Wow...you people are extremely ignorant of the obvious... How could anyone not believe that Jesus was, and is, the ultimate socialist? I am a Christian and I am saying this. None of the counterpoints that were made in this article as to why Jesus is not a socialist are completely unrelated and straight-up not true. The 80-some percent of you that say Jesus wasn't a socialist are either blind or are to selfish and greedy to admit that capitalism is completely against everything Jesus taught.
Edwin - 12 years ago
Gene: so a monarchy with absolute rule is great? Well, I've just found the first Thomas Hobbes follower I've ever seen.
Edwin - 12 years ago
Alex, I agree that the bible completely advocates socialism. And to all the crazy raving conservative idiots who are going on about this crap about how health care is against jesus, well take a gander at the new testament. Who's this commie who says that helping the poor is good? Well, that's Jesus.
And you all that are going to say things to me like "Get the **** out of here, you atheist commie", I'm not a communist. I'm a socialist. And the main cause of war here is religion. Look at Al Qaeda? The "war on terrorism" is about religion, and they(the government of the United States of America) say that it is our primary concern. Without religion we wouldn't have most terrorism, or the Holocaust, or this conversation to debate about if this religious leader was a socialist. Religion would be best if it were just in a storybook. Or never be conceived. But people are stupid enough to follow a book written a few millennia ago by a person who had WAY too much spare time, was probably rich royalty(they could write), and had a great idea for a novel.
Just my take on things. Good day.
Gene - 13 years ago
I do not believe for a second that Jesus was a socialist. Socialism is built on the notion of covetousness, and it also takes away the individual's responsibility for charity as the government usurps it - thus leading to the further advancement of feeling entitled. Capitalism fits with the notion that the more one has, the greater one's responsibility to use it for good. The best government is that of a good king - emphasis on the word good. But only the King's rule will be truly just.
David Geffeney - 13 years ago
He was socialistic indeed. I am a christian who has read the Bible, and even wrote a book on how socialistic the early church was. Going deep even into Talmudic tradition, one can see quickly how wealthy capitalists who converted into Christianity truly were reborn.
" Christians" who cling to the notion that Jesus advocated personal property over the needs of others have missed the most critical component to a true life of discipleship with Jesus.
Alex the Christian - 13 years ago
I agree that many people are trying to take the bible out of context and use it to try to make a point, that if they had actually studied the bible, would be moot. The Camel thru the eye of the needle comment had to do with those that loved possesions. I have heard people say that the bible says that money is the root of all evil....but it's the "love" of money, that is the root of all evil. (paraphrasing here) Either way, if you read and study responsibly then you will see that the bible is about the individual's relationship with God. Sorry Alex....your wrong.
middleright - 13 years ago
Some people just shouldn't write about those things which they don't understand. Jesus directed all things to the individual because it is the individuals relationship with God that determines whether that individual enters into heaven. Your relationship with God is personal, which is quite anti-socialistic. It is your behavior, not a groups behavior which determines the outcome.
Robert Young , Sr - 13 years ago
When God created the world and made man, He made a garden, called the Garden of Eden. When he made Adam, He told Adam to tend to the garden, to me that is work, doing something to earn your keep. God told Adam, when He removed him from the garden, he would have to work, God never wanted welfare, He wanted people to work.
casey Kahler - 13 years ago
Alex,, the spiritually dead don't understand the things of God ! Jesus was telling the rich young ruler to sell all his possessions and give to the poor because he wanted to "DO" something to inherit eternal life,,,, Jesus is eternal life,,, if you are not willing to lose everything for the sake of Christ then you are not worthy of HIM ! He wasn't telling us to sell everything and give it away but we are to be willing to should he require it, Deny yourself take up your cross daily and follow me ! Love your enemies, pray for those who spitefully use you ! Love God, love others !!!
Thomas - 13 years ago
The most off-base comments here are from hate mongering, illiterate atheists.
It's becoming a defining characteristic of atheists and the socialist left.
Richard - 13 years ago
@Alex
Perhaps YOU should read the Bible. Only this time when you read it, be man enough to read it without trying to change it to the way that you want. He NEVER told everyone to give away all their money. If you had any sense you would know that He was talking about was the greedy money lovers that chose to love their money over God. DUH! Also try reading (if you are able to truly read), Mark 14:7 where He talks about you can help the poor anytime (paraphrased), this was in reference to using OUR OWN money for what we choose to use it for. WAIT, how can that be???? That sounds like capitalism. Well mercy me!
Elisa Hubbard - 13 years ago
Absolutely not, because Jesus said that we would ALWAYS HAVE THE POOR with us, and he always taught that his followers should HAVE CHARITY (LOVE). He also, taught that we should GIVE TO CEASAR WHAT IS TO CEASAR (GOVERNMENT) AND TO GOD WHAT IS TO GOD (TITHE AND OFFERING).
NoSpankFrank - 13 years ago
The difference between helping the poor during Jesus' time and today is a matter of conscience. During Jesus' time there were no big banks, large corporations, large hiring manufacturers. There was no jobs or economy to speak of. The poor were poor because they were willing to work but no economy to support jobs. Today there are millions of jobs available but you cannot get a large portion of the population to work. They ask, "why work when the government gives me free housing, phones, food stamps, medical assistance, medicine, transportation, insurance, etrc.?" So they refuse to work. NO WORK, NO EAT.
NoSpankFrank - 13 years ago
The difference between helping the poor during Jesus' time and today is a matter of conscience. During Jesus' time there were no big banks, large corporations, large hiring manufacturers. There was no jobs or economy to speak of. The poor were poor because they were willing to work but no economy to support jobs. Today there are millions of jobs available but you cannot get a large portion of the population to work. They ask, "why work when the government gives me free housing, phones, food stamps, medical assistance, medicine, transportation, insurance, etrc.." So they refuse to work. NO WORK, NO NEAT.
Alex - 13 years ago
Let me get this straight:
Jesus Christ, the man who told us that the only way to get into Heaven was to give all your money to the poor *wasn't* a socialist?!
What the hell was he then? A capitalist? I doubt that seriously!
Christians really need to do themselves a favor and actually READ the book they hold so dearly...
Glitchy - 13 years ago
Jesus said " I am the Good Shepherd, I leave the 99 and go after the one lost sheep"... this is statement does not reflect the "sacrifice the one for the good of the many" mindset that is the foundation for a socialist / collectivist worldview. Clearly Jesus puts utmost value on the individual and not just the group.
Although there are some "collectivist" themes in the bible ( mainly in the new testament in regards to how the church ran it's finances), there is no indication that Christ was a socialist. The church operated as a sect of the established Jewish religion, and therefore would have needed to "collect" funding to operate much like any non-profit organization today would. Anyone who confuses this for a Socialist State is making a grave error.
Logan Davis - 13 years ago
It takes a huge leap of faith to hold to the notion that Jesus was not a real person. There are so many collaborating sources that refer to Jesus, even post resurrection. So, not even secular historical sources support your theory. But, if you have to admit Jesus was a real individual, then you open yourself up to the potential significance of said individual. This could ultimately lead to the question of his deity and, by extension, what that means for you. And that makes a free spirit atheist all sorts of uncomfortable.
Sean Patriot - 13 years ago
You needed another section on this poll: "Was Jesus Christ ever even a real person"
Wow...you people are extremely ignorant of the obvious... How could anyone not believe that Jesus was, and is, the ultimate socialist? I am a Christian and I am saying this. None of the counterpoints that were made in this article as to why Jesus is not a socialist are completely unrelated and straight-up not true. The 80-some percent of you that say Jesus wasn't a socialist are either blind or are to selfish and greedy to admit that capitalism is completely against everything Jesus taught.
Gene: so a monarchy with absolute rule is great? Well, I've just found the first Thomas Hobbes follower I've ever seen.
Alex, I agree that the bible completely advocates socialism. And to all the crazy raving conservative idiots who are going on about this crap about how health care is against jesus, well take a gander at the new testament. Who's this commie who says that helping the poor is good? Well, that's Jesus.
And you all that are going to say things to me like "Get the **** out of here, you atheist commie", I'm not a communist. I'm a socialist. And the main cause of war here is religion. Look at Al Qaeda? The "war on terrorism" is about religion, and they(the government of the United States of America) say that it is our primary concern. Without religion we wouldn't have most terrorism, or the Holocaust, or this conversation to debate about if this religious leader was a socialist. Religion would be best if it were just in a storybook. Or never be conceived. But people are stupid enough to follow a book written a few millennia ago by a person who had WAY too much spare time, was probably rich royalty(they could write), and had a great idea for a novel.
Just my take on things. Good day.
I do not believe for a second that Jesus was a socialist. Socialism is built on the notion of covetousness, and it also takes away the individual's responsibility for charity as the government usurps it - thus leading to the further advancement of feeling entitled. Capitalism fits with the notion that the more one has, the greater one's responsibility to use it for good. The best government is that of a good king - emphasis on the word good. But only the King's rule will be truly just.
He was socialistic indeed. I am a christian who has read the Bible, and even wrote a book on how socialistic the early church was. Going deep even into Talmudic tradition, one can see quickly how wealthy capitalists who converted into Christianity truly were reborn.
" Christians" who cling to the notion that Jesus advocated personal property over the needs of others have missed the most critical component to a true life of discipleship with Jesus.
I agree that many people are trying to take the bible out of context and use it to try to make a point, that if they had actually studied the bible, would be moot. The Camel thru the eye of the needle comment had to do with those that loved possesions. I have heard people say that the bible says that money is the root of all evil....but it's the "love" of money, that is the root of all evil. (paraphrasing here) Either way, if you read and study responsibly then you will see that the bible is about the individual's relationship with God. Sorry Alex....your wrong.
Some people just shouldn't write about those things which they don't understand. Jesus directed all things to the individual because it is the individuals relationship with God that determines whether that individual enters into heaven. Your relationship with God is personal, which is quite anti-socialistic. It is your behavior, not a groups behavior which determines the outcome.
When God created the world and made man, He made a garden, called the Garden of Eden. When he made Adam, He told Adam to tend to the garden, to me that is work, doing something to earn your keep. God told Adam, when He removed him from the garden, he would have to work, God never wanted welfare, He wanted people to work.
Alex,, the spiritually dead don't understand the things of God ! Jesus was telling the rich young ruler to sell all his possessions and give to the poor because he wanted to "DO" something to inherit eternal life,,,, Jesus is eternal life,,, if you are not willing to lose everything for the sake of Christ then you are not worthy of HIM ! He wasn't telling us to sell everything and give it away but we are to be willing to should he require it, Deny yourself take up your cross daily and follow me ! Love your enemies, pray for those who spitefully use you ! Love God, love others !!!
The most off-base comments here are from hate mongering, illiterate atheists.
It's becoming a defining characteristic of atheists and the socialist left.
@Alex
Perhaps YOU should read the Bible. Only this time when you read it, be man enough to read it without trying to change it to the way that you want. He NEVER told everyone to give away all their money. If you had any sense you would know that He was talking about was the greedy money lovers that chose to love their money over God. DUH! Also try reading (if you are able to truly read), Mark 14:7 where He talks about you can help the poor anytime (paraphrased), this was in reference to using OUR OWN money for what we choose to use it for. WAIT, how can that be???? That sounds like capitalism. Well mercy me!
Absolutely not, because Jesus said that we would ALWAYS HAVE THE POOR with us, and he always taught that his followers should HAVE CHARITY (LOVE). He also, taught that we should GIVE TO CEASAR WHAT IS TO CEASAR (GOVERNMENT) AND TO GOD WHAT IS TO GOD (TITHE AND OFFERING).
The difference between helping the poor during Jesus' time and today is a matter of conscience. During Jesus' time there were no big banks, large corporations, large hiring manufacturers. There was no jobs or economy to speak of. The poor were poor because they were willing to work but no economy to support jobs. Today there are millions of jobs available but you cannot get a large portion of the population to work. They ask, "why work when the government gives me free housing, phones, food stamps, medical assistance, medicine, transportation, insurance, etrc.?" So they refuse to work. NO WORK, NO EAT.
The difference between helping the poor during Jesus' time and today is a matter of conscience. During Jesus' time there were no big banks, large corporations, large hiring manufacturers. There was no jobs or economy to speak of. The poor were poor because they were willing to work but no economy to support jobs. Today there are millions of jobs available but you cannot get a large portion of the population to work. They ask, "why work when the government gives me free housing, phones, food stamps, medical assistance, medicine, transportation, insurance, etrc.." So they refuse to work. NO WORK, NO NEAT.
Let me get this straight:
Jesus Christ, the man who told us that the only way to get into Heaven was to give all your money to the poor *wasn't* a socialist?!
What the hell was he then? A capitalist? I doubt that seriously!
Christians really need to do themselves a favor and actually READ the book they hold so dearly...
Jesus said " I am the Good Shepherd, I leave the 99 and go after the one lost sheep"... this is statement does not reflect the "sacrifice the one for the good of the many" mindset that is the foundation for a socialist / collectivist worldview. Clearly Jesus puts utmost value on the individual and not just the group.
Although there are some "collectivist" themes in the bible ( mainly in the new testament in regards to how the church ran it's finances), there is no indication that Christ was a socialist. The church operated as a sect of the established Jewish religion, and therefore would have needed to "collect" funding to operate much like any non-profit organization today would. Anyone who confuses this for a Socialist State is making a grave error.
It takes a huge leap of faith to hold to the notion that Jesus was not a real person. There are so many collaborating sources that refer to Jesus, even post resurrection. So, not even secular historical sources support your theory. But, if you have to admit Jesus was a real individual, then you open yourself up to the potential significance of said individual. This could ultimately lead to the question of his deity and, by extension, what that means for you. And that makes a free spirit atheist all sorts of uncomfortable.
You needed another section on this poll: "Was Jesus Christ ever even a real person"