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This Shuda been a landslide victory for Mobb.
just to clarify something for the people referring to 'The Infamous' being Mobb Deep's first album... it isn't. Murda Muzik is also a damn near classic to me (along with Infamous and Hell on Earth)...I'd say it's 4 to 4.5 mics. Sorry, Beastie Boys don't cut it. The legends wouldn't say otherwise only to 'pay respect' and 'keep the peace' in order for white people to feel more comfortable being a part of the culture. The Beastie Boys are only pioneers in the sense of them being three jewish white boys from Brooklyn who rapped and helped make HipHop go mainstream. Up until Eminem, Beastie Boys were the face of white people in HipHop. Speaking of Eminem...did someone say Eminem...greatest lyricist? Yeah, ummm...its kind of a prerequisite for GOAT status to NOT be corny. I can think of plenty of rappers who are exponentially wacker than Eminem... but none more corny.
It is comical that the beastie boys would even come close to beating Mobb Deep. It puts the legitimacy of this whole bracket into question.
@Ant..I fudged up. I was thinking of Junior MAFIA for some reason. Although, as you hypothesized, there was some posthumous Biggie/Mobb Deep production. Ha. Nevertheless, after giving myself a listening refresh, Beasties still get the vote in this matchup (even though I think they should have lost in Round 1).
@DK. It's not about about race. Eminem just downright sucks. His first single ("My Name Is") was cool because it was humorous and self-effacing (something fairly original); but he abandoned that model in an attempt to be a mainstream rapper and everyone realized he was a horrible MC. I'm guessing you are fairly young.
Newsflash: rap is a dying (or shall we just say dead?) genre. It has been all downhill since the turn of the century. Only some rarely known independent acts are any good. (I guess that is pretty much the case with all musical genres nowadays, but particularly hip-hop.) Rap music evolved out of disco, which is why a lot of the early stuff is pretty whack with the exception of a handful of iconic songs. The genre finally figured out what is was meant to be in the mid-to-late '80s and began dishing out the most innovative, candid music available; for about 15 years it was the uncontested champion of all art forms (although there is a bit an overlap in the late '90s as HBO's "Oz" began to revolutionize television.) Since Y2K, however, there has been a regrettable regression of hip-hop reverting back to its lame disco roots (it's like, if humans devolved back into thoughtless water creatures); all of the "rap" music marketed today is nothing but non-melodic bubblegum-pop dance music masquerading as a once singular, raw and aggressive artform called hip-hop. That is why this tournament is resonating with so many of us. Because it is hearkening back to a time when rap music was something exciting, thought-provoking, and worthwhile.
Also... Eminem? Eminem is considered on of the best of all time because of race? Are you fucking deaf? Rakim and Eminem isn't a competition, it's splitting hairs, they're both the greatest lyricist of all time, period, there is no argument to be made, and bringing race into it is again showing your lack of understanding of hip-hop. People make me sick, every time a white guy is involved in hip-hop, race suddenly becomes an issue, when there are countless white failures in hip-hop history, as if being white somehow helps an artist rise in the hip-hop game, when in reality it is and always will be a detriment, simply because of all the morons questioning their talents simply because they're white. You going to seriously contend that if Eminem was black, and everything else was the exact same with his music, he wouldn't be considered an all-time great? The fuck outta here...
Why the fuck are people bringing up Macklemore and Kendrick Lamar? That has nothing to do with this, and everything to do with the way popular music works, it's never about who's better when it comes to awards and shit, it has to do with who is more popular, and no matter how much better Kendrick is than Macklemore, he'll never win because he's too real, his talent is too embedded in pure hip-hop and straight up lyricism, alongside a profound ability to tell a story through his rhymes.... This is what makes legends in hip-hop, but it doesn't win the awards of the popular music crowd because far too many people are not smart enough to "get" his greatness.
Beastie Boys are not legends because they're white, they're legends because they fundamentally changed the fucking game on a record by record basis, Pauls Boutique is still one of the most groundbreaking and revolutionary albums of all time, and stands today as amongst the most influential as well, it spawned a culture in and of itself. Beastie Boys had lyrics, beats, rhymes, flow, they had humor but could also be serious, they transcend hip-hop, time, and race. Who the fuck in hip-hop could stay relevant until for 30+ years? The greats, period, race don't fucking matter when it comes to being great, if that was the case Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch wouldn't be a joke, along with the hundreds of other white rappers and rap groups that never amounted to shit.
Anyone who thinks Beastie Boys aren't great, and that it has anything to do with race and not about their music is a fucking idiot and should be banished from ever speaking about hip-hop ever again. Mobb Deep is great, but like others have stated, they fell off after 2 great records, Beastie Boys started out as a straight up punk band and churned out 2+ decades of classic hip-hop albums that not only were incredible to listen to, but actually changed hip-hop forever, and expanded peoples perceptions of what hip-hop was and could be.
And for all you white vs. black mother fuckers, Beastie Boys get their props from all variety of Legends for being Legendary their damn selves. They were not a gimmick, and their longevity had nothing to do with being Caucasian. It had everything to do with the dopest of beats, fresh lyrics, charisma, the interplay, and staying true to the principles of dope hip hop. Mobb Deep is one of my favorite groups as well, but again, the quality after the first two albums is spotty. Beastie Boys go four classics deep before you start talking about inconsistency.
Face it, Mobb Deep hasn't been all that consistent. You got Paul's Boutique, Check Your Head, Ill Communication. Infamous is a hall of famer, Hell on Earth as well, after that, the output declines steadily in quality. Throw in Licensed to Ill, also a classic, Hello Nasty, countless B-Sides that are never less than ill..
We have officially lost our culture. The Beastie boys vs Cypress Hill in the finals
Mobb Deep had an association with Biggie? What are you talking about 'Supervillain_T'? I can't even think of a single track that featured Prodigy or Havoc with Biggie. Maybe Hav produced something posthumously... but I don't even know about that. Is something slipping my mind completely?
Wait they votin against the MOBB?!! Whatever party's over tell the rest of tha crew...
Man I really feel the beastie boys deserve to win the whole thing but I don't think they'll get by the wu next round... if the beastie boys don't win, I hope outkast does
I voted emphatically for M.O.P. over Beastie Boys. But in this matchup, Beasies are the better option. Mobb Deep, much like The Lox, would have very little recognition or praise if not for their association with Biggie. You could say the same thing about Tha Dogg Pound on the west coast: while they have some talented members, their biggest contributions to hip-hop came from their guest appearances on the records of other Death Row artists.
You could put out a Beastie Boys Greatest Hits playlist and it still wouldn't be better than Infamous.
The Beastie Boys are hip hop and transcend it at the same time. They are one of the most unique hip hop bands of all time. I think their uniqueness is probably partially that they are white and were into punk. They are definitely a hip hop anomaly. And don't forget they were in the game WAY before it was mainstream
@Matt Gold
You can't put Cypress Hill in this discussion. Because Cypress Hill is ACTUALLY very good. I bet you anything, here, take my pinkie, that 90% of people who voted for Beastie Boys are white. And i don't give a shit if you think it's racist or anything. Goddamn Macklemore won over Kendrick Lamar. We might just end this discussion right now. It's ridiculous. If there was a poll Eminem vs Rakim, do you really believe Rakim would ever won? No way. No fucking way. And Rakim is better than Eminem. Rakim is GREATER than Eminem. (I'm white, just in case)
Oh ok. It has nothing to do with race. Macklemore's album was just better than everyone else's. My bad..
I don't think JRLA would approve of you guys making this a black/white issue. Some people that voted for Mobb Deep are white, some people that voted for Beastie Boys are black. You think only Latinos were the only ones voting for Cypress Hill? Squash that shit - it makes you look stupid.
I guess the beastie boys are the greatest group and eminem is the greatest rapper?? White people are always trying to rewrite history by devaluing the contributions of non whites. It's disgusting.
Everyone's different, but for me "The Infamous" and "Hell on Earth" are better than any single Beastie Boys album. I feel like this has to do with age more than anything, cause I don't see it.
I remember when my older brother went through his beasties boys phase. It was EXCRUCIATING. I wanted to get out and walk. I figured they'd win a few rounds though- for obvious reason.
Lotta white guys voting here i guess. Shook Ones Pt II alone is better than everything Beastie Boys ever done
I go with Mobb Deep, Shook One pt 2 is my all time fav hip hop track, just nothing like it. Tough choice doe
Are the Beastie Boys the Elvis of hip hop?
Beastie Boys' last album dropped in 2011... and it was #2 on the chart with practically no promotion since MCA was battling cancer. From 1986-2011... that's ridiculous longevity. People argue albums like Check Your Head and Ill Communication were not hip hop, but they brought diversity into the game. As much as I respect Mobb Deep, I gotta go with the Beasties
My vote is with the Infamous Mobb, but the real travesty here is that one of these two lose out while either Cypress Hill or Geto Boyz advance. Makes this years NCAA seeding look logical by comparison.
Don't get scared, just be prepared for the worst.
@matt I can respect that reasoning for sure I think if emceesnof thatbera were voting beastie boys would def be close to the top they paved the way for a lotta cats but run dmc in my opinion are true pioneers of rap ithink the bboys took the baton from them and though I'm not one of. fthose people thatthink hip hop issuppose to sound a certain way think they did lose touch musically with hip hop a little not in there involvement or love but in there sound int here later years but with being said sabotage is hard core hip hop and one of my favorite tracks in the same vain as by the time I get to arizona by pe or rock box by rundmc I say that cause that is the point that many believe they turned from hip hop
Let's keep it real a lot of us didn't listen to them cause they were white boys inthe early stages of hip hop but I was one of them at first I hatedfight for your right to party till I heard the whole album those beats are stilled being sampled today and are super sick you might not have listen to them but all the rappers that we group up loving did they are definetly alltime great that infamous cdchanged my life though that one cd could carry them all the way to the final four!!!....... wu tang forever!!!!!
You gotta go with the Mobb off of the strength of The Infamous album alone. Straight up grimy beats and lyrics.
@ant I love atcolove them to death the whe native tounge for that matter but as much I love them they're not on black thought's level lyrically I wi give it to them interms of influence but musically I think quest love is a genius and that's not to knock atco I just think roots are slightly betterand I do mean slightly.....smh this is hard
I've been listening to rap my whole life. I'm 35 and I have never heard a beastie boys album. Nor have I ever been around anyone listening to Beastie Boys. Nuff said!
I was like 9 or 10 when Beasties first came out, I was like damn... and I have their albums. So, I got love for them. Mobb Deep? I have a tradition that started in college. When I came home, I would throw in the Infamous at soon as I got on I-275 in Cincy, heading toward my house. I listened to it all the way to Shook Ones by the time I reached my house. My family would always be standing outside waiting for me because of that loud bumping ass sound coming out, and they always knew it was me. About 20 years have passed and I still do that to this day when I get close to Cincy, Infamous or some other bumping, Mobb Deep, never fail. Mobb over Beastie.
Queens get the money long time no cash caught up in the hustle where the guns go blast retaliated so i had to think fast pull out my heat first he pulls his heat last now who the f you think is living to this day I'm trying to show these young n&@@ crime don't pay he looked at me and said queens n@$$ don't play do ya thing ill do mines kid stay outta my way
Beasty boys were never a true hip hop group, they sound like some rock group influence by hip-hop.
Mob deep on the other side is as hip hop as it can get. Queenbridge represent. If you ever liked wu, this is as close as it gets.
For the record... it's not an easy decision. I have maaaaad love for Havoc and Prodigy. Is any one Beastie album better than The Infamous...? Paul's Boutique would give it a run - but as hip hop has evolved as have my ears - no. If I had to choose one album to have in a blaster on a deserted island, The Infamous would be somewhere on that list. But so would 36 Chambers and ATLiens (and Aquemini).
If you're gonna give love to Run DMC, Wu-Tang and Public Enemy for their *hip hop* influence - not just the merits of all their albums - you have to give the nod to Beastie Boys. Sure some albums on their face were not the best, but their influence on expanding the galaxy of hip hop is undeniable.
Beastie Boys be whack!
Looks like the beastie boys are like the Cinderella team in the tournament first defeating M.O.P and now which looks like beating Mobb Deep.
@Ant - 100% agree. It's absolutely ridiculous to give the Beastie Boys credit for other group's success. If we used that logic, I guess the greatest hip-hop group of all time was the Sugarhill Gang because without Rapper's Delight no one outside the Bronx would know what hip-hop is.
My mind says Beasties but my heart says Mobb Deep. Survival of the Fittest. Eye for an Eye. Give Up The Goods. Right Back At You. Drink Away the Pain. Shook Ones 2. Front Lines (Hell on Earth). Quiet Storm...
As much as I hate to admit it, I'm voting Mobb Deep.
Imfamous and Hell on Earth are better than anything the Beastie Boys put together. Thats with all respect to the Beastie Boys.
I think the votes are going towards the beastie boys because of the demographic that listens to this podcast.
For the most part, I'm pretty sure the people voting for the Beastie Boys here are the same people voting for Roots over ATCQ and Black Star over PE.
Matt, with your clearly vast knowledge of hiphop history you should write for Vice..or better yet, the Onion. GTFOH. Your repetitive assertion about 'giving exposure' reeks of white privilege. Think about it.
The Beastie Boys are legends, but they don't have one album that even approaches how great "The Infamous" is. They do get points for greater consistency, I suppose. I still think Mobb Deep should get this one.
@freebrd - I hear you loud and clear, It's going to burn to have to vote Beasties over Wu in round 3 and PE's legacy will live on forever, as well it should - the Bboys can't touch them lyrically/politically. Although I have mad respect for the Roots and have seen them a number of times...I just can't put them in that legendary status quite yet...Chuck D and Questlove (and LL Cool J) willingly admit the Beastie boys teaching them the ropes and taking them on tour...giving them the exposure needed. Which is why I continue to vote Beasties as they gave back to the game consistently with quality hip hop that wasn't just their own. They were repping Brooklyn, smoking cheeba and samples before it was even en vogue to do so.
Its good to see the bestie boys getting there props but winning the whole thing? I think public enemy and the roots got the edge on them and its a toss up for 4 the alltime between rundmc and the but then again .....ok third all time I will put them both over the roots reluctantly but one and two are wu and pe hands down
as much as I love me some Shook Ones pt II, hip hop isn't all about grit and grime. "the Infamous" was a good album and all, but Beastie Boys put out at least 3 good albums. Also if you are old enough to remember when Beastie Boys albums dropped, their beats were SICK back then.
I consider level of quality (even if on just one album) more relevant than longevity and relevance. The beats alone on "The Infamous..." blow anything the Beastie Boys ever did out of the water. There's a rawness and grittiness to that album that creates a feeling in your mind and body that's hard to shake long after listening to it.
If folks know their history, Beastie Boys should win this whole thing against Run DMC in the final. Longevity of career and maintaining relevant to the day MCA passed says it all...a lot of these groups got corny around album #3. The Beasties took groups like Public Enemy, Cypress, The Roots, House of Pain out on the road and exposed them to the masses. Pauls Boutique.
man this was a hard choice, beastie boys so unique but shook ones part 2 and survival of the fittest are such good songs definitely the hardest choice yet.