There are plenty of non religious and non practicing Christians available so that anyone should be able to find a provider to satisfy his or her needs.Why would they want someone to care for them by force rather than by someone who does not have principles against certain things and is comfortable with their demands?
Why should the rights of of a demanding customer supersede the rights of a business owner?
Why can't the demanding customers be as tolerant of business owners as they want others to be tolerant of themselves?
Chris - 9 years ago
I would not serve anybody that tells me they were gay , though I would respect them as a person if they asked me nicely. But as a christian I would not let them say bad things about my business and I would sue them.
Chris H. - 9 years ago
You all are completely wrong and If I had a business I would have the right to not bake any cake for an atheist or if a same sex person wanted me to bake a cake, it would have to be one that does not violate my beliefs.
While claiming this law is no different than the flaccid ones passed in other states is a great talking point for fighting back the liberals, such an attitude will retard efforts to strengthen religious defense laws in other states with the new provisions in the Indiana law.
Indiana has taken the lead. Indiana allows not just people but entire businesses to be protected. It removes the ability of gay employees to sue over discrimination. It gives us the tools we need to grind gays into dust and force them out of the state. This is a righteous, just law that will benefit Indiana and drive perverts of all stripes away. It provides the legal framework to strip homosexuals of all their recourse within the state, something NO other state's laws offer.
Stop claiming the Indiana law is "just like" the ones in other states. Instead petition your state governments to add Indiana's better protections to their own laws.
In the next few months the Supreme Court of the United States is likely to rule that there is no Constitutional justification for denying law-abiding Gay couples the same opportunity to marry that Straight couples have always taken for granted.
So NOW the opponents of marriage equality are taking their revenge in a pro-active way, so that business owners who are against marriage equality can discriminate against Gay couples even if they are legally eligible to marry. Social and religious conservatives are nothing if not vindictive.
But a business is not a church. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about a bakery or a restaurant, a photo studio or a factory. They aren't in the business of providing spiritual guidance or enforcing moral doctrines. They are there to turn a profit. As such, they are obligated to abide by prevailing civil rights laws, whether those laws protect people from discrimination based on race, religion, or sexual orientation.
Conservative columnist Erick Erickson came to the defense of Christian business owners: "Committed Christians believe in a doctrine of vocation. They believe that their work is a form of ministry. Through their work, they can share the gospel and glorify God."
Oh, and also rake in as much money as possible. You can wax poetic all you want about "glorifying God," but at the end of the day these businesses wouldn't exist were it not for the profit motive.
Should a restaurant owner be able to refuse service to Blacks because he has "moral objections" to race-mixing? Should an employer be able to fire a Muslim employee because he wants to run "a nice Christian workplace"? And if a Christian florist agrees to provide flower arrangements at a Muslim couple's wedding, does it mean he is necessarily endorsing Islam?
If the answer to these questions is NO, what justification is there refusing service to a Gay couple who wish to get a wedding cake or celebrate their anniversary in a restaurant?
Bob Kostrubanic - 9 years ago
These comments are really sad. The intent of the law is not to discriminate, nor to protect those who do. 19 states have already passed one like it, as did the federal government as the nation's law several years ago. To date, all of the objections brought to the courts by a "religious" person under these laws have been rejected by the courts. Isn't this the way it's supposed to work ... giving the objector a chance in court to prove his or her point ? So why the big fever, and attacking this as Republicans wedded to "hate" ? Seems to me it's more of the same ... those claiming diversity as the champion aren't very good at being fair about someone diverse from them ! And by the way ... I have rebuffed authority when it pushed for me to make a decision contrary to my strongest religious beliefs on the job. That's also a part of this country's foundation. Quit banging away at it without reason or just cause !
Matt - 9 years ago
Did Spence stop and think how many jobs he would scare away by signing this abhorrent law? He's a sad excuse for a governor if you ask me.
gary wilson - 9 years ago
Has anyone asked the Republicans in that state what the "problem" was that spurred action on SB101?
Truthfully, I Cannot wait until the Muslims and/or Orthodox Jews and/or Buddhists and/or Zoroastrians and/or Hindus and/or Sikhs living in Indiana -- who will soon (effective 01 July 15) have the right to legally discriminate against the Christians in the state -- start doing so. Can't you just hear the Christians, "Persecution!" the first time the law is used against them. Let the fun begin.
Gary - 9 years ago
I am sort of glad that this has happened and people around the country and world are seeing how hateful the Republican party is toward gay taxpaying citizens. There are several of these same bills in other states waiting to be passed and signed, all with Republican governors and majorities.
RFRA is totally directed at the gay community and Pence knows it. He was asked 6 times yesterday on This Week if gays and lesbians would be discriminated against with RFRA and he would not answer.
Tell your family and friends, gay or straight, Republican or Democrats, about this calamity so they too can see just how hateful some Americans are toward other Americans.
I would hate so see what would happen if we had a Republican president to appease these type of Xtians.
Peter - 9 years ago
I feel sorry for the mostly good people of Indiana, whose already troubled economy will suffer because of this stupid law. Not sorry enough to break the boycott, though. Suggestion: recall this nutcase Pence before he does any further damage to your well-being. Looks like he didn't even take office with a majority so the votes should be there.
Chris - 9 years ago
What governor Pence did is inexcusable, Hoosiers need jobs not bills that would allow discrimination against tax paying citizens. I can not believe that these types of laws are even allowed to be enacted in our state in 2015. This state has been in a downward spiral since Mike Pence took office.
Karen - 9 years ago
Shame on governor Pence for promoting discrimination and putting Indiana's economic future in jeopardy. Every human being has a right to feel safe in his own community and what Mike Pence did can only be compared to laws enacted in non democratic societies. Indiana we deserve better than Mike Pence.
Gioia Nacca - 9 years ago
Fools flaunting their fear & ignorance deserve the intense back lash This State is beginning to feel. This will intensify as long as necessary. What religion teaches people to hate a certain minority! Christianity leads the list with the hypocritical "Love thy neighbor", only when he/she is exactly like me! Time to grow up Indiana! Hate is NOT a FAMILY VALUE!!
he /is lisat p ax
Hazumu - 9 years ago
Creative activists have already used this bill for non-LGBT purposes, such as the Church of Cannabis (suggested donation - $4.20.) I hope even more activists explore the non-LGBT unintended consequences of this bill, and leave the hater-legislators (and the governor) scrambling to enact legislation that says 'No, the bill does not specifically cover drug use/polyamory/racial discrimination/etc.' Eventually, all that will be left is animus towards LGBT, and the law will be struck down as unconstitutional.
Rich - 9 years ago
There is not now nor has there ever been any mischaracterization or misunderstanding of the origin of this bill. Fundamentalists and bigots in the Indiana Legislature are angry that they could not stop gay marriage. So, by God, they will punish gays in Indiana with a bill that will sanction outright discrimination in all manner of public accommodations. Nobody is fooled by this and now, the chickens have come home to roost. Indiana is in trouble; its citizens outraged and the rest of the nation in disbelief. Governor Pence has some serious back pedaling to do or it's going to get uglier.
Loves Irony - 9 years ago
at the governors behind doors signing: Micah Clark- believes being gay is a treatable disorder and he publicly rallied against a lesbian high schooler over a prom tux. Curtis Smith who equates being gay with beastiality and adultery, He helped write the bill. Eric Miller who distributed a fear mongering flier falsely claiming pastors could be jailed for preaching against homosexuality. Mike Pence voted against the repeal of Don't ask don't tell.
Lots of anti gay hate in a small group. Don't try and tell me this is not an anti gay bill
Derec Avery - 9 years ago
Wow. Can't wait until the Muslims (and Orthodox Jews and Buddhists and Zoroastrians and Hindus and Sikhs I think you get the point) living in Indiana who now have the right to legally discriminate against the Christians in the state start doing so. Though I suppose the Christians will be yelling, "Persecution!" the first time the law is used against them. Let the chaos begin. :-P
Bess - 9 years ago
Using God to justify discrimination is morally reprehensible.
Tony - 9 years ago
The RFRA is state sponsored discrimination , pure and simple.
There are plenty of non religious and non practicing Christians available so that anyone should be able to find a provider to satisfy his or her needs.Why would they want someone to care for them by force rather than by someone who does not have principles against certain things and is comfortable with their demands?
Why should the rights of of a demanding customer supersede the rights of a business owner?
Why can't the demanding customers be as tolerant of business owners as they want others to be tolerant of themselves?
I would not serve anybody that tells me they were gay , though I would respect them as a person if they asked me nicely. But as a christian I would not let them say bad things about my business and I would sue them.
You all are completely wrong and If I had a business I would have the right to not bake any cake for an atheist or if a same sex person wanted me to bake a cake, it would have to be one that does not violate my beliefs.
While claiming this law is no different than the flaccid ones passed in other states is a great talking point for fighting back the liberals, such an attitude will retard efforts to strengthen religious defense laws in other states with the new provisions in the Indiana law.
Indiana has taken the lead. Indiana allows not just people but entire businesses to be protected. It removes the ability of gay employees to sue over discrimination. It gives us the tools we need to grind gays into dust and force them out of the state. This is a righteous, just law that will benefit Indiana and drive perverts of all stripes away. It provides the legal framework to strip homosexuals of all their recourse within the state, something NO other state's laws offer.
Stop claiming the Indiana law is "just like" the ones in other states. Instead petition your state governments to add Indiana's better protections to their own laws.
In the next few months the Supreme Court of the United States is likely to rule that there is no Constitutional justification for denying law-abiding Gay couples the same opportunity to marry that Straight couples have always taken for granted.
So NOW the opponents of marriage equality are taking their revenge in a pro-active way, so that business owners who are against marriage equality can discriminate against Gay couples even if they are legally eligible to marry. Social and religious conservatives are nothing if not vindictive.
But a business is not a church. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about a bakery or a restaurant, a photo studio or a factory. They aren't in the business of providing spiritual guidance or enforcing moral doctrines. They are there to turn a profit. As such, they are obligated to abide by prevailing civil rights laws, whether those laws protect people from discrimination based on race, religion, or sexual orientation.
Conservative columnist Erick Erickson came to the defense of Christian business owners: "Committed Christians believe in a doctrine of vocation. They believe that their work is a form of ministry. Through their work, they can share the gospel and glorify God."
Oh, and also rake in as much money as possible. You can wax poetic all you want about "glorifying God," but at the end of the day these businesses wouldn't exist were it not for the profit motive.
Should a restaurant owner be able to refuse service to Blacks because he has "moral objections" to race-mixing? Should an employer be able to fire a Muslim employee because he wants to run "a nice Christian workplace"? And if a Christian florist agrees to provide flower arrangements at a Muslim couple's wedding, does it mean he is necessarily endorsing Islam?
If the answer to these questions is NO, what justification is there refusing service to a Gay couple who wish to get a wedding cake or celebrate their anniversary in a restaurant?
These comments are really sad. The intent of the law is not to discriminate, nor to protect those who do. 19 states have already passed one like it, as did the federal government as the nation's law several years ago. To date, all of the objections brought to the courts by a "religious" person under these laws have been rejected by the courts. Isn't this the way it's supposed to work ... giving the objector a chance in court to prove his or her point ? So why the big fever, and attacking this as Republicans wedded to "hate" ? Seems to me it's more of the same ... those claiming diversity as the champion aren't very good at being fair about someone diverse from them ! And by the way ... I have rebuffed authority when it pushed for me to make a decision contrary to my strongest religious beliefs on the job. That's also a part of this country's foundation. Quit banging away at it without reason or just cause !
Did Spence stop and think how many jobs he would scare away by signing this abhorrent law? He's a sad excuse for a governor if you ask me.
Has anyone asked the Republicans in that state what the "problem" was that spurred action on SB101?
Truthfully, I Cannot wait until the Muslims and/or Orthodox Jews and/or Buddhists and/or Zoroastrians and/or Hindus and/or Sikhs living in Indiana -- who will soon (effective 01 July 15) have the right to legally discriminate against the Christians in the state -- start doing so. Can't you just hear the Christians, "Persecution!" the first time the law is used against them. Let the fun begin.
I am sort of glad that this has happened and people around the country and world are seeing how hateful the Republican party is toward gay taxpaying citizens. There are several of these same bills in other states waiting to be passed and signed, all with Republican governors and majorities.
RFRA is totally directed at the gay community and Pence knows it. He was asked 6 times yesterday on This Week if gays and lesbians would be discriminated against with RFRA and he would not answer.
Tell your family and friends, gay or straight, Republican or Democrats, about this calamity so they too can see just how hateful some Americans are toward other Americans.
I would hate so see what would happen if we had a Republican president to appease these type of Xtians.
I feel sorry for the mostly good people of Indiana, whose already troubled economy will suffer because of this stupid law. Not sorry enough to break the boycott, though. Suggestion: recall this nutcase Pence before he does any further damage to your well-being. Looks like he didn't even take office with a majority so the votes should be there.
What governor Pence did is inexcusable, Hoosiers need jobs not bills that would allow discrimination against tax paying citizens. I can not believe that these types of laws are even allowed to be enacted in our state in 2015. This state has been in a downward spiral since Mike Pence took office.
Shame on governor Pence for promoting discrimination and putting Indiana's economic future in jeopardy. Every human being has a right to feel safe in his own community and what Mike Pence did can only be compared to laws enacted in non democratic societies. Indiana we deserve better than Mike Pence.
Fools flaunting their fear & ignorance deserve the intense back lash This State is beginning to feel. This will intensify as long as necessary. What religion teaches people to hate a certain minority! Christianity leads the list with the hypocritical "Love thy neighbor", only when he/she is exactly like me! Time to grow up Indiana! Hate is NOT a FAMILY VALUE!!
he /is lisat p ax
Creative activists have already used this bill for non-LGBT purposes, such as the Church of Cannabis (suggested donation - $4.20.) I hope even more activists explore the non-LGBT unintended consequences of this bill, and leave the hater-legislators (and the governor) scrambling to enact legislation that says 'No, the bill does not specifically cover drug use/polyamory/racial discrimination/etc.' Eventually, all that will be left is animus towards LGBT, and the law will be struck down as unconstitutional.
There is not now nor has there ever been any mischaracterization or misunderstanding of the origin of this bill. Fundamentalists and bigots in the Indiana Legislature are angry that they could not stop gay marriage. So, by God, they will punish gays in Indiana with a bill that will sanction outright discrimination in all manner of public accommodations. Nobody is fooled by this and now, the chickens have come home to roost. Indiana is in trouble; its citizens outraged and the rest of the nation in disbelief. Governor Pence has some serious back pedaling to do or it's going to get uglier.
at the governors behind doors signing: Micah Clark- believes being gay is a treatable disorder and he publicly rallied against a lesbian high schooler over a prom tux. Curtis Smith who equates being gay with beastiality and adultery, He helped write the bill. Eric Miller who distributed a fear mongering flier falsely claiming pastors could be jailed for preaching against homosexuality. Mike Pence voted against the repeal of Don't ask don't tell.
Lots of anti gay hate in a small group. Don't try and tell me this is not an anti gay bill
Wow. Can't wait until the Muslims (and Orthodox Jews and Buddhists and Zoroastrians and Hindus and Sikhs I think you get the point) living in Indiana who now have the right to legally discriminate against the Christians in the state start doing so. Though I suppose the Christians will be yelling, "Persecution!" the first time the law is used against them. Let the chaos begin. :-P
Using God to justify discrimination is morally reprehensible.
The RFRA is state sponsored discrimination , pure and simple.