Some of us fans want a real happy ending to series where only reapers are destroyed, shepard and l.i. retire get married, etc. After credits a much older shepard dies surrounded by his/her little blue children, l.i., and their friends/family at a normandy reunion party.
MacCaith Mor - 12 years ago
Some of us fans want a real happy ending to series where only reapers are destroyed, shepard and l.i. retire get married, etc. After credits a much older shepard dies surrounded by his/her little blue children, l.i., and their friends/family at a normandy reunion party.
FourDog101 - 12 years ago
Rossco, if the Nolan Batman trilogy was a 120+ hour film filled with hundreds of small moments of audience interaction and choice that the viewers had been told would have larger effects on the end of the series, and then when they reached the end, Batman just shot Commissioner Gordon in the face with a musical shotgun (that changes color depending on one forced choice you made only seconds earlier) while jacking off, and then the credits rolled, people might be a little upset, and they'd probably ask for their money back. This argument isn't about whether or not we are entitled to a proper ending. It's about whether or not Bioware has a responsibility to care about and listen to the concerns of its consumer base. Maybe Bioware doesn't have an obligation to do right by its consumers and fans. If that's how you feel, fine, but that doesn't mean that other consumers and fans suddenly have no right to be disgruntled. So Bioware and EA, being in the entertainment business, have decided that the best way for them to continue doing business is to try to settle these concerns. It's nice to see Bioware at least being mildly responsive to consumer concerns, but it is unlikely that this plan to placate the masses will work, because instead of offering the sort of ending they originally promised, they are still defending their artistic decisions, despite great evidence that the execution of these decisions does not work. Artists need to be open to criticism and editing. A common rule in writing is that, upon peer review, if you have to personally explain your conclusion to your audience so that they understand what you meant, then you haven't done a very good job of writing the conclusion. Cases like this call for rewriting, and if you can't make the rewrite work (which seems likely given the numerous plot holes and lapses of logic in Mass Effect 3's ending), then that is when you scrap your original idea and try to come up with something better that can get across your ideas while also being executed successfully. Bioware will turn in its second draft soon. But it might take more than an extra couple of explanatory sentences to fix the conclusion.
Chiff - 12 years ago
If you extend an old lada it becomes a lada estate. Both are equally shit cars. Metaphor 4 u
Rossco - 12 years ago
I think this whole retake ME3 thing is getting a bit of a joke now. At the end of the day yeah the endings needed way more closure than was given as it was all a bit vague and they (Bioware) are bringing out an etended ending to the game that should be good enough. The endings might not be to everyones tastes but think about it, you wouldn't ask Nolan to rewrite the end of The Dark knight Rises if it has a rubbish ending would you? The thing that stings the most about all this is the fact that no one has even a little bit on the side of Bioware in this, what happened to the fact they spent the last 2 years crafting a very epic ending th thier already stellar series. Bioware have said it themselves a good few times already. No one said anything about how good the quality of the game was or even seemed to appreciate the hard work they put in. Look at Retake's cupcake stunt, Bioware said it was a very well done stunt but came to the conclusion that those cakes weren't sent to them to celebrate their game rather than to punish them for their own creation. I think it's really sad that Bioware have taken so much abuse for this. Yeah maybe the emdings of ME3 don't take too much of your choices into account overall except at the very end but so what? Did a huge campaign like this start because you didn't get to see oak seeds grow into massive trees over time in Fable? No. It's not the first time a game dev has promised things and not delivered on them all yet they have never had to suffer all this for it have they? The fans, sorry, "fans", might not like the endings that much but you know what? They didn't write the game did they? Bioware did and thats how they decided to end their story so stop being so whingy and just deal with it. Me personally, I thought the endings were well samey and had a few plot holes but i'm not judging them mercilessly for it, it's their story not ours, we have no right to demand they rewrite their own endings. Think about it you wouldn't ask this of Stephen King would you? We should be more than happy that Bioware have even agreed to bring us the extended cut. If I had been treated as they have I would've told you all to get stuffed. They have spent alot of time and effort to bring us a great series and they should be applauded for that, I think Mass Effect is one of the best Sci-Fi franchises ever, it may have changed shades and shapes as it progressed but thats what happens with sagas. Everyone should calm down at look at the larger picture here and stop thinking so negatively? Didn't you have a great time with the series all the same? I know I did.
Sean - 12 years ago
I think what irks me the most about the whole thing is that the free download is only free for a limited time. Or that's what the fine print said when I looked. Granted, free til 2014 is a good while. But say, for instance, that Bioware puts out ANOTHER Mass Effect in 2014. Then people who haven't played the games will buy the first three at their reduced prices, will find they don't like 3's ending, and will have to purchase the no longer free extended cut. Or, worse, for someone like Michelle, who paid $80 for her ME3, and may not get the ending DLC til Bioware puts out my fictional ME game. It may only cost all of $10 then, but she'll still have spent $90.
That's all based on the best case scenario that the extended cut solves everything. It won't, of course. We all have too many problems with the content to be satisfied with an extension of it.
As for my opinion on the ending...I don't want to focus on the details. The "God Child", as Michelle puts it, all those armies stuck in Sol, the mass effect relays apparently not blowing everyone up, and so on. I'm not THRILLED by those bits, and they do detract from my enjoyment, but they are only contributing factors. Even the three choices aren't my biggest issue. I could've dealt with the three choices quite well with proper execution. I could even have ignored how most of the choices I'd made through the three games made no impact.
What really bugs me, and to what I had a purely instinctual, visceral reaction to, was the complete departure in theme. I've never been so inexpressibly angry about anything, and I didn't even understand why, at the time. I was just...angry. Couldn't even speak. It took me some time to pin down that the change in theme was what set me off. One moment you're rushing toward a reaper, who is vaporizing all sorts of folks, your blood is pumping and you're not really sure if Shepard's going to survive this one. Then, voooop, you're up in the Citadel and you, the player, are removed from the equation. All you can do is sit in your chair and watch as incongruous plot "twist" after incongruous plot "twist" gets thrown at you backhandedly. For myself, I was gripping my mouse tightly in expectation of a sudden, epic throwdown. What I got was the same feeling I get when I see people paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to some guy who puts up a painting of nothing (just blank canvas) calls it "modern art" and me "unsophisticated" for not seeing the metaphor.
My point is that a blank canvas may very well be art, but it's not GOOD art. It's the art people admire when they don't know anything at all about art. It's the art people buy because it's expensive, and the price is the first thing they brag to their friends about. The bewildered disgust I get for that art is very much what I got for ME3's ending. Because it was an attempt to be cleverly artistic by doing very little. Which is exactly how not to end an Epic SciFi series. Fine for something more whimsical or sterile, but it's just a glaring error in Mass Effect.
All that being said, I think that the game's ending would've been fine if it hadn't been a Mass Effect game. Like X-Men: First Class. Good movie, TERRIBLE X-Men movie. Anyway, that's it for me.
Michelle - 12 years ago
Since the ending of Mass Effect 3 was so below the expectations, this extended cut just sounds like a way for the "artists" to attempt to explain their 'artwork.' The Bioware stand has been that they feel the endings they wrote for ME3 were the "best" for the series. I get the feeling that this extended cut is just an attempt to "explain" how deep and amazing the original endings were for the die-hard ME fans who were too stupid to "get it." It tells me that the people in Bioware think their customers aren't smart enough to get their message. I believe the real problem is that these writers and product leaders are so arrogant that they don't realize that they took over a preexisting product and their job was to continue it as it was but they wanted to shape it. Mass Effect is a series that people have come to love, when the new writers and leader began development, they treated it like fanfiction, and like many fanfictions, they wrote themselves into a corner and created an ending filled with plot-holes.
Make no mistake, I'll take the free DLC, I paid nearly $80 for my Collector's Edition of ME3, I want something better than the current product. The irony for me is that, I adored 98% of ME3, literally, up till the moment that last Reaper attacked to the God Child and "final" decision I was in love. I adored the game up until the final charge to the Citadel. I cannot express how excited I had been for Mass Effect 3 and then when I reached the ending, I was so disappointed. The real insult to injury was how proud Bioware was of ME3. It made me think of a dog that has torn up a shoe and dropped the remains at its owner's feet expecting praise. At least with a dog, it will look sad that it did something bad, Bioware keeps telling the unsatisfied customers how good their product was. Maybe the Bioware team has been playing with Star Wars so long they think their Jedi mind trick might work "You are satisfied with the ending of Mass Effect 3." No, I am not satisfied.
I do not expect much from the DLC and I don't plan to stop being part of the Retake movement because loyal fans built Mass Effect. Loyal fans paid more money for their games, they got other people into the game, and they were willing to try the other game series produced by Bioware because of their love of Mass Effect. When ME3 came out, I was preparing to buy some of the KOTOR games, but once I reached the ending of ME3, I threw that notion out. Bioware betrayed my customer loyalty and so I won't be spending any more money on their products. I've told people who want to play Mass Effect to play only the first two games, the third game's ending ruins the first two. I have a friend who is planning on selling his Mass Effect games, he no longer wants to play the series at all.
I am not a happy customer and I am horrified by the idea of what Bioware is ruining about the other series I love from them. I am greatly afraid of what will happen to Dragon Age 3.
Caesium - 12 years ago
As a complete pessimist I am sure that this extended cut will be some further pretentious arty rubbish attempt to silence the outcry of the understandably unhappy voices of the fan. Mass Effect 3 has an enormous fanbase and it is incredible that they have said they will be flat out not be changing the ending because they want to preserve their "artistic story", autistic more like, Like many fans, when I first completed the game and got that ending I assumed I had done something wrong, like when I first completed Mass Effect 2 with some of the characters dying. This gave replay value as I went through the game a second time, completing all the loyalty missions and saving everyone. When I finished ME3 I looked online and saw to my amazement that not only was this the proper ending, but all other endings where almost exactly the same. Many fans have voiced their displeasure, asking questions such as: "Did they run out of time/money?" "Was this the same team that gave us the storylines from ME1 & 2?"
I was hoping I would have a happy ending but instead got this, The ending which completely annihilates any point of replay of any of the games, making decisions such as curing/continuing the genophage completely arbitrary. The feeling on completing the game is one of depression as if the big corporation is saying "So long sucker, thanks for all the money!"..."oh you didn't like the ending?...well I thought it was OK and I'm the boss, so I'm not changing it. Also why not buy some extra DLC with the false hope of a nicer ending?"
On an extra note, sad endings or endings where the hero dies are no longer "cutting edge", "new" or even remotely surprising. I cant remember the last film I watched that actually had a happy ending. If they wanted to actually buck a trend they should have made a happily ever after ending. As if life itself wasn't depressing enough. Thanks Bioware.
P.S. I'm sure there is more than one Bioware Scriptwriter sitting at work with a smug "I told you that ending sucked" look on their face.
Daniel - 12 years ago
I view this as a bone to break our teeth. EA, and the new Bioware, will not go any further than the bare minimum they have to in order to cut the numbers of Retake supporters. To do more than the minimum would be inconveniencing themselves to benefit their customers. Can you really see EA doing that?
By doing this they can say that have responded, and that we're just ungrateful and can't be reasoned with. And every person that is satisfied and calls a lacklustre DLC 'good enough' is making the Retake movement less strong, is stealing the wind from our sails and dulling our voice.
EA has already won the golden poo for America's worst company, we've damaged their PR, we've shown our power to affect change. We CAN'T let them buy us off with 'trinkets for the natives'.
Kwall - 12 years ago
I voted "No" but I'm more split. I'm willing to accept the extended if they can somehow explain the plot holes and the WTF-ness of the Guardian. So, in lieu of deleting the last 10 minutes and replacing it, I'm willing to agree to a revised (and enhanced with mroe variety for the endings) retelling of it.
Some of us fans want a real happy ending to series where only reapers are destroyed, shepard and l.i. retire get married, etc. After credits a much older shepard dies surrounded by his/her little blue children, l.i., and their friends/family at a normandy reunion party.
Some of us fans want a real happy ending to series where only reapers are destroyed, shepard and l.i. retire get married, etc. After credits a much older shepard dies surrounded by his/her little blue children, l.i., and their friends/family at a normandy reunion party.
Rossco, if the Nolan Batman trilogy was a 120+ hour film filled with hundreds of small moments of audience interaction and choice that the viewers had been told would have larger effects on the end of the series, and then when they reached the end, Batman just shot Commissioner Gordon in the face with a musical shotgun (that changes color depending on one forced choice you made only seconds earlier) while jacking off, and then the credits rolled, people might be a little upset, and they'd probably ask for their money back. This argument isn't about whether or not we are entitled to a proper ending. It's about whether or not Bioware has a responsibility to care about and listen to the concerns of its consumer base. Maybe Bioware doesn't have an obligation to do right by its consumers and fans. If that's how you feel, fine, but that doesn't mean that other consumers and fans suddenly have no right to be disgruntled. So Bioware and EA, being in the entertainment business, have decided that the best way for them to continue doing business is to try to settle these concerns. It's nice to see Bioware at least being mildly responsive to consumer concerns, but it is unlikely that this plan to placate the masses will work, because instead of offering the sort of ending they originally promised, they are still defending their artistic decisions, despite great evidence that the execution of these decisions does not work. Artists need to be open to criticism and editing. A common rule in writing is that, upon peer review, if you have to personally explain your conclusion to your audience so that they understand what you meant, then you haven't done a very good job of writing the conclusion. Cases like this call for rewriting, and if you can't make the rewrite work (which seems likely given the numerous plot holes and lapses of logic in Mass Effect 3's ending), then that is when you scrap your original idea and try to come up with something better that can get across your ideas while also being executed successfully. Bioware will turn in its second draft soon. But it might take more than an extra couple of explanatory sentences to fix the conclusion.
If you extend an old lada it becomes a lada estate. Both are equally shit cars. Metaphor 4 u
I think this whole retake ME3 thing is getting a bit of a joke now. At the end of the day yeah the endings needed way more closure than was given as it was all a bit vague and they (Bioware) are bringing out an etended ending to the game that should be good enough. The endings might not be to everyones tastes but think about it, you wouldn't ask Nolan to rewrite the end of The Dark knight Rises if it has a rubbish ending would you? The thing that stings the most about all this is the fact that no one has even a little bit on the side of Bioware in this, what happened to the fact they spent the last 2 years crafting a very epic ending th thier already stellar series. Bioware have said it themselves a good few times already. No one said anything about how good the quality of the game was or even seemed to appreciate the hard work they put in. Look at Retake's cupcake stunt, Bioware said it was a very well done stunt but came to the conclusion that those cakes weren't sent to them to celebrate their game rather than to punish them for their own creation. I think it's really sad that Bioware have taken so much abuse for this. Yeah maybe the emdings of ME3 don't take too much of your choices into account overall except at the very end but so what? Did a huge campaign like this start because you didn't get to see oak seeds grow into massive trees over time in Fable? No. It's not the first time a game dev has promised things and not delivered on them all yet they have never had to suffer all this for it have they? The fans, sorry, "fans", might not like the endings that much but you know what? They didn't write the game did they? Bioware did and thats how they decided to end their story so stop being so whingy and just deal with it. Me personally, I thought the endings were well samey and had a few plot holes but i'm not judging them mercilessly for it, it's their story not ours, we have no right to demand they rewrite their own endings. Think about it you wouldn't ask this of Stephen King would you? We should be more than happy that Bioware have even agreed to bring us the extended cut. If I had been treated as they have I would've told you all to get stuffed. They have spent alot of time and effort to bring us a great series and they should be applauded for that, I think Mass Effect is one of the best Sci-Fi franchises ever, it may have changed shades and shapes as it progressed but thats what happens with sagas. Everyone should calm down at look at the larger picture here and stop thinking so negatively? Didn't you have a great time with the series all the same? I know I did.
I think what irks me the most about the whole thing is that the free download is only free for a limited time. Or that's what the fine print said when I looked. Granted, free til 2014 is a good while. But say, for instance, that Bioware puts out ANOTHER Mass Effect in 2014. Then people who haven't played the games will buy the first three at their reduced prices, will find they don't like 3's ending, and will have to purchase the no longer free extended cut. Or, worse, for someone like Michelle, who paid $80 for her ME3, and may not get the ending DLC til Bioware puts out my fictional ME game. It may only cost all of $10 then, but she'll still have spent $90.
That's all based on the best case scenario that the extended cut solves everything. It won't, of course. We all have too many problems with the content to be satisfied with an extension of it.
As for my opinion on the ending...I don't want to focus on the details. The "God Child", as Michelle puts it, all those armies stuck in Sol, the mass effect relays apparently not blowing everyone up, and so on. I'm not THRILLED by those bits, and they do detract from my enjoyment, but they are only contributing factors. Even the three choices aren't my biggest issue. I could've dealt with the three choices quite well with proper execution. I could even have ignored how most of the choices I'd made through the three games made no impact.
What really bugs me, and to what I had a purely instinctual, visceral reaction to, was the complete departure in theme. I've never been so inexpressibly angry about anything, and I didn't even understand why, at the time. I was just...angry. Couldn't even speak. It took me some time to pin down that the change in theme was what set me off. One moment you're rushing toward a reaper, who is vaporizing all sorts of folks, your blood is pumping and you're not really sure if Shepard's going to survive this one. Then, voooop, you're up in the Citadel and you, the player, are removed from the equation. All you can do is sit in your chair and watch as incongruous plot "twist" after incongruous plot "twist" gets thrown at you backhandedly. For myself, I was gripping my mouse tightly in expectation of a sudden, epic throwdown. What I got was the same feeling I get when I see people paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to some guy who puts up a painting of nothing (just blank canvas) calls it "modern art" and me "unsophisticated" for not seeing the metaphor.
My point is that a blank canvas may very well be art, but it's not GOOD art. It's the art people admire when they don't know anything at all about art. It's the art people buy because it's expensive, and the price is the first thing they brag to their friends about. The bewildered disgust I get for that art is very much what I got for ME3's ending. Because it was an attempt to be cleverly artistic by doing very little. Which is exactly how not to end an Epic SciFi series. Fine for something more whimsical or sterile, but it's just a glaring error in Mass Effect.
All that being said, I think that the game's ending would've been fine if it hadn't been a Mass Effect game. Like X-Men: First Class. Good movie, TERRIBLE X-Men movie. Anyway, that's it for me.
Since the ending of Mass Effect 3 was so below the expectations, this extended cut just sounds like a way for the "artists" to attempt to explain their 'artwork.' The Bioware stand has been that they feel the endings they wrote for ME3 were the "best" for the series. I get the feeling that this extended cut is just an attempt to "explain" how deep and amazing the original endings were for the die-hard ME fans who were too stupid to "get it." It tells me that the people in Bioware think their customers aren't smart enough to get their message. I believe the real problem is that these writers and product leaders are so arrogant that they don't realize that they took over a preexisting product and their job was to continue it as it was but they wanted to shape it. Mass Effect is a series that people have come to love, when the new writers and leader began development, they treated it like fanfiction, and like many fanfictions, they wrote themselves into a corner and created an ending filled with plot-holes.
Make no mistake, I'll take the free DLC, I paid nearly $80 for my Collector's Edition of ME3, I want something better than the current product. The irony for me is that, I adored 98% of ME3, literally, up till the moment that last Reaper attacked to the God Child and "final" decision I was in love. I adored the game up until the final charge to the Citadel. I cannot express how excited I had been for Mass Effect 3 and then when I reached the ending, I was so disappointed. The real insult to injury was how proud Bioware was of ME3. It made me think of a dog that has torn up a shoe and dropped the remains at its owner's feet expecting praise. At least with a dog, it will look sad that it did something bad, Bioware keeps telling the unsatisfied customers how good their product was. Maybe the Bioware team has been playing with Star Wars so long they think their Jedi mind trick might work "You are satisfied with the ending of Mass Effect 3." No, I am not satisfied.
I do not expect much from the DLC and I don't plan to stop being part of the Retake movement because loyal fans built Mass Effect. Loyal fans paid more money for their games, they got other people into the game, and they were willing to try the other game series produced by Bioware because of their love of Mass Effect. When ME3 came out, I was preparing to buy some of the KOTOR games, but once I reached the ending of ME3, I threw that notion out. Bioware betrayed my customer loyalty and so I won't be spending any more money on their products. I've told people who want to play Mass Effect to play only the first two games, the third game's ending ruins the first two. I have a friend who is planning on selling his Mass Effect games, he no longer wants to play the series at all.
I am not a happy customer and I am horrified by the idea of what Bioware is ruining about the other series I love from them. I am greatly afraid of what will happen to Dragon Age 3.
As a complete pessimist I am sure that this extended cut will be some further pretentious arty rubbish attempt to silence the outcry of the understandably unhappy voices of the fan. Mass Effect 3 has an enormous fanbase and it is incredible that they have said they will be flat out not be changing the ending because they want to preserve their "artistic story", autistic more like, Like many fans, when I first completed the game and got that ending I assumed I had done something wrong, like when I first completed Mass Effect 2 with some of the characters dying. This gave replay value as I went through the game a second time, completing all the loyalty missions and saving everyone. When I finished ME3 I looked online and saw to my amazement that not only was this the proper ending, but all other endings where almost exactly the same. Many fans have voiced their displeasure, asking questions such as: "Did they run out of time/money?" "Was this the same team that gave us the storylines from ME1 & 2?"
I was hoping I would have a happy ending but instead got this, The ending which completely annihilates any point of replay of any of the games, making decisions such as curing/continuing the genophage completely arbitrary. The feeling on completing the game is one of depression as if the big corporation is saying "So long sucker, thanks for all the money!"..."oh you didn't like the ending?...well I thought it was OK and I'm the boss, so I'm not changing it. Also why not buy some extra DLC with the false hope of a nicer ending?"
On an extra note, sad endings or endings where the hero dies are no longer "cutting edge", "new" or even remotely surprising. I cant remember the last film I watched that actually had a happy ending. If they wanted to actually buck a trend they should have made a happily ever after ending. As if life itself wasn't depressing enough. Thanks Bioware.
P.S. I'm sure there is more than one Bioware Scriptwriter sitting at work with a smug "I told you that ending sucked" look on their face.
I view this as a bone to break our teeth. EA, and the new Bioware, will not go any further than the bare minimum they have to in order to cut the numbers of Retake supporters. To do more than the minimum would be inconveniencing themselves to benefit their customers. Can you really see EA doing that?
By doing this they can say that have responded, and that we're just ungrateful and can't be reasoned with. And every person that is satisfied and calls a lacklustre DLC 'good enough' is making the Retake movement less strong, is stealing the wind from our sails and dulling our voice.
EA has already won the golden poo for America's worst company, we've damaged their PR, we've shown our power to affect change. We CAN'T let them buy us off with 'trinkets for the natives'.
I voted "No" but I'm more split. I'm willing to accept the extended if they can somehow explain the plot holes and the WTF-ness of the Guardian. So, in lieu of deleting the last 10 minutes and replacing it, I'm willing to agree to a revised (and enhanced with mroe variety for the endings) retelling of it.