The real problem is that, in the case of disaster, there is no time to make any vote. This is chivalry to the males who are freely staying behind, but the cases of those males who do want to live, but are still forced to die this is not chivalry but cruelty. They have all the moral rights to hang the captain who gave this order that rob their lives.
Emma - 12 years ago
The idea of women and children first is a bit outdated - as if women and children are weaker, and as if children should be with their mothers rather than their fathers, I think. Maybe it should be families first, instead, which I know also causes problems, because how do you define a family?! I'd define it as two parents (of whatever sex) and their child or children.
rich - 12 years ago
As I said on the men's poll, I have 2 young children at home. They are my priority. I'd rapidly make my way to safety, whatever it took.
Jo - 12 years ago
I think most men will want to believe they will "do the right thing", although none us know until we hit the real event. I like to believe that, as an older woman, I would let a father survive with his family before I would jump in the boat to save myself.....
bert - 12 years ago
so richard this is about checking if social attitudes have changed. apparantly on board the titanic the yanks forgot women and children first and instead adopted every man for himself id like to think id have the courage of my convictions to make it women and children first, but one never knows beneath the veil of everyday normality is the selfish gene or (gent) . in my own life ive saw people lose there bottle and run, who in other situations the were familar with the stood there ground. the following phrase sums it up"a plan does not survive contact with the enemy" fear pain hysteria confusion preexisting attitudes physical mentel weakness all play a part in the final outcome.
bert - 12 years ago
so richard this is about checking if social attitudes have changed. apparantly on board the titanic the yanks forgot women and children first and instead adopted every man for himself id like to think id have the courage of my convictions to make it women and children first, but one never knows beneath the veil of everyday normality is the selfish gene or (gent) . in my own life ive saw people lose there bottle and run, who in other situations the were familar with the stood there ground. the following phrase sums it up"a plan does not survive contact with the enemy" fear pain hysteria confusion preexisting attitudes physical mentel weakness all play a part in the final outcome.
bert - 12 years ago
so richard this is about checking if social attitudes have changed. apparantly on board the titanic the yanks forgot women and children first and instead adopted every man for himself id like to think id have the courage of my convictions to make it women and children first, but one never knows beneath the veil of everyday normality is the selfish gene or (gent) . in my own life ive saw people lose there bottle and run, who in other situations the were familar with the stood there ground. the following phrase sums it up"a plan does not survive contact with the enemy" fear pain hysteria confusion preexisting attitudes physical mentel weakness all play a part in the final outcome.
bert - 12 years ago
so richard this is about checking if social attitudes have changed. apparantly on board the titanic the yanks forgot women and children first and instead adopted every man for himself id like to think id have the courage of my convictions to make it women and children first, but one never knows beneath the veil of everyday normality is the selfish gene or (gent) . in my own life ive saw people lose there bottle and run, who in other situations the were familar with the stood there ground. the following phrase sums it up"a plan does not survive contact with the enemy" fear pain hysteria confusion preexisting attitudes physical mentel weakness all play a part in the final outcome.
Agree that voting in a poll may not reflect what would happen in actual situation, to a massive degree in a life threatening situation. I was wondering when 'women & children first' rule came into being. Just reminded me of reading Dorothy Rowe book where she was criticizing the romanticism of 'living naturally' and how Aboriginal tribes would use infanticide when the tribe was under threat in order to ensure group survival. I wonder if survivors will have stemmed from these types of practice rather than holders of nobler altruistic behaviors. Not that I'd prefer it not to be 'women & children first' of course I'm biased, but the damage done to survivors who may have broken social rules that they aspire to, when in a life threatening situation is part of the damage of a traumatic experience.
Laura - 12 years ago
'survive' - the human desire to 'survive' not 'service' obviously
laura - 12 years ago
Until we are personally face with a similar situation we will never now how we will react. The human desire to service is overwhelming and after all is exactly how we survive it is the prime instinct.
I am not sure how to vote in this for two reasons.... I would like to have voted about whether the concept is wrong or outdated and I dont necessarily think every man would be entirely honest in their answer.
Children need to be off first and in the care of a parent whether male or female its not fair on the men or the childless at all but '...dems da breaks'
I really hate the word 'coward' ... every human when up against it is capable of great cowadice
The phrase is, 'women and children first'. It is not 'women first'. I could be interpreted as, 'women first' but this option does not appear in the poll so I am treating this as women with children being allowed to go first. The children should be saved but it would not be right to deprive them of their mothers, particularly if they are babies or toddlers. Any men who are prepared to consign babies to the sea so that they can survive are cowards, plain and simple. Any male who would separate a woman from her child and leave her to die is not a man. Apart from this, women without children ought to be treated no differently than the males and selected at random although there might be special circumstances where women of childbearing age could be excluded from the selection process if reproductive capacity was key to the viability of the general population following a large scale disaster. But in the case of this poll, given the above I would not care to meet any man who answered, "No.'.
The real problem is that, in the case of disaster, there is no time to make any vote. This is chivalry to the males who are freely staying behind, but the cases of those males who do want to live, but are still forced to die this is not chivalry but cruelty. They have all the moral rights to hang the captain who gave this order that rob their lives.
The idea of women and children first is a bit outdated - as if women and children are weaker, and as if children should be with their mothers rather than their fathers, I think. Maybe it should be families first, instead, which I know also causes problems, because how do you define a family?! I'd define it as two parents (of whatever sex) and their child or children.
As I said on the men's poll, I have 2 young children at home. They are my priority. I'd rapidly make my way to safety, whatever it took.
I think most men will want to believe they will "do the right thing", although none us know until we hit the real event. I like to believe that, as an older woman, I would let a father survive with his family before I would jump in the boat to save myself.....
so richard this is about checking if social attitudes have changed. apparantly on board the titanic the yanks forgot women and children first and instead adopted every man for himself id like to think id have the courage of my convictions to make it women and children first, but one never knows beneath the veil of everyday normality is the selfish gene or (gent) . in my own life ive saw people lose there bottle and run, who in other situations the were familar with the stood there ground. the following phrase sums it up"a plan does not survive contact with the enemy" fear pain hysteria confusion preexisting attitudes physical mentel weakness all play a part in the final outcome.
so richard this is about checking if social attitudes have changed. apparantly on board the titanic the yanks forgot women and children first and instead adopted every man for himself id like to think id have the courage of my convictions to make it women and children first, but one never knows beneath the veil of everyday normality is the selfish gene or (gent) . in my own life ive saw people lose there bottle and run, who in other situations the were familar with the stood there ground. the following phrase sums it up"a plan does not survive contact with the enemy" fear pain hysteria confusion preexisting attitudes physical mentel weakness all play a part in the final outcome.
so richard this is about checking if social attitudes have changed. apparantly on board the titanic the yanks forgot women and children first and instead adopted every man for himself id like to think id have the courage of my convictions to make it women and children first, but one never knows beneath the veil of everyday normality is the selfish gene or (gent) . in my own life ive saw people lose there bottle and run, who in other situations the were familar with the stood there ground. the following phrase sums it up"a plan does not survive contact with the enemy" fear pain hysteria confusion preexisting attitudes physical mentel weakness all play a part in the final outcome.
so richard this is about checking if social attitudes have changed. apparantly on board the titanic the yanks forgot women and children first and instead adopted every man for himself id like to think id have the courage of my convictions to make it women and children first, but one never knows beneath the veil of everyday normality is the selfish gene or (gent) . in my own life ive saw people lose there bottle and run, who in other situations the were familar with the stood there ground. the following phrase sums it up"a plan does not survive contact with the enemy" fear pain hysteria confusion preexisting attitudes physical mentel weakness all play a part in the final outcome.
Agree that voting in a poll may not reflect what would happen in actual situation, to a massive degree in a life threatening situation. I was wondering when 'women & children first' rule came into being. Just reminded me of reading Dorothy Rowe book where she was criticizing the romanticism of 'living naturally' and how Aboriginal tribes would use infanticide when the tribe was under threat in order to ensure group survival. I wonder if survivors will have stemmed from these types of practice rather than holders of nobler altruistic behaviors. Not that I'd prefer it not to be 'women & children first' of course I'm biased, but the damage done to survivors who may have broken social rules that they aspire to, when in a life threatening situation is part of the damage of a traumatic experience.
'survive' - the human desire to 'survive' not 'service' obviously
Until we are personally face with a similar situation we will never now how we will react. The human desire to service is overwhelming and after all is exactly how we survive it is the prime instinct.
I am not sure how to vote in this for two reasons.... I would like to have voted about whether the concept is wrong or outdated and I dont necessarily think every man would be entirely honest in their answer.
Children need to be off first and in the care of a parent whether male or female its not fair on the men or the childless at all but '...dems da breaks'
I really hate the word 'coward' ... every human when up against it is capable of great cowadice
The phrase is, 'women and children first'. It is not 'women first'. I could be interpreted as, 'women first' but this option does not appear in the poll so I am treating this as women with children being allowed to go first. The children should be saved but it would not be right to deprive them of their mothers, particularly if they are babies or toddlers. Any men who are prepared to consign babies to the sea so that they can survive are cowards, plain and simple. Any male who would separate a woman from her child and leave her to die is not a man. Apart from this, women without children ought to be treated no differently than the males and selected at random although there might be special circumstances where women of childbearing age could be excluded from the selection process if reproductive capacity was key to the viability of the general population following a large scale disaster. But in the case of this poll, given the above I would not care to meet any man who answered, "No.'.