Mike - 13 years ago
If they are going to prevent players from running over catchers, then they will have to outlaw catchers blocking the plate with their shinguards to prevent a tag of the plate. It looks like the bad throw is what got Buster in the position that twisted him up.
Bill - 13 years ago
Luckily for catchers they are not forced into blocking home plate. Don't want to get hit? Don't stand in the way of a 200 lb athlete with a full head of steam running right at you. Done.
Nic - 13 years ago
It's pretty simple, if the catcher doesn't want to get hurt, don't block the plate. The runner is entitled to his real estate just as much as you are.
Look, he didn't even have the ball. There was no reason for him to block the plate. The injury sucks for him and the Giants, but lets be honest, it was his own fault. He was the only one doing anything against the rules. You're not allowed to block the plate without the ball. Catch the ball first, then at least you have a reason to be in the runners way. thanks for listening.
dont change the rules! as a catcher for 10 years, from elementry through high school, iv taken my blows. been knocked unconcious. All that jazz. Its the dangers of being the bull. the man running the show. People wanna knock you off YOUR ground just to touch YOUR plate for a split second. F*** that s***. Gotta step up to that plate and take whats coming or get out of the way. The bench is the place for those who cant handle it. So shut the f**** up and play ball.
If the rule stays the same, the catcher should be able to drop kick the base runner in the face with his spikes, and then tag him out. One guy is running, one guy is crouching, lets even it up! I like collisions at the plate, I just want the runners to get cut up once in a while, so they think about it before doing it!
As a former catcher and football player, I say the collisions aren't anything worse than what you may see in EVERY single play in football. Granted, in football, both players hitting each other are supposed to be wearing equal amounts of protective equipment, but the players definitely expect to crash into one another. This is the same in this instance. If a catcher is going to block home plate in an effort to impede the runner from scoring the run, then he needs to practice being in the exact right spot, and in the proper position to be able to absorb the hit. If the throw to Home isn't where it needs to be, then it's ultimately the catcher's discretion as to whether he wants to put himself in harm's way or not.
Simply put, Posey was out of position, and in the wrong place at the wrong time when the train was coming through.
So what should happen if the catcher isn't blocking the plate but the runner goes out of his way to hit him? Runner interference?
It's pretty simple....if the catchers don't want to get run into, don't block the plate! Leave room for the runner reach the plate, while staying in position to make the catch and tag. Changing the rule to "protect catchers" is ridiculous.
Posey was not blocking the plate and could not defend himself and now one of baseball's bright yound stars is out for the year. If this play happened at 2nd base Cousins would be suspended.
This is simple. If he blocks the plate, you can go thru him. Cousins made no effort to tag the plate, he was purely trying to dislode the ball without trying to get to the plate--which was there to be taken. A cheap shot, pure and simple
http://twitpic.com/52z3zf
The picture says it all. Great breakdown Josh but not supported by the evidence. Posey was NOT blocking the plate. Cousins had a clean path to the plate but chose not to take it. In fact, by heading towards Posey instead of the plate he made it more likely Posey would tag him out if he handled the throw. Choosing to level Posey with a blind side hit instead of choosing to slide safely into home is a play that doesn't belong in baseball.
All catchers are taught that they can't block the plate without out the ball. Watch the replay, when Posey clearly sets up to receive the ball while blocking the plate initially. His intent is clearly to impede the runner's path to the plate and force a difficult slide. Instead this often initiates contact. The throw pulls him off that position leaving him exposed in a awkward position. In his rush to apply the tag he does move the leg back to block the plate and throws his body at the runner (blocking the plate late as it turned out) the fact that he didn't have the ball at that point is irrelevant to the runner he assumed Posey had the ball by then. Not his fault Posey moved before he secured it. The runner has a split second decision to make. He anticipated Posey to block the plate. Both players anticipated contact. Had Posey made the tag the ex-players turned analysts and fans would praise him for a great play. If the runner scored from initiating contact to knock the ball loose and no one is injured its a great play by the runner. We have to stop judging plays like this as "dirty" or "clean" based on an unfortunate injury.
Someone tell me the difference in a player barrelling into the catcher (to obviously knock the ball out of the play) and what Jeter (?) did in the playoffs a few years ago (when he slapped the ball out of the first baseman's glove)? The guy barrelling into home plate is safe (if the tag is not made) yet Jeter was called out for interference?
This star driven culture lines the owner's pockets. In another era I'd agree that the rule wouldn't change, but just as NFL rules now heavily protect the QB, I think MLB owners looking to protect their investments will very receptive to avoiding unnecessary injuries. Besides league already bans catcher's from blocking the plate, it just goes enforced. I say treat home plate just like the other bases (w/ runner and defensive interference) as intended by the rules.
Good discussion of current rules:
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/26/should-catchers-be-banned-from-blocking-home-plate/
A Marlins baserunner was thrown out at home plate earlier in the game precisely because he tried to slide around the tag and avoid running into Posey. Are you seriously suggesting that Cousins as the potential winning run should have taken the chance of being tagged out simply because a collision with a "star player that everybody wants to see play" might result in someone getting hurt? I've seen a lot of highly competitive people crash into other players during rec league SOFTBALL. You think that a professional player is going to worry about being too rough.
The Giant's J.T. Snow crashed into Pudge Rodriguez exactly the same way in the 2003 NLDS. Nobody complained about it then or any other time in baseball's history. Enough with this star driven culture. Just play the game.
I agree with Hewood. Posey was not blocking the plate, but was out in front of it. Cousins, on the other hand, was definitely looking to initiate the contact. Watch the replay and see Cousins lower his shoulder. In fact, Cousins even admitted after the game that he knew his best chance to score was to dislodge the ball from Posey. All that said, I don't think Cousins acted maliciously. He's just the 25th man on the roster, trying to do anything he can to stick with the big club.
I doubt there will be any rule change. If it does change, it will have to be something along the lines of "catchers can't block the plate (with or without the ball), and runners must slide". Even then, how do you adjudicate a situation like this? Should Cousins be called out? Should he be suspended? Fined? Look at what the NFL and NHL have done with shots to the head.
In this case Posey wasn't completely blocking the plate. Cousins had a lane to the plate and would have been safe if he just slid. Watch the replay. Cousins went left to create contact when he had plenty of room to go right. In my book that's unacceptable. Ramming the catcher adds nothing to baseball except the potential for severe injuries that remove fan favorites from the game. It was completely unnecessary. Just a cheap shot from the last guy on the roster trying to make a name for himself.
@Tom - Are you serious? The catcher can't see the runner because he's tracking the ball? Uh, it is illegal to block the plate without the ball. If the catcher is blocking the plate without the ball they get what they deserve. In fact, that is when they get hurt. When they're cheating. If they are following the rules by actually having the ball and blocking the plate, they tend to not be a compromising position that leads to injury.
FYI, 2nd basemen have to track the ball too, aren't blocking a base and have their back to the runner a good deal of the time. Yet, they still get blown up all the damn time. Kinda hard to see the runner coming when you're tracking the ball AND your back is to them.
One more thing. Baseball players have incredible peripheral vision. Throws to the plate come from the same field of vision as the runner. Catchers can see them just fine, they choose to put their bodies in harms way to protect the plate just as 2nd basemen under the risks of turning a double play with a runner bearing down behind them. Its an inherent risk that players understand everytime they step on the field. No rule change needed.
Posey was not blocking the plate, there was obvious room to slide and avoid contact and the throw was a good one if you have any idea of what a good throw to home is, if it wasn't a good throw then there would be no collision.
It did not look like Posey was blocking the plate. There was plenty of room to slide by him. The runner veered left of the basepath to take Posey out. If Posey was blocking home, then I say it is a good play by the runner with unfortunate, unintended consequences. If Posey wasn't blocking the plate, then MLB needs to take disciplinary action before Giant pitchers do.
At all other levels of baseball you have to slide or give yourself up. The difference between C and 2B is that the catcher can't see the guy coming if he is tracking the ball. 2Bs can see teh runner when turning a double play. Leaves catchers in a vulnerable position, and both players can get hurt. Can't believe some of you guys...
I agree, Nic. Catchers need to remember that they don't have to block the plate, and if they do, they have to be prepared for this sort of outcome.
2nd basemen have it much worse than catchers. They don't have all that equipment as protection, and a good bit of the time, they don't have the play in front of them. They are always getting blown up by baserunners. I don't hear anyone clammoring for their protection...
If they are going to prevent players from running over catchers, then they will have to outlaw catchers blocking the plate with their shinguards to prevent a tag of the plate. It looks like the bad throw is what got Buster in the position that twisted him up.
Luckily for catchers they are not forced into blocking home plate. Don't want to get hit? Don't stand in the way of a 200 lb athlete with a full head of steam running right at you. Done.
It's pretty simple, if the catcher doesn't want to get hurt, don't block the plate. The runner is entitled to his real estate just as much as you are.