Our military are mission focused, they are trained and indoctrinated to never waver short of taking the objective. Defeatist talk is absolutely anathema in our military culture.
Our politicians will persist as long as there is a glimmer of hope that America can somehow prevail, anything less is seen as a prelude to political suicide.
Once we commit to war and its horrendous consequences in America casualties and KIAs, it becomes nearly impossible to level with the American people -- to say that the effort and sacrifice was anything but necessary and ultimately a success.
All of this strongly mediates against candor and unbiased assessments from both military and political leadership once we are engaged.
The Bush response to 9-11 was initially precise and focused in Afghanistan. It should have been kept punitive and swift followed by an unrelenting effort to incrementally hunt down and exterminate al Qaeda's core leadership and infrastructure worldwide.
Instead we ineffectively lingered in Afghanistan, and embellished the so called War on Terrorism with an unnecessary and unjustified invasion of Iraq. In effect America willfully walked into bin Ladens' trap with both feet.
Ten years later we are still ensnarled. Iraq is in a shambles, and Afghanistan has become a veritable quagmire that may soon draw the US into a broader regional conflict that includes Pakistan.
None of this is will change unless the American people become committed, vocal, and activated to end it forthwith.
zargon - 13 years ago
Get out of there as soon as possible and get out of the middle east. If we leave them alone
they will go back to killing each other. No one has ever won there, it's where Empires go to dye.
Realist - 13 years ago
The goal should be to get the F* Out!
Harry - 13 years ago
In January, 1968, President Lyndon Johnson finally found in his new Secretary of Defense, Clark Clifford, an adviser willing and able to persuade the president to rethink a losing commitment to "success" in Viet-Nam. President Obama should find a modern day Clifford and listen to him.
The notion that "success" in Afghanistan can be achieved by killing all the bad guys is as irrational and morally repulsive as the notion of victory-by-body count was in Viet-Nam. Withdrawal from Afghanistan under almost any conditions not clearly dishonorable would be preferable to staying the present course with its enormous costs in blood and treasure--ours and theirs.
JlkJrh - 13 years ago
We shouldn't have a goal there! They have their own problems, just like we have ours. I (and many many other americans) believe its about time for the American government to focus on the American government. We need to bring everyone home and stop using war and excuses for our own personal gain. This shouldn't even be an issue, but since our greed has made it one, we should do everything we can separate ourselves so the target on our back doesn't get any bigger.
mrpfla - 13 years ago
We should completely remove ourselves from the Middle East. The whole reason that al Qaeda and other extremist groups hate us in the first place is because of our involvement there. It started with our presence in Saudi Arabia in 1989 (foreign troops on their holy ground) and just snowballed as we increased our influence and presence all over the Middle East.
A few weeks ago Ron Paul stated in a GOP Presidential Candidate debate that they hate us for being there and as long as we have boots on the ground there, be it fighting soldiers, bases, or embassies, al Qaeda and likeminded extremists will hate us. He suggested that the first thing we should do to calm things down was to completely remove ourselves from the equation. When the people there want change, they will get it. Until then, as long as we occupy their land, we will be hated.
When Ron Paul said that in the debate, the crowd booed him. Then Rick Santorum ridiculed him right there on the stage. And then the audience applauded and cheered Santorum who had said that they hated us for our freedoms and way of life. It's this backwards thinking that makes this war so unwinnable. Americans need to wake up and do a little research before eating up every piece of garbage that is fed to us by the media.
For every "terrorist" that we kill (truthfully they are more often just Taliban fighters), another one signs up to fight. The longer we stay there, the more people hate us for being there. After 10 years, you'd think that we would be able to kill every single Taliban fighter there is. Ever hear the expression that "one man defending his home is worth the same as 20 paid mercenaries"? I hate to call our military paid mercenaries, but the people of Afghanistan are absolutely defending their own homes and that is why we cannot win. Sure, some people want us there, but a lot of people – those being the only ones willing to take up arms – do not want us there. We have the best training and weapons available, but they have the heart. They care what happens to their homeland and will do whatever it takes (guerilla warfare, martyrdom, etc.) to get westerners (non-Muslims in particular) off their lands.
I do worry that if we completely leave the Middle East that al Qaeda and such groups will use it to rally their troops and say that they defeated us (because let's face it, all leaders use BS rhetoric), but I also think that if the people truly want change at some point, they will do it themselves. Libya, Egypt, and Tunisia are all good examples. Popular uprisings brought huge change. If the people of Afghanistan want change, they have seen it happen and they can and will make it happen. It is not up to us to build a democratic government when the indigenous population never asked for one.
For whatever reason, the mainstream media will not talk about the true reasons they hate us. The government will not tell us the real reason that we are hated and us individuals are at risk of being attacked by a random terrorist. Osama bin Laden had been quoted many times as saying he hated us for our imperialistic government and he believed that it is up to all Muslims to defeat us (this is where jihad comes in – although he preached violent jihad [versus the normal/non-violent day-to-day that virtually all Muslims engage in] because going through the political route gave legitimacy to our government’s actions). If we'd leave the Middle East, we'd be safer.
I would like to see us completely remove all troops/bases/embassies/etc from the Middle East and not use our political muscle to influence policy in any of those countries. We can still buy their oil, but we shouldn’t try to affect their governments. We should focus our efforts on intelligence operations, which we've been doing great at for years now. The CIA needs to keep some people in the Middle East doing undercover work, but that's it. It'd be cheaper and likely more effective because I believe if
Robert - 13 years ago
Afghanistan is a land of vast mineral resources. We should not let the billions of dollars and thousands of lives invested in this venture go without a return. Rare earth minerals mined from Afghanistan could end our dependence on China for them. Also Afghanistan has the world's largest gold mine that we should exploit.
Mistkoko - 13 years ago
Get out and let them settle it themselfs. It's none of our business. Stop giving them money.
gojoego - 13 years ago
it was/is much greater than the Taliban. A stable government in Paki would have helped unveil individuals like AQ Kahn. Many are to blame for those actions, not just Paki. Regardless US should have invested more earlier in Paki etc. when they had a real chance, the 8Os error. How do we move forward? We build Pakistan.
george girard - 13 years ago
bring the troops home
James Silverton - 13 years ago
our goal in Afghanistan must be to get the hell out of there! There is no point in spending another moment there. The bad guys we are getting are via drones and special forces not by conventional combat. Simple economics are going to force our hand on this anyway so lets get it done now. Also the Bush/Cheney privatized military system must be repealed to end the economic incentive to go to war.
Our military are mission focused, they are trained and indoctrinated to never waver short of taking the objective. Defeatist talk is absolutely anathema in our military culture.
Our politicians will persist as long as there is a glimmer of hope that America can somehow prevail, anything less is seen as a prelude to political suicide.
Once we commit to war and its horrendous consequences in America casualties and KIAs, it becomes nearly impossible to level with the American people -- to say that the effort and sacrifice was anything but necessary and ultimately a success.
All of this strongly mediates against candor and unbiased assessments from both military and political leadership once we are engaged.
The Bush response to 9-11 was initially precise and focused in Afghanistan. It should have been kept punitive and swift followed by an unrelenting effort to incrementally hunt down and exterminate al Qaeda's core leadership and infrastructure worldwide.
Instead we ineffectively lingered in Afghanistan, and embellished the so called War on Terrorism with an unnecessary and unjustified invasion of Iraq. In effect America willfully walked into bin Ladens' trap with both feet.
Ten years later we are still ensnarled. Iraq is in a shambles, and Afghanistan has become a veritable quagmire that may soon draw the US into a broader regional conflict that includes Pakistan.
None of this is will change unless the American people become committed, vocal, and activated to end it forthwith.
Get out of there as soon as possible and get out of the middle east. If we leave them alone
they will go back to killing each other. No one has ever won there, it's where Empires go to dye.
The goal should be to get the F* Out!
In January, 1968, President Lyndon Johnson finally found in his new Secretary of Defense, Clark Clifford, an adviser willing and able to persuade the president to rethink a losing commitment to "success" in Viet-Nam. President Obama should find a modern day Clifford and listen to him.
The notion that "success" in Afghanistan can be achieved by killing all the bad guys is as irrational and morally repulsive as the notion of victory-by-body count was in Viet-Nam. Withdrawal from Afghanistan under almost any conditions not clearly dishonorable would be preferable to staying the present course with its enormous costs in blood and treasure--ours and theirs.
We shouldn't have a goal there! They have their own problems, just like we have ours. I (and many many other americans) believe its about time for the American government to focus on the American government. We need to bring everyone home and stop using war and excuses for our own personal gain. This shouldn't even be an issue, but since our greed has made it one, we should do everything we can separate ourselves so the target on our back doesn't get any bigger.
We should completely remove ourselves from the Middle East. The whole reason that al Qaeda and other extremist groups hate us in the first place is because of our involvement there. It started with our presence in Saudi Arabia in 1989 (foreign troops on their holy ground) and just snowballed as we increased our influence and presence all over the Middle East.
A few weeks ago Ron Paul stated in a GOP Presidential Candidate debate that they hate us for being there and as long as we have boots on the ground there, be it fighting soldiers, bases, or embassies, al Qaeda and likeminded extremists will hate us. He suggested that the first thing we should do to calm things down was to completely remove ourselves from the equation. When the people there want change, they will get it. Until then, as long as we occupy their land, we will be hated.
When Ron Paul said that in the debate, the crowd booed him. Then Rick Santorum ridiculed him right there on the stage. And then the audience applauded and cheered Santorum who had said that they hated us for our freedoms and way of life. It's this backwards thinking that makes this war so unwinnable. Americans need to wake up and do a little research before eating up every piece of garbage that is fed to us by the media.
For every "terrorist" that we kill (truthfully they are more often just Taliban fighters), another one signs up to fight. The longer we stay there, the more people hate us for being there. After 10 years, you'd think that we would be able to kill every single Taliban fighter there is. Ever hear the expression that "one man defending his home is worth the same as 20 paid mercenaries"? I hate to call our military paid mercenaries, but the people of Afghanistan are absolutely defending their own homes and that is why we cannot win. Sure, some people want us there, but a lot of people – those being the only ones willing to take up arms – do not want us there. We have the best training and weapons available, but they have the heart. They care what happens to their homeland and will do whatever it takes (guerilla warfare, martyrdom, etc.) to get westerners (non-Muslims in particular) off their lands.
I do worry that if we completely leave the Middle East that al Qaeda and such groups will use it to rally their troops and say that they defeated us (because let's face it, all leaders use BS rhetoric), but I also think that if the people truly want change at some point, they will do it themselves. Libya, Egypt, and Tunisia are all good examples. Popular uprisings brought huge change. If the people of Afghanistan want change, they have seen it happen and they can and will make it happen. It is not up to us to build a democratic government when the indigenous population never asked for one.
For whatever reason, the mainstream media will not talk about the true reasons they hate us. The government will not tell us the real reason that we are hated and us individuals are at risk of being attacked by a random terrorist. Osama bin Laden had been quoted many times as saying he hated us for our imperialistic government and he believed that it is up to all Muslims to defeat us (this is where jihad comes in – although he preached violent jihad [versus the normal/non-violent day-to-day that virtually all Muslims engage in] because going through the political route gave legitimacy to our government’s actions). If we'd leave the Middle East, we'd be safer.
I would like to see us completely remove all troops/bases/embassies/etc from the Middle East and not use our political muscle to influence policy in any of those countries. We can still buy their oil, but we shouldn’t try to affect their governments. We should focus our efforts on intelligence operations, which we've been doing great at for years now. The CIA needs to keep some people in the Middle East doing undercover work, but that's it. It'd be cheaper and likely more effective because I believe if
Afghanistan is a land of vast mineral resources. We should not let the billions of dollars and thousands of lives invested in this venture go without a return. Rare earth minerals mined from Afghanistan could end our dependence on China for them. Also Afghanistan has the world's largest gold mine that we should exploit.
Get out and let them settle it themselfs. It's none of our business. Stop giving them money.
it was/is much greater than the Taliban. A stable government in Paki would have helped unveil individuals like AQ Kahn. Many are to blame for those actions, not just Paki. Regardless US should have invested more earlier in Paki etc. when they had a real chance, the 8Os error. How do we move forward? We build Pakistan.
bring the troops home
our goal in Afghanistan must be to get the hell out of there! There is no point in spending another moment there. The bad guys we are getting are via drones and special forces not by conventional combat. Simple economics are going to force our hand on this anyway so lets get it done now. Also the Bush/Cheney privatized military system must be repealed to end the economic incentive to go to war.