That's ridiculous. Without putting Ayrton Senna in column, how can you expect to get a proper answer?
Skid - 10 years ago
Oops! Makes that Fangio's "era." and Schumacher's engine failure at Japan, the penultimate race of "2006" not the last race. and not "2008." Sorry. Expert went too fast. Hehe. See below:
The Japanese Grand Prix was led by Schumacher with only 16 laps to go, when, for the first time since the 2000 French Grand Prix, Schumacher's car suffered an engine failure. Alonso won the race, giving himself a ten-point championship lead. With only one race left in the season, Schumacher could only win the championship if he won the season finale and Alonso scored no points.
Wishing Michael better luck now in 2014.
Skid - 10 years ago
The records speak for themselves. Senna (spelled "Ayrton" not "Airton" BTW - Such experts!) did not win four titles, just as Niki Lauda, Nelson Piquet, etc didn't and there is nothing saying they would have. It has never been confirmed there was a steering failure at Imola causing Senna's fatal accident and just as many believe it was simply a mistake by Senna. For some reason "pro-Senites" try to perpetuate the Senna myth emotionally simply because he died. He was a great, and sadly died, but survival was part of the record for all.
Fangio was greatness in his error. Michael Schumacher was as great as all his record indicates. Plus he won titles with two fledgling teams and dragged Ferrari up from failure to dominance. Seb Vettel has been in the cradle of a ultra successful team since he took the seat at Red Bull. At this point Vettel is only a little past half-way to Schumi's record (which but for an engine failure in the last race of 2008 would have been 8 titles) with a long way to go. See how "ifs" work? First you have to qualify, then you have to finish!
Fred Puhn - 10 years ago
Comparing Fangio to the modern drivers is difficult. In his day the cars had no safety roll bars or seat belts, the tires would last hours on the track and were skinny. and the driver had to shift a crash box manually. There was nothing like downforce. The driver wore tee shirts and the helmets were primitive at best. The biggest stat that amazes me is that Fangio started his F1 career at age 40, when modern drivers are considered over the hill. he won champion ships in Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Maserati and Mercedes. He almost never made a mistake and did not have to resort to dirty driving to win. I voted for him as the greatest ever, realizing it is not a fair comparison.
Brian - 10 years ago
I am not familiar enough to judge the greatness of Juan Manuel Fangio but Alain Prost is certainly much better than either Schumacher or Vettel.
For those who have forgotten Alain Prost had for teammates Airton Senna, Nikki Lauda (three times world champion) and Nigel Mansell (also world champion). He had also to compete a full decade against Nelson Picket (three times world champion).
In 1986, he became Champion in his McLaren despite the fact that Williams had a much better car. In 1989 he won again Senna on equal terms. In 1990, he gave him a real fight despite the fact that his Ferrary was in no way better than Senna's McLaren. I
n those circumstances, Schumacher and Vetter would have been blown away. The evidence for this is that either of them refuses/refused to drive with a comparable driver. Why do you think Red Bull chose Daniel Ricciardo instead of Kimi Raikonen as a replacement for Mark Webber?
To conclude, Alan Prost has certainly not been a very nice person but his talant and determination are exceptional. You may argue that Senna or indeed Fangio are better than him because they proved themselves in very difficult circumstances and I would accept the point but Schumacher and Vettel are not in their league at all. They may break all records but this is not their merit. Instead it was achieved by Ross Brown, Rory Burny, Adrian Newey e.t.c
Mencer - 10 years ago
Agreed. Where is Senna? Michael cried when he matched Senna's win record. And it's been so long ago and the sport has changed so much I almost don't think it's right to include Fangio on these kinds of lists. Almost not right to compare him to modern champions it's so different now.
MT - 10 years ago
A top driver list that does not include Ayrton Senna? I know this is about 4 or more championships but it was a broken steering column that cost Senna a place on the list and at least 2, perhaps even 3 of the drivers mentioned when asked would say "Senna" themselves!
That's ridiculous. Without putting Ayrton Senna in column, how can you expect to get a proper answer?
Oops! Makes that Fangio's "era." and Schumacher's engine failure at Japan, the penultimate race of "2006" not the last race. and not "2008." Sorry. Expert went too fast. Hehe. See below:
The Japanese Grand Prix was led by Schumacher with only 16 laps to go, when, for the first time since the 2000 French Grand Prix, Schumacher's car suffered an engine failure. Alonso won the race, giving himself a ten-point championship lead. With only one race left in the season, Schumacher could only win the championship if he won the season finale and Alonso scored no points.
Wishing Michael better luck now in 2014.
The records speak for themselves. Senna (spelled "Ayrton" not "Airton" BTW - Such experts!) did not win four titles, just as Niki Lauda, Nelson Piquet, etc didn't and there is nothing saying they would have. It has never been confirmed there was a steering failure at Imola causing Senna's fatal accident and just as many believe it was simply a mistake by Senna. For some reason "pro-Senites" try to perpetuate the Senna myth emotionally simply because he died. He was a great, and sadly died, but survival was part of the record for all.
Fangio was greatness in his error. Michael Schumacher was as great as all his record indicates. Plus he won titles with two fledgling teams and dragged Ferrari up from failure to dominance. Seb Vettel has been in the cradle of a ultra successful team since he took the seat at Red Bull. At this point Vettel is only a little past half-way to Schumi's record (which but for an engine failure in the last race of 2008 would have been 8 titles) with a long way to go. See how "ifs" work? First you have to qualify, then you have to finish!
Comparing Fangio to the modern drivers is difficult. In his day the cars had no safety roll bars or seat belts, the tires would last hours on the track and were skinny. and the driver had to shift a crash box manually. There was nothing like downforce. The driver wore tee shirts and the helmets were primitive at best. The biggest stat that amazes me is that Fangio started his F1 career at age 40, when modern drivers are considered over the hill. he won champion ships in Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Maserati and Mercedes. He almost never made a mistake and did not have to resort to dirty driving to win. I voted for him as the greatest ever, realizing it is not a fair comparison.
I am not familiar enough to judge the greatness of Juan Manuel Fangio but Alain Prost is certainly much better than either Schumacher or Vettel.
For those who have forgotten Alain Prost had for teammates Airton Senna, Nikki Lauda (three times world champion) and Nigel Mansell (also world champion). He had also to compete a full decade against Nelson Picket (three times world champion).
In 1986, he became Champion in his McLaren despite the fact that Williams had a much better car. In 1989 he won again Senna on equal terms. In 1990, he gave him a real fight despite the fact that his Ferrary was in no way better than Senna's McLaren. I
n those circumstances, Schumacher and Vetter would have been blown away. The evidence for this is that either of them refuses/refused to drive with a comparable driver. Why do you think Red Bull chose Daniel Ricciardo instead of Kimi Raikonen as a replacement for Mark Webber?
To conclude, Alan Prost has certainly not been a very nice person but his talant and determination are exceptional. You may argue that Senna or indeed Fangio are better than him because they proved themselves in very difficult circumstances and I would accept the point but Schumacher and Vettel are not in their league at all. They may break all records but this is not their merit. Instead it was achieved by Ross Brown, Rory Burny, Adrian Newey e.t.c
Agreed. Where is Senna? Michael cried when he matched Senna's win record. And it's been so long ago and the sport has changed so much I almost don't think it's right to include Fangio on these kinds of lists. Almost not right to compare him to modern champions it's so different now.
A top driver list that does not include Ayrton Senna? I know this is about 4 or more championships but it was a broken steering column that cost Senna a place on the list and at least 2, perhaps even 3 of the drivers mentioned when asked would say "Senna" themselves!
Ayrton Senna ??