this is why the Baptist Church gets such a bad reputation for being judgemental.They are allowed to make individual determinations in their church. There is no governing body that tells them they can't do this. If they are to be challenged legally it is on the basis of discrimination not religious affiliation. From a moral and religious vantage point I would be inclined to ask what the church wanted? the young lady was pregnant what would they have her do? She lives with the father they are engaged,she's pregnant. I think the leaders in this church and the people involved in the situation need to remember that the Bible tells us to use discernment and God judgment. Discernment is when you know right from wrong and behave accordingly; judgment is you know right from wrong and make sure everybody else is behaving accordingly. So many times we forget which is our job and which belongs to God.
Lisa - 9 years ago
Only GOD has the right to judge anyone. Leave the girl alone. I bet there are a lot of people in that church who have had situations such as this.
Catherine - 9 years ago
What the the church is doing is illegal in the eyes of the Lord and the Law. God never gave any individual or entity permission to judge anyone. Nor did the Law. She (and the church administrators) will be judged by the Authority and the authorities.
Penny - 9 years ago
I can understand both sides and why people send their children to a Christian daycare. However she is engaged and I really don't think Jesus would fire her because she can't give him a wedding date right now. I believe he would give her a chance to make things right. I do understand people sending their children to Christian daycare because they do not want them taught or doing things the world's way. Give her a chance first!
q - 9 years ago
The church is wrong
Mom - 9 years ago
People or the church have no right to judge my daughter or her husband to be. They both are very good people and are excellent parents. I could not be more proud of them (FOR DOIND THEIR BEST) they are two young adults trying to do right. They don't go out bar hopping, they work come and be a family. They don't do drug, so people wake up and live in the real world. I am so sick of people who judge others, when they more then likely has done the same or worse and just didn't get caught. Theirs so many unhappy family out their without love and are just there for the comfort or life style. What is the world becoming. Apryl has gone to church sense she was born, but you know what, you don't have to go to church to be a Christian. There are so many people in the church that claims to be a Christian, but live a life of nothing but lies. I am a Christian, and I do my best to be a kind caring person, but I'm not afraid to admit I do sin, just like everyone else in this mean world. People really do need to read the Bible ( I mean really read it ) because you should not be out here judging someone else, because you will be judge by the All mighty God! Apryl has lost her father and the death of another unborn child, within the last year. People needs to give her a break. I feel she and James needs this little miracle baby ( and yes that what he is) God doesn't make mistake. God has a hand in all our lives, he knows what's going to happen in our lives before we do. My question is? Why if they knew Apryl had a child out of marriage when they hired her. They gave her a great review and a rise (for what) if they were going to fired her, and if he was not a good employee they would not kept her this long. And based on her Christmas presents she received from the daycare parents they must love her and so that's not the real issue. What is?
chris - 9 years ago
It is a confusing situation, especially if the church had prior knowledge of her relationship. The churich has the responsibility to demonstrate the love of God and the life He wants his people to live. In demonstrating the love of God, they MUST do everything that is Biblically right to show this employee that they love her. If they terminate her employment, then they should meet her needs that the missing paychecks will cause (for a while at least). In demonstrating the live that God desires for us to live, they should have counseled her before employing her. The Bible is true that Jesus said to the woman caught in an immoral relationship "Neither do I cast judgment against you. Go and sin no more." Notice that Jesus' non-judgment on the lady did not include inviting her to a position of leadership within the religious organization of the day. (Please remember that marriage is not a commadent to people in Scripture unless they have issues staying moral). If the church had no prior knowledge of her lifestyle which on the surface may be outside of a Biblical norm, then they do have the right to address it. I think that requiring the people to set a marriage date is WRONG howevet. This is their life together and they make their decisions. With that being said, this doesn't negate the church's right to address her employment status since she is in a position of authority under their organization. To further confuse the situation, if the church DID have prior knowledge, then this question is begged, "why would they set themselves up for scrutiny by allowing this to happen on the first place?" Interesting story. I'm sure that some will try to spin this into a "Christians are the worst people to be born" feeling. I hope others will be able to think deeper about the matter and see the truth here: this isn't about them and their feelings anyway. This is about a family who has been hurt, and the church's responsibility to reconcile the family to God first, and the church second.
Judy Barrett - 9 years ago
I do not care who or what you are,you have know right to tell a person when to get married.That is your GOD given right to decide....
Mike - 9 years ago
I was raised in a very small town in North Carolina right in the bible belt. For reasons like this one and others, I quit going to church all together. To me most churches need to get in touch with present day lifestyles and not basing every single action of our lives on a very old book. Times change, lifestyles change.
Jenna Nixon - 9 years ago
I know this woman and have worked with her and her fiance. They are both very devoted and loving people and parents. Don't judge the situation because you've only seen a brief description of their life. None of you know what she has gone through and if you did, you would change your opinions. She has come a very long way and I, myself, am very proud of her and James.
Children are raised by there parents....therefore if your a good role model and teach them whats right and wrong....they will follow you on the path you take them....Being married is a label shouldnt cost u your job....by the way the bible makes it clear that jesus wasnt even married!?!
Betty Herring - 9 years ago
In John 8:1 & 2, Jesus came from the mount of Olives at dawn into the temple. The people came to him in crowds. He sat down and was teaching them. In verse 3 it tells of the scribes and Pharisees bringing a woman to Him who had been caught in adultery . They made her stand in the middle of the court and put the case before Him. They said to Him in John verses 8:4-5..."Teacher, they said, this woman has been caught in the very act of adultery." {verse 5} ....."'Now Moses in the Law commanded us that such {women} shall be stoned to death. But what do You say {to do with her}? What is your sentence?" {Re: Deut. 22:22-24} . John 8:6 "This they said to try {test} Him, hoping they might find a charge to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger. " John 8:7 "However, when they persisted their question, He raised Himself up and said 'Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.'" John 8:8 "Then He bent down and went on writing on the ground with His finger. (John 8:9 )They listened to Him and then they began going out consciensce-stricken one by one, from the oldest down to the last one of them, til Jesus was left alone with the woman standing there before Him in the center of the court." John 8: 10-12 says "When Jesus raised up He said to her, 'Woman, where are your accusers? Has no man condemmed you?' She answered, 'No one, Lord!' And Jesus said, 'I do not condemn you either. Go on your way, and from now on sin no more.'" Once more Jesus addressed the crowd. He said, 'I am the Light of the world. He who follows Me will not be walking in the dark, but will have the Light which is Life.'".....
And it goes on with the the Pharisees telling him his testimony is not valid and is worthless. Then, in John 8:14-19 He answered "Jesus answered. 'Even if I so testify on My own behalf, My testimony is true and reliable and valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going, but you do not know where I came from or where I am going,. You {set yourselves up to} judge according to the flesh---by what you see; you condemn by external, human standards. I do not {set Myself up to} judge or condemn or sentence anyone. Yet even if I do judge, My judge is true--My decision is right; for I am not alone {in making it}, but {there are two of Us}, I and the Father who sent me. In your {own} Law it is written that the testimony {evidence} of two persons is reliable and valid. {Duet 9:19:15}. I am one {of the Two} bearing testimony concerning Myself, and My Father Who sent Me. He also testifies about Me.' Then they said to Him, 'Where is this Father of yours?' Jesus answered 'You know My Father as little as you know Me. If you knew Me, you would know My Father also,.'"
I beleive that in this scripture, Jesus is telling us to be careful how we judge. He did tell the woman to go and "sin no more". So, if this lady is not getting married, the Word is affirming what the church is saying. However, she has worked there for a while with no problem. The law in Virginia "right to work" supports the church.
My questions are: Why now? What prompted the change? Did someone complain who has children there? Did she instruct the children that she was not married and that it's okay in today's world?
What happened all of a sudden that changed the status of her employment? Was it someone in authority or HR who was tired of putting up with her not being married? Or was the decision made by the Deacon Board?
It is a confusing situation.
Betty Tucker - 9 years ago
In John 8:1 & 2, Jesus came from the mount of Olives at dawn into the temple. The people came to him in crowds. He sat down and was teaching them. In verse 3 it tells of the scribes and Pharisees bringing a woman to Him who had been caught in adultery . They made her stand in the middle of the court and put the case before Him. They said to Him in John verses 8:4-5..."Teacher, they said, this woman has been caught in the very act of adultery." {verse 5} ....."'Now Moses in the Law commanded us that such {women} shall be stoned to death. But what do You say {to do with her}? What is your sentence?" {Re: Deut. 22:22-24} . John 8:6 "This they said to try {test} Him, hoping they might find a charge to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger. " John 8:7 "However, when they persisted their question, He raised Himself up and said 'Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.'" John 8:8 "Then He bent down and went on writing on the ground with His finger. (John 8:9 )They listened to Him and then they began going out consciensce-stricken one by one, from the oldest down to the last one of them, til Jesus was left alone with the woman standing there before Him in the center of the court." John 8: 10-12 says "When Jesus raised up He said to her, 'Woman, where are your accusers? Has no man condemmed you?' She answered, 'No one, Lord!' And Jesus said, 'I do not condemn you either. Go on your way, and from now on sin no more.'" Once more Jesus addressed the crowd. He said, 'I am the Light of the world. He who follows Me will not be walking in the dark, but will have the Light which is Life.'".....
And it goes on with the the Pharisees telling him his testimony is not valid and is worthless. Then, in John 8:14-19 He answered "Jesus answered. 'Even if I so testify on My own behalf, My testimony is true and reliable and valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going, but you do not know where I came from or where I am going,. You {set yourselves up to} judge according to the flesh---by what you see; you condemn by external, human standards. I do not {set Myself up to} judge or condemn or sentence anyone. Yet even if I do judge, My judge is true--My decision is right; for I am not alone {in making it}, but {there are two of Us}, I and the Father who sent me. In your {own} Law it is written that the testimony {evidence} of two persons is reliable and valid. {Duet 9:19:15}. I am one {of the Two} bearing testimony concerning Myself, and My Father Who sent Me. He also testifies about Me.' Then they said to Him, 'Where is this Father of yours?' Jesus answered 'You know My Father as little as you know Me. If you knew Me, you would know My Father also,.'"
I beleive that in this scripture, Jesus is telling us to be careful how we judge. He did tell the woman to go and "sin no more". So, if this lady is not getting married, the Word is affirming what the church is saying. However, she has worked there for a while with no problem. The law in Virginia "right to work" supports the church.
My questions are: Why now? What prompted the change? Did someone complain who has children there? Did she instruct the children that she was not married and that it's okay in today's world?
What happened all of a sudden that changed the status of her employment? Was it someone in authority or HR who was tired of putting up with her not being married? Or was the decision made by the Deacon Board?
It is a confusing situation.
Missy - 9 years ago
I'm pretty sure Jesus would work with her regardless. I mean, isn't that what's great for. Isn't that what he wanted us to learn from him?
Lonnie - 9 years ago
If she already has a child by her "fiance" and now is expecting another she has shown marrage isn't in her plans. The childcare people have every right to question her orher morals.
Tousant - 9 years ago
"You can't judge a person on their lifestyle"? For heaven's sake by what then do you judge them? As a Christian organization, this church has the right and duty to ensure that their staff reflects their Christian beliefs in their personal "lifestyles." If you don't reflect the values of McDonald's, they can fire you.
I don't think that a church is a "public accommodation" and thus they can pretty do what they please.
Linda - 9 years ago
People choose to send their children to a Christian Day Care or School because they want their children to be exposed to specific life principles according to the Word of God. Yes they need to model grace, but it sends a wrong set of morality to small children who do not yet have the ability to discern those principles, or lack thereof, if the care they are placed in does not walk in the principles they are being taught. Confusing!
this is why the Baptist Church gets such a bad reputation for being judgemental.They are allowed to make individual determinations in their church. There is no governing body that tells them they can't do this. If they are to be challenged legally it is on the basis of discrimination not religious affiliation. From a moral and religious vantage point I would be inclined to ask what the church wanted? the young lady was pregnant what would they have her do? She lives with the father they are engaged,she's pregnant. I think the leaders in this church and the people involved in the situation need to remember that the Bible tells us to use discernment and God judgment. Discernment is when you know right from wrong and behave accordingly; judgment is you know right from wrong and make sure everybody else is behaving accordingly. So many times we forget which is our job and which belongs to God.
Only GOD has the right to judge anyone. Leave the girl alone. I bet there are a lot of people in that church who have had situations such as this.
What the the church is doing is illegal in the eyes of the Lord and the Law. God never gave any individual or entity permission to judge anyone. Nor did the Law. She (and the church administrators) will be judged by the Authority and the authorities.
I can understand both sides and why people send their children to a Christian daycare. However she is engaged and I really don't think Jesus would fire her because she can't give him a wedding date right now. I believe he would give her a chance to make things right. I do understand people sending their children to Christian daycare because they do not want them taught or doing things the world's way. Give her a chance first!
The church is wrong
People or the church have no right to judge my daughter or her husband to be. They both are very good people and are excellent parents. I could not be more proud of them (FOR DOIND THEIR BEST) they are two young adults trying to do right. They don't go out bar hopping, they work come and be a family. They don't do drug, so people wake up and live in the real world. I am so sick of people who judge others, when they more then likely has done the same or worse and just didn't get caught. Theirs so many unhappy family out their without love and are just there for the comfort or life style. What is the world becoming. Apryl has gone to church sense she was born, but you know what, you don't have to go to church to be a Christian. There are so many people in the church that claims to be a Christian, but live a life of nothing but lies. I am a Christian, and I do my best to be a kind caring person, but I'm not afraid to admit I do sin, just like everyone else in this mean world. People really do need to read the Bible ( I mean really read it ) because you should not be out here judging someone else, because you will be judge by the All mighty God! Apryl has lost her father and the death of another unborn child, within the last year. People needs to give her a break. I feel she and James needs this little miracle baby ( and yes that what he is) God doesn't make mistake. God has a hand in all our lives, he knows what's going to happen in our lives before we do. My question is? Why if they knew Apryl had a child out of marriage when they hired her. They gave her a great review and a rise (for what) if they were going to fired her, and if he was not a good employee they would not kept her this long. And based on her Christmas presents she received from the daycare parents they must love her and so that's not the real issue. What is?
It is a confusing situation, especially if the church had prior knowledge of her relationship. The churich has the responsibility to demonstrate the love of God and the life He wants his people to live. In demonstrating the love of God, they MUST do everything that is Biblically right to show this employee that they love her. If they terminate her employment, then they should meet her needs that the missing paychecks will cause (for a while at least). In demonstrating the live that God desires for us to live, they should have counseled her before employing her. The Bible is true that Jesus said to the woman caught in an immoral relationship "Neither do I cast judgment against you. Go and sin no more." Notice that Jesus' non-judgment on the lady did not include inviting her to a position of leadership within the religious organization of the day. (Please remember that marriage is not a commadent to people in Scripture unless they have issues staying moral). If the church had no prior knowledge of her lifestyle which on the surface may be outside of a Biblical norm, then they do have the right to address it. I think that requiring the people to set a marriage date is WRONG howevet. This is their life together and they make their decisions. With that being said, this doesn't negate the church's right to address her employment status since she is in a position of authority under their organization. To further confuse the situation, if the church DID have prior knowledge, then this question is begged, "why would they set themselves up for scrutiny by allowing this to happen on the first place?" Interesting story. I'm sure that some will try to spin this into a "Christians are the worst people to be born" feeling. I hope others will be able to think deeper about the matter and see the truth here: this isn't about them and their feelings anyway. This is about a family who has been hurt, and the church's responsibility to reconcile the family to God first, and the church second.
I do not care who or what you are,you have know right to tell a person when to get married.That is your GOD given right to decide....
I was raised in a very small town in North Carolina right in the bible belt. For reasons like this one and others, I quit going to church all together. To me most churches need to get in touch with present day lifestyles and not basing every single action of our lives on a very old book. Times change, lifestyles change.
I know this woman and have worked with her and her fiance. They are both very devoted and loving people and parents. Don't judge the situation because you've only seen a brief description of their life. None of you know what she has gone through and if you did, you would change your opinions. She has come a very long way and I, myself, am very proud of her and James.
If she doesn't talk about living with her fiancé while at work, I don't see why they should have a problem with it. Marriage is nothing but a piece of paper issued by the government. We don't know her past circumstances. Maybe she was in an abusive marriage and is afraid to get married again. All the church should be worried about is how she performs her job. As long as she doesn't bring up her marital status while at work, it's no one's business whether or not she has that piece of paper.
Children are raised by there parents....therefore if your a good role model and teach them whats right and wrong....they will follow you on the path you take them....Being married is a label shouldnt cost u your job....by the way the bible makes it clear that jesus wasnt even married!?!
In John 8:1 & 2, Jesus came from the mount of Olives at dawn into the temple. The people came to him in crowds. He sat down and was teaching them. In verse 3 it tells of the scribes and Pharisees bringing a woman to Him who had been caught in adultery . They made her stand in the middle of the court and put the case before Him. They said to Him in John verses 8:4-5..."Teacher, they said, this woman has been caught in the very act of adultery." {verse 5} ....."'Now Moses in the Law commanded us that such {women} shall be stoned to death. But what do You say {to do with her}? What is your sentence?" {Re: Deut. 22:22-24} . John 8:6 "This they said to try {test} Him, hoping they might find a charge to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger. " John 8:7 "However, when they persisted their question, He raised Himself up and said 'Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.'" John 8:8 "Then He bent down and went on writing on the ground with His finger. (John 8:9 )They listened to Him and then they began going out consciensce-stricken one by one, from the oldest down to the last one of them, til Jesus was left alone with the woman standing there before Him in the center of the court." John 8: 10-12 says "When Jesus raised up He said to her, 'Woman, where are your accusers? Has no man condemmed you?' She answered, 'No one, Lord!' And Jesus said, 'I do not condemn you either. Go on your way, and from now on sin no more.'" Once more Jesus addressed the crowd. He said, 'I am the Light of the world. He who follows Me will not be walking in the dark, but will have the Light which is Life.'".....
And it goes on with the the Pharisees telling him his testimony is not valid and is worthless. Then, in John 8:14-19 He answered "Jesus answered. 'Even if I so testify on My own behalf, My testimony is true and reliable and valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going, but you do not know where I came from or where I am going,. You {set yourselves up to} judge according to the flesh---by what you see; you condemn by external, human standards. I do not {set Myself up to} judge or condemn or sentence anyone. Yet even if I do judge, My judge is true--My decision is right; for I am not alone {in making it}, but {there are two of Us}, I and the Father who sent me. In your {own} Law it is written that the testimony {evidence} of two persons is reliable and valid. {Duet 9:19:15}. I am one {of the Two} bearing testimony concerning Myself, and My Father Who sent Me. He also testifies about Me.' Then they said to Him, 'Where is this Father of yours?' Jesus answered 'You know My Father as little as you know Me. If you knew Me, you would know My Father also,.'"
I beleive that in this scripture, Jesus is telling us to be careful how we judge. He did tell the woman to go and "sin no more". So, if this lady is not getting married, the Word is affirming what the church is saying. However, she has worked there for a while with no problem. The law in Virginia "right to work" supports the church.
My questions are: Why now? What prompted the change? Did someone complain who has children there? Did she instruct the children that she was not married and that it's okay in today's world?
What happened all of a sudden that changed the status of her employment? Was it someone in authority or HR who was tired of putting up with her not being married? Or was the decision made by the Deacon Board?
It is a confusing situation.
In John 8:1 & 2, Jesus came from the mount of Olives at dawn into the temple. The people came to him in crowds. He sat down and was teaching them. In verse 3 it tells of the scribes and Pharisees bringing a woman to Him who had been caught in adultery . They made her stand in the middle of the court and put the case before Him. They said to Him in John verses 8:4-5..."Teacher, they said, this woman has been caught in the very act of adultery." {verse 5} ....."'Now Moses in the Law commanded us that such {women} shall be stoned to death. But what do You say {to do with her}? What is your sentence?" {Re: Deut. 22:22-24} . John 8:6 "This they said to try {test} Him, hoping they might find a charge to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger. " John 8:7 "However, when they persisted their question, He raised Himself up and said 'Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.'" John 8:8 "Then He bent down and went on writing on the ground with His finger. (John 8:9 )They listened to Him and then they began going out consciensce-stricken one by one, from the oldest down to the last one of them, til Jesus was left alone with the woman standing there before Him in the center of the court." John 8: 10-12 says "When Jesus raised up He said to her, 'Woman, where are your accusers? Has no man condemmed you?' She answered, 'No one, Lord!' And Jesus said, 'I do not condemn you either. Go on your way, and from now on sin no more.'" Once more Jesus addressed the crowd. He said, 'I am the Light of the world. He who follows Me will not be walking in the dark, but will have the Light which is Life.'".....
And it goes on with the the Pharisees telling him his testimony is not valid and is worthless. Then, in John 8:14-19 He answered "Jesus answered. 'Even if I so testify on My own behalf, My testimony is true and reliable and valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going, but you do not know where I came from or where I am going,. You {set yourselves up to} judge according to the flesh---by what you see; you condemn by external, human standards. I do not {set Myself up to} judge or condemn or sentence anyone. Yet even if I do judge, My judge is true--My decision is right; for I am not alone {in making it}, but {there are two of Us}, I and the Father who sent me. In your {own} Law it is written that the testimony {evidence} of two persons is reliable and valid. {Duet 9:19:15}. I am one {of the Two} bearing testimony concerning Myself, and My Father Who sent Me. He also testifies about Me.' Then they said to Him, 'Where is this Father of yours?' Jesus answered 'You know My Father as little as you know Me. If you knew Me, you would know My Father also,.'"
I beleive that in this scripture, Jesus is telling us to be careful how we judge. He did tell the woman to go and "sin no more". So, if this lady is not getting married, the Word is affirming what the church is saying. However, she has worked there for a while with no problem. The law in Virginia "right to work" supports the church.
My questions are: Why now? What prompted the change? Did someone complain who has children there? Did she instruct the children that she was not married and that it's okay in today's world?
What happened all of a sudden that changed the status of her employment? Was it someone in authority or HR who was tired of putting up with her not being married? Or was the decision made by the Deacon Board?
It is a confusing situation.
I'm pretty sure Jesus would work with her regardless. I mean, isn't that what's great for. Isn't that what he wanted us to learn from him?
If she already has a child by her "fiance" and now is expecting another she has shown marrage isn't in her plans. The childcare people have every right to question her orher morals.
"You can't judge a person on their lifestyle"? For heaven's sake by what then do you judge them? As a Christian organization, this church has the right and duty to ensure that their staff reflects their Christian beliefs in their personal "lifestyles." If you don't reflect the values of McDonald's, they can fire you.
The church should never have employed this woman, if as she purports, they knew she was shacked up with her "fiancé" (a modern term used to refer to the guy who does not respect her enough to marry her).
I don't think that a church is a "public accommodation" and thus they can pretty do what they please.
People choose to send their children to a Christian Day Care or School because they want their children to be exposed to specific life principles according to the Word of God. Yes they need to model grace, but it sends a wrong set of morality to small children who do not yet have the ability to discern those principles, or lack thereof, if the care they are placed in does not walk in the principles they are being taught. Confusing!