Seems like Baltimorians don't understand the costs involved. Unless they want to fund it themselves...go out and do fund raisers. Or the state can say yes sure and we'll be good "democrats" and tax the hell out of all of us. You don't spend what you don't have people...smarten up. Why do you think all the crap in the stores is from CHINA....we are a over inflated country. We will never be the country we once were. Then Baltimore residents have a very short memory Shelia Dickson for mayor...she stole gift certificates that were suppose to be used towards the poor children in Baltimore.
3/18/2010BALTIMORE — Baltimore's mayor was convicted Tuesday on a single charge of taking gift cards from a program intended for the city's poor children and using them to buy electronics, including an Xbox video game system. But, crime is a way of life to many there.
Stupidity is ramp-id in Baltimore
You - 9 years ago
Edd: well aware this is Baltimore, I've lived here my whole life. I don't see why we shouldn't be comparing ourselves to the other great cities in this country. I think we have the potential to be a great city, though we continue to distance ourselves from those leading cities the longer we go without fixing our mass transit capabilities. Would you prefer I use Portland, Denver, Seattle, Philadelphia, or San Jose as better examples of cities that prioritize and make mass transit work? There is no reason we should not be comparing ourselves with those cities, right?
I don't know all the details of the Canton group's opposition, but I think I understand it was centered around the Boston Street route. I don't remember much particular outcry from you all over the price tag. As I said earlier, I agree that was not the best route to take. A more northerly route would have been my preference. I guess now you'll get to look out on to a big traffic jam all day. Score one for you!
Vinny - 9 years ago
Thank you Larry !!!!!!! Get well soon.
Edd - 9 years ago
Can someone please tell "You" that this is Baltimore and not NYC, San Francisco, Chicago, etc. As a Canton resident facing Boston street, our HOA was the original opposition group when this nonsense started some time ago. I remember how they forecasted ridership and when that proved to be too low, they changed it and magically beefed up the numbers to make it financially viable. Let's take that money and fix our roads and bridges which is Larry's plan. Good luck Larry, you've quite a mess to clean up.
Rand - 9 years ago
How about saying Should Gov Hogan refuse $900 million from your federal taxes to build something that will increase your Maryland state income taxes?
My name - 9 years ago
Way to word the question to get the answer you want Sun. Your implication is that Governor Hogan is leaving Federal money on the table and he would get it for free if he were to do the project. What you leave out is the cost to Maryland tax payers that he isn't incurring by killing the light rail line.
Juliana - 9 years ago
Kudos to #HoganStrong, he is doing exactly what we voted him in to do. This not a matter of Democrat or Republican, rather it is the fact that finally we have a governor who brings fiscal responsibility to the table and save the people of this state from paying high taxes that are wasted in pork projects that do not bring any income to the state's purse. Even though some people in their comment attribute the rail line as an investment for the future; yet an investment should be done in a proper way that is cost effective and brings returns. The rail line in it's present format will cost the state double of more than when it currently anticipate.
Stanley Carter - 9 years ago
The existing two light rails and subway system has not helped better Baltimore, so why should we expect
another "pork" project be any different.
And would the taxpayers be supporting it's operation as they are with current mass transit projects ?
Mike Bartell - 9 years ago
I will keep this short as it is somewhat redundant. First, shame on the person writing the poll and blatantly attempting to steer the answer. However, it looks like Marylanders are wising up to the wasteful overspending liberals that have plagued the well being of this great state.
Thank you Governor Hogan and keep up the honest work!
allan - 9 years ago
Could the red line have helped Baltimore? Yes. Could it have spurred new development? Yes. In the list of projects that need state funding was the red line project offering the best return on public investment? Not even close. Baltimore needs help. But the Red Line was not going to cure Baltimore's problems.
Wow, I was surprised there were so many yes votes. Coming after an article entitled "Derailed" and posing the question is such a presumptively negative way, I expected many to say No. If I knew nothing of our fiscal situation and was asked do you want to refuse $900M from the Fed I would say no. Biased poll question, substantial response for fiscal responsibility.
Mark - 9 years ago
Thank you Larry for doing what the voters voted you in for. If we wanted more wasted money on useless projects we would have voted for Brown being he really knew how to waste money (like for a health care exchange that apparently states don’t even need to have).
I’m tired of these publicly funded projects that become business of the state. We pay to build an inter county connector and guess what, it’s a toll road. We put up with construction for a decade on I-95 thru White Marsh and spend a ton of our money on it and guess what, you can only use the new lanes if you pay a toll. Don’t we already pay Fed, State, county, gas and sales taxes when we buy a car along with registration fees, etc, etc …. to pay for roads and their upkeep?
Then to add insult to injury they want to build a losing business (red line) with our money on a wing and prayer that if we build it the jobs will come. Like said, a bus line would cost pennies and if the busses are overflowing and the area is on its way then we should consider building a rail line. Busses are easy to move and use elsewhere. A rail line is not.
And I grew up in the city. IMHO where they want the red line they should just bulldoze and turn into open spaces. These areas are not Fells Point or Camden type areas. Even the people who live there don’t want to and having a rattling train come through for a few hours a day won’t ever change that. Just ask the people around the Cromwell stop in Glen Burnie.
Sherry - 9 years ago
I voted for and trust Governor Hogan explicitly. He is doing exactly what the majority of MD voters elected him to do. He is in our prayers and hopes for a complete recovery from his cancer. MD needs him and more politicians like him across our state and country.
Brendan Kelley - 9 years ago
Leaving federal funds on the table is not a reason to complete a project that doesn't make sense. We provide the federal funding too.
Dave - 9 years ago
Shocking. Another totally biased poll released by the sun. I wonder if they'll be adjusting the results on the back-end as they have done in the past...
Our governor did the correct thing in putting a stop to this project. If you think this would have only cost the estimated $3 billion you're fooling yourself. With cost overruns, who knows how much it would have ended up costing. The fact that it doesn't even connect with existing public transit is what really did it in. Given the fact that the current mass transit systems aren't even close to sustainable, why on earth should we finance another $3+ billion project. It was a politically driven pipe-dream from the start, and we are lucky to have a fiscally responsible Governor in place to kill it.
Hey - 9 years ago
Interesting that the poll question keeps changing but it's the same poll. What's up with THAT, Baltimore Sun??
Patrick - 9 years ago
This was a very bias way to post a poll question from the Baltimore Sun adding the statement at the end 'potential $900 million in federal funding on the table'! First, this shows the bias the Baltimore Sun has against the Gov. Hogan administration. Second, note the word 'potential' in that sentence. The Federal Highway Transportation Trust Fund has been encountering serious shortfalls that are only going to continue for years. The word they should have used was 'unlikely'. This money is not guaranteed and will most likely not be available at all.
This was not an easy decision to make but fiscally responsible people and politicians have to make these hard decisions every day. Thank you Larry for finally adding some economic common sense to Maryland.
You - 9 years ago
Owings Mills Mall still required travelers to take a bus after they got off the Metro, so it wasn't directly accessable. Major flaw. The mall had many other issues and is now unfortunately an "investment property" for a major REIT after it was purchased at a significant discount due to the financial crisis. I'm sure the county is not happy about its status.
However, Metro Centre at Owings Mills is a perfect example of how mass transit is spuring economic development. Retail, office, and residential built all on the Metro. This is what we could have around the Red Line routes.
Phil - 9 years ago
I agree with above comment "Each stop has become a target for robbery, rape , murder. and gang gatherings. and lets not forget it only runs on restricted hours after 10:00 P.M. riders are on their own and still have to get a bus or cab."
Bob - 9 years ago
What a shame. Look how the subway benefitted Owings Mills Mall. Oh, wait a minute.
you - 9 years ago
Jon Ward is 100% correct. This is an investment in the future. Though terribly needed now, this will benefit generations to come. It will lead to easier/cheaper movement around the city for its residents, and draw people back into the City. Migration back into cities is the trend among Millennials, studies show. And Millennials are moving here at some of the fastest rates in the country. We are doing a good job creating housing for them, but are significantly lagging in adequate transportation. This would be a huge step forward, though I agree with Jon Ward that the Boston Street route is not the most sensical. In terms of cost, $2.9b. The Feds would put up $900m. Would all this be paid back in one year of ridership, of course not. Just like a bridge or tunnel is not paid back in one year. But it would be revenue generating, which highways are not (unless we put tolls on them, which thankfully the Gov is opposed to.)
As for the comment that one is delusional if they think weathly people use mass transit. That statement is delusional! DC, NYC, San Fransicso, Boston. Four of the wealthiest cities in the US, and the world, all have very successful mass transit. I can't believe I even I have to explain this. Michael Bloomberg, billionaire Michael Bloomberg, rides the NY subway to work each day. Millions of people in NY (I mean wealthy people!) use the subway each day. The same goes for DC. Who drives in DC? Of all the people I know that work in DC, the only people that drive use a carpool. And I am in no means loaded, but my income is in the top 10% of the US population. I use mass transit all the time! I 'm even a Republican! I know many of my colleagues that use mass transit. There are neighborhoods in Baltimore that have a significant shortage of parking, so the use of a car is an inconvenient and expensive. Mass transit is the best way to travel (other than a bike maybe, but we don't have that infrastructure in the City either).
Lastly, comparing the current Light Rail's problems with the Red Line doesn't make sense. The current Light Rail's main purpose is to move people into the city to work and then out of the city to live. Look at where the stops are. It doesn't make sense for many Baltimoreans to use the Light Rail for the most part. It typically takes people to parking lots in the county, not to job centers. Collecting rider fees is a big issue, something that should be dealt with regardless if the idea of the Red Line existed or not. It is true that few poeple actually pay, the MTA must address that. The Metro is a better example. Look at Owings Mills, a major new development has been built specifically at Metro station so people can live next to the Metro. What we need is more retail and shopping near the Metro stations so people can efficiently run errands and live everyday life by using the system. The Red Line is would implement these benefits. It would move Baltimoreans around the CITY. It would not move people out of the city like the Light Rail does. It would also connect Baltimoreans to retail centers in the CITY (see Canton Crossing). It would also connect them to job centers around the CITY (see Johns Hopkins, SSA, and downtown). It would also spur development in West and East Baltimore around the stations, and benefit an already developing residential presense downtown.
Again, is it perfect? No. But is it necesarry? Absolutely. This is crushing for Baltimore and the State. The State will now have to continue to pour more money into Baltimore to deal with the poverty and to start anew on fixing the transportation issue. Will the Red Line solve all the City's problems, no. But it will start progress and momentum. Without a start nothing happens!
Dick Sossi - 9 years ago
I'm always amazed that people think that federal funds are free money from Mars or somewhere...it's OUR tax dollars. Maryland leaders always complain that we are one of the only states that has to support two mass transit systems. Couple that with a fare box retrieval that went from 50% to 40% to no requirement at all!
Yet our legislative leaders continue to throw our transportation dollars down the " mass transit" rat hole. Kudos to Gov Larry Hogan.
Anita Smith - 9 years ago
There are many other uses for this money in the State of Maryland. The Eastern Shore has NO public transportation nor does Western Maryland. We need to be considering those under-served populations rather than pouring money into the bottomless pit of Baltimore.
Matt - 9 years ago
Governor Hogan was absolutely right to kill this project. Only disappointed that Purple Line didn't share this fate. Larry Hogan has already established himself as possibly the best Governor Maryland has had in 50 years...and he's only been in office 5 months. When is the Sun going to get the memo?
Brian Ropp - 9 years ago
We can only guess how the results would look if the Sun had asked the question in a more neutral way.
Daze and Confused - 9 years ago
The Baltimore Sun paper is only good for 2 things: wrapping up fish and using it to pick crabs.
Rob - 9 years ago
This poll is laughably worded. Now I remember why I only use the Baltimore Sun for sports.
Jon Ward - 9 years ago
My father was an architect with vast knowledge. He used to say, "Big projects are built for the future; not for the present". This fits the question of the construction of the red line. We will need it for our future much more so than our present. By the time construction would end and the line would be usable, it would provide some of the transportation needs our metro will have. Having said that, I have always disagreed with the east side path of the line. It should be extended along Fayette Street or Eastern Avenue rather than Boston Street. I repeatedly asked this question at red line meetings and never got an adequate response.
RT - 9 years ago
Hogan did exactly what he campained on during the election. Baltimore City is in decline and has been in decline since the 50s. Im sorry bit no one with money uses mass transit. If you believe that your delusional. Building a 2 1/2 rail line does not magically make businesses appear. There are plenty of ways to get around the city if need be. I personally rather drive. I almost never use mass transit and cant even tell you the last time i did. If you dont work or live in the city you shouldnt even have an opinion on this either as it does not affect you atall. I drive Rt 100 every day and i see over passes crumbling under my car. I pray that one doesnt collapse under my car. Not to mention the hundreds of other bridges around tge state in much needed repair. Invest in the roads. BTW if it wasnt for the Dems raiding the transportation trust fund every year maybe just maybe we would have enough money saved up to build this horrinle idea called the red line. ALSO im sick of your bias Sun Paper stop pandering to the dems of this state and praising everything that they do and putting down everything a repub does. Its so obvious and now that Hogan has been gov. And doing logical decisions you and the dem party of maryland have looked like fools. What a slanted question. Stop being biased your doing more harm than good and are exactly what we dont need in a paper journalism if you can still call it that.
B - 9 years ago
Spend the money expanding the lanes of I270 from 2 to 3 lanes up towards Frederick. It makes no sense to have it as 2 lanes and traffic is horrible let no one talks about this. I think we need a reliable metro/non corrupt metro before we think about expanding it.
Thank you for killing the purple line deal, another waste of money backed by false ridership numbers and corruption.
Ricky - 9 years ago
as to what the current Baltimore lines carry.
The subway carries 51000 riders a week day.
The light rail carries 28000 riders a week day.
The red line was supposed to carry 54000 riders a week day in 2030, once the line would have been open for a few years and people had gotten use to it.
Average weekend days are much lower, even when there is a large sporting event.
Ricky - 9 years ago
A lot of people seem to be confused with the price. If constructed it would cost 2.9 Billion. The feds had kicked in 900 million.
Thus to us, the state, city, county would have cost us 2 Billion, not 3.
Also that money that we left on the table is not going back into our pockets. It is not going to reduce the federal deficit. It will go to another New Starts Grant somewhere in the country. From the looks of it, probably Los Angeles, as they are currently building so many and do not get much federal money. So our tax dollars, well our federal tax dollars, will go to fund something in California. The development that could have been brought to Baltimore will instead go to LA.
That doesn't mean it made sense to build the Red line, but distorting the facts serves no one in the end.
Bill Vaughan - 9 years ago
Mr. Hogan made another good call by killing a major transit project in Baltimore, the Red Line, which never made transportation or financial sense." - Washington Post
Lindsay - 9 years ago
What a horribly worded question. You are so slanted Sun. You should be ashamed.
Nathan Brown - 9 years ago
Why isn't the poll question more neutrally worded to something to the effect of: "Do you support Governor Hogan's decision to stop the construction of the proposed Red Light Rail Line through Baltimore City?"
Teresa - 9 years ago
Has the light rail done much in the way of helping people find jobs? Use that as an example. When I ride out 795 in the early morning or around 6 pm, those trains are pretty empty. What is the ridership on the existing light rail and subway (without including the folks going to O's and Ravens' games)? How many of the riders pay? If the Red Line were coming along Baltimore Street it would have made more sense. Barbara Mikulski fought this tooth and nail when she was young and made her political reputation. This is the same bad idea 50 years later.
Nunya Bidness - 9 years ago
Even if there is $900M of Federal money available, it does not make financial sense to spend $3B to get it.
Lin - 9 years ago
What a lie! There is no Federal Funding!
Gregg - 9 years ago
Think we could wait a bit before this comes online. Let's use the money for REAL needs in the state first... Theres more to Md. than Mont. Cty, Balt. and Ann. Fix infrastucture, police force etc.
JD - 9 years ago
When mass transit fares don't even cover 30% of the cost to run the mass transit system why spend $3 BILLION more and make the system even more dependent on we taxpayers who never ride on the system!!
James P - 9 years ago
It was obvious the Red Line was never really being considered by O'Malley or Hogan precisely because of the high cost associated with the necessary tunneling and smaller ability to recap the financial costs through usage. Suggesting that putting a subway reduces crime is comical. If that were the case, then our friends to the south would have no crime in Anacostia, Minnesota Ave, etc.
DJ - 9 years ago
The poll question does not reflect the whole truth. Yes, Maryland is leaving $900 million dollars of federal money on the table. However, it would have cost the city and the state around $3.0 billions. Money that neither have. Most assuredly, there would be cost over runs. Finally, a leader that understands finance and respects the tax payers in this state.
You - 9 years ago
I fear there are a lot of misinformed people forming opionions of this project that have no idea what they are talking about and might not understand Baltimore at all. Mass transit like the Red Line is not only for poor people and it is not designed simply to move poor people in the city to jobs in the wealthy counties. It is designed for people of all incomes to move around a major urban center for jobs, commerce, education, and entertainment, among other things. This specific project would connect folks in east Baltimore to downtown and the west side where institutions like the SSA are located. It would connect folks on the west side to downtown and the east side where instititions like Johns Hopkins are. It would connect people in Downtown to both the east and west side. It would connect residents of Fells Point and Canton to employment centers downtown. For mass transit to work it must be efficient. Baltimore currently doesn't have effecient mass transit. The roads were not built for the growing amount of vehicles that are trying to use them, and there is no room to enlarge the roads. Rail transportation, as is proven in probably ever other major city in the world, is vital for urban transporation needs. The killing of the Red Line is a major blow to Baltimore and the entire state. We will have to find a new solution to Baltimore's transportation issue, and now we have committed another decade to finding that solution as opposed to building it. Was the Red Line perfect? No. But it was a start. NYC did not build their subway overnight, and it is still not perfect. But it is essential for the city to operate. Baltimore, the State, and its residents are being restricted because of this.
Russell: Your statement probably makes you look more ignorant in my eyes than these people in West Baltimore look to yours.
Matthew: It is not a Baltimore City problem, it is a state problem. MTA, stands for Maryland Transportation Authority. They run the City buses, along with much of the mass transit in the state. The bus system is terrible here. The City needs better and more resources. 1% of the country's GDP comes from Baltimore, we don't have the transportation infrastructure to properly serve a city of this size and strategic importantance.
Kurt: I don't want to question your education. But one millionth of $3b is $3,000. If you are running a bus service at these costs I'm sure the City would like to hear from you. Additionally, where are you getting your information about the people of West Baltimore? You are very much wrong about everything except maybe they don't have an education, which is not totally their fault. They would much rather be working and have opportunties like most the rest of the state than be dependent on government. They simply don't have a chance. And who are all these people saying they want jobs in Hunt Valley? They need to get to places like Hopkins, Downtown, East Baltimore, and yes some suburbs.
Phil: $190m from the Feds? Where is this coming from? Its more like $900m. Your opposition to the Red Line seems to be that all the jobs these people would be going to are in Downtown. Quite the contrary. And what about thinking about it this way: thousands of apartments are being developed downtown, what if there was efficient transportation to get people to jobs out of downtown, think that might attract high income residents to the center of the city? Its not only poor people that use public transportation.
Tim - 9 years ago
Worst written poll question ever, If you are going to quote how much Federal funding was left on the table then you have to quote how much tax payer money was saved as well. So we didn't spend $900 Million and we saved $3 Billion. Any fool should be able to make the correct choice when provided with the correct information.
Russell - 9 years ago
Thank you Mr. Hogan for not tying in the cesspool called West Baltimore to the rest of the light rail. If anything we should be building fences not increasing the reach of that decrepit place.
Matthew - 9 years ago
Sorry, but the issue is not the State's issue, it is a Baltimore City government issue. There already is mass transit capability (BUSES) that can serve the need rather than BUILDING yet another rail line, at taxpayers expense..and if it fails...the tax payers will be bailing it out. There is a better solution. Good for you Hogan.
Kurt Willem - 9 years ago
Everyone who is in favor of the East-West rail line talks of people in West Balto getting to jobs in Hunt Valley,Owings Mills, etc. The people in West Balto. don't have jobs because they don't have a education, a work ethic or a desire to work 40-50 hrs a week. For a millionth of the cost of another light rail line the city could run 3 or 4 dedicated bus lines to these areas 24/7. Also many speak of federal funds like its some giant free gift. Hey folks, its all taxpayer money, yours and mine. I say good move Gov. Hogan.
Jerry Golabowski - 9 years ago
Yes, Baltimore seriously needs effective mass transportation; but one more rail line that does not connect to the two existing lines is not much help. I agree with the Governor that the red line, as designed, is not the answer. For now, money is better spent on improving the bus system.
I am a great fan is mass transit, having used subways in DC, New York, London, Barcelona, and Athens. I have ridden trains in South Korea, Japan, Italy, Spain and England. They all had wonderful service. However, those systems were built to connect people with existing jobs. The red line design seems to assume that if it is built, jobs will magically appear along the route. Baltimore needs to do a lot more than improve transportation before they can attract the number of jobs needed to solve the blight of unemployment caused by decades of mis management by the city government.
Burt - 9 years ago
Hogan clearly did not review the project or did not value the mountains of research that indicates the Red Line would be a huge benefit. He also ignored the research that shows his current paving plan is had a negative net benefit.
He is catering to his electorate and giving in to his bias.
Phil - 9 years ago
All of the people for the Red Line talk of generating jobs, housing, and economic development, but how? By moving people from West Baltimore to Greek Town? Don't the busses still run? The current Light Rail System supports non-paying users and is losing money. Any attempt to collect the fair by someone in charge has resulted in chaos and gang intimidation. Each stop has become a target for robbery, rape , murder. and gang gatherings. and lets not forget it only runs on restricted hours after 10:00 P.M. riders are on their own and still have to get a bus or cab. The big losers in the Red Line project would be the business owners who will lose tons of money during the construction phase. Get the maps out people, it's only 2 !/2 miles from Edmondson Village to the center of Downtown Charles Street. The only people who will benefit by creating the Red Line are the politicians who have had their friends and relatives buying up cheap and discarded property along the routes to make a financial windfall profit. This is a 3 billion dollar project and the Federal Government has only committed to 190 million. the rest will be charged back to the tax payers of this State. Wake up supporters!
Phil - 9 years ago
All of the people for the Red Line talk of generating jobs, housing, and economic development, but how? By moving people from West Baltimore to Greek Town? Don't the busses still run? The current Light Rail System supports non-paying users and is losing money. Any attempt to collect the fair by someone in charge has resulted in chaos and gang intimidation. Each stop has become a target for robbery, rape , murder. and gang gatherings. and lets not forget it only runs on restricted hours after 10:00 P.M. riders are on their own and still have to get a bus or cab. The big losers in the Red Line project would be the business owners who will lose tons of money during the construction phase. Get the maps out people, it's only 2 !/2 miles from Edmondson Village to the center of Downtown Charles Street. The only people who will benefit by creating the Red Line are the politicans who have had their friends and relatives buying up cheap and discarded property along the routes to make a finanical windfall profit. This is a 3 billion dollar project and the Federal Government has only comitted to 190 million. the rest will be charged back to the tax payers of this State. Wake up supporters!
James Churchill - 9 years ago
Stupid move. Will be a perfect catalyst to rebuild a dead area, create all level of jobs, revitalize manufacturing, rehab homes & business and create an exportable success to cities in similar straits.
Dwayne Henderson - 9 years ago
Reliable modern mass transit for a community that has been under served for decades is a must. Obviously those at the lower end of the economic spectrum would benefit the most, but their voices aren’t supported by lobbying dollars and political contributions. All citizens would benefit from fewer cars in an urban area and economic and housing opportunities surrounding proposed transit stations.
It strikes me as cruel and a failure of government that spent millions of dollars and 10 years of impact studies holding out false hopes of an improved transportation system linking East and West.
Wake Up Mr. Hogan. The major unrest that followed the Freddie Gray incident was a direct result of a frustrated community that lacks support on multiple levels. As Governor, you certainly don't need a civics lesson so don’t overlook a monumental opportunity. The Red Line could and would be the foundation for positive change and progress in Baltimore and the State of Maryland. Completing the project would remedy a huge transit issue. It would also generate jobs, housing, and economic development. It would also encourage disenfranchised voters to work with a Republican Governor who truly wants to create at better life for all Maryland residents.
Nicole - 9 years ago
I think there is a typo in the poll. Did he really only leave $900 on the table?
madoline madigan - 9 years ago
I am so glad to see Gov. Hogan using his head instead of his image to make a major decision.
Seems like Baltimorians don't understand the costs involved. Unless they want to fund it themselves...go out and do fund raisers. Or the state can say yes sure and we'll be good "democrats" and tax the hell out of all of us. You don't spend what you don't have people...smarten up. Why do you think all the crap in the stores is from CHINA....we are a over inflated country. We will never be the country we once were. Then Baltimore residents have a very short memory Shelia Dickson for mayor...she stole gift certificates that were suppose to be used towards the poor children in Baltimore.
3/18/2010BALTIMORE — Baltimore's mayor was convicted Tuesday on a single charge of taking gift cards from a program intended for the city's poor children and using them to buy electronics, including an Xbox video game system. But, crime is a way of life to many there.
Stupidity is ramp-id in Baltimore
Edd: well aware this is Baltimore, I've lived here my whole life. I don't see why we shouldn't be comparing ourselves to the other great cities in this country. I think we have the potential to be a great city, though we continue to distance ourselves from those leading cities the longer we go without fixing our mass transit capabilities. Would you prefer I use Portland, Denver, Seattle, Philadelphia, or San Jose as better examples of cities that prioritize and make mass transit work? There is no reason we should not be comparing ourselves with those cities, right?
I don't know all the details of the Canton group's opposition, but I think I understand it was centered around the Boston Street route. I don't remember much particular outcry from you all over the price tag. As I said earlier, I agree that was not the best route to take. A more northerly route would have been my preference. I guess now you'll get to look out on to a big traffic jam all day. Score one for you!
Thank you Larry !!!!!!! Get well soon.
Can someone please tell "You" that this is Baltimore and not NYC, San Francisco, Chicago, etc. As a Canton resident facing Boston street, our HOA was the original opposition group when this nonsense started some time ago. I remember how they forecasted ridership and when that proved to be too low, they changed it and magically beefed up the numbers to make it financially viable. Let's take that money and fix our roads and bridges which is Larry's plan. Good luck Larry, you've quite a mess to clean up.
How about saying Should Gov Hogan refuse $900 million from your federal taxes to build something that will increase your Maryland state income taxes?
Way to word the question to get the answer you want Sun. Your implication is that Governor Hogan is leaving Federal money on the table and he would get it for free if he were to do the project. What you leave out is the cost to Maryland tax payers that he isn't incurring by killing the light rail line.
Kudos to #HoganStrong, he is doing exactly what we voted him in to do. This not a matter of Democrat or Republican, rather it is the fact that finally we have a governor who brings fiscal responsibility to the table and save the people of this state from paying high taxes that are wasted in pork projects that do not bring any income to the state's purse. Even though some people in their comment attribute the rail line as an investment for the future; yet an investment should be done in a proper way that is cost effective and brings returns. The rail line in it's present format will cost the state double of more than when it currently anticipate.
The existing two light rails and subway system has not helped better Baltimore, so why should we expect
another "pork" project be any different.
And would the taxpayers be supporting it's operation as they are with current mass transit projects ?
I will keep this short as it is somewhat redundant. First, shame on the person writing the poll and blatantly attempting to steer the answer. However, it looks like Marylanders are wising up to the wasteful overspending liberals that have plagued the well being of this great state.
Thank you Governor Hogan and keep up the honest work!
Could the red line have helped Baltimore? Yes. Could it have spurred new development? Yes. In the list of projects that need state funding was the red line project offering the best return on public investment? Not even close. Baltimore needs help. But the Red Line was not going to cure Baltimore's problems.
Wow, I was surprised there were so many yes votes. Coming after an article entitled "Derailed" and posing the question is such a presumptively negative way, I expected many to say No. If I knew nothing of our fiscal situation and was asked do you want to refuse $900M from the Fed I would say no. Biased poll question, substantial response for fiscal responsibility.
Thank you Larry for doing what the voters voted you in for. If we wanted more wasted money on useless projects we would have voted for Brown being he really knew how to waste money (like for a health care exchange that apparently states don’t even need to have).
I’m tired of these publicly funded projects that become business of the state. We pay to build an inter county connector and guess what, it’s a toll road. We put up with construction for a decade on I-95 thru White Marsh and spend a ton of our money on it and guess what, you can only use the new lanes if you pay a toll. Don’t we already pay Fed, State, county, gas and sales taxes when we buy a car along with registration fees, etc, etc …. to pay for roads and their upkeep?
Then to add insult to injury they want to build a losing business (red line) with our money on a wing and prayer that if we build it the jobs will come. Like said, a bus line would cost pennies and if the busses are overflowing and the area is on its way then we should consider building a rail line. Busses are easy to move and use elsewhere. A rail line is not.
And I grew up in the city. IMHO where they want the red line they should just bulldoze and turn into open spaces. These areas are not Fells Point or Camden type areas. Even the people who live there don’t want to and having a rattling train come through for a few hours a day won’t ever change that. Just ask the people around the Cromwell stop in Glen Burnie.
I voted for and trust Governor Hogan explicitly. He is doing exactly what the majority of MD voters elected him to do. He is in our prayers and hopes for a complete recovery from his cancer. MD needs him and more politicians like him across our state and country.
Leaving federal funds on the table is not a reason to complete a project that doesn't make sense. We provide the federal funding too.
Shocking. Another totally biased poll released by the sun. I wonder if they'll be adjusting the results on the back-end as they have done in the past...
Our governor did the correct thing in putting a stop to this project. If you think this would have only cost the estimated $3 billion you're fooling yourself. With cost overruns, who knows how much it would have ended up costing. The fact that it doesn't even connect with existing public transit is what really did it in. Given the fact that the current mass transit systems aren't even close to sustainable, why on earth should we finance another $3+ billion project. It was a politically driven pipe-dream from the start, and we are lucky to have a fiscally responsible Governor in place to kill it.
Interesting that the poll question keeps changing but it's the same poll. What's up with THAT, Baltimore Sun??
This was a very bias way to post a poll question from the Baltimore Sun adding the statement at the end 'potential $900 million in federal funding on the table'! First, this shows the bias the Baltimore Sun has against the Gov. Hogan administration. Second, note the word 'potential' in that sentence. The Federal Highway Transportation Trust Fund has been encountering serious shortfalls that are only going to continue for years. The word they should have used was 'unlikely'. This money is not guaranteed and will most likely not be available at all.
This was not an easy decision to make but fiscally responsible people and politicians have to make these hard decisions every day. Thank you Larry for finally adding some economic common sense to Maryland.
Owings Mills Mall still required travelers to take a bus after they got off the Metro, so it wasn't directly accessable. Major flaw. The mall had many other issues and is now unfortunately an "investment property" for a major REIT after it was purchased at a significant discount due to the financial crisis. I'm sure the county is not happy about its status.
However, Metro Centre at Owings Mills is a perfect example of how mass transit is spuring economic development. Retail, office, and residential built all on the Metro. This is what we could have around the Red Line routes.
I agree with above comment "Each stop has become a target for robbery, rape , murder. and gang gatherings. and lets not forget it only runs on restricted hours after 10:00 P.M. riders are on their own and still have to get a bus or cab."
What a shame. Look how the subway benefitted Owings Mills Mall. Oh, wait a minute.
Jon Ward is 100% correct. This is an investment in the future. Though terribly needed now, this will benefit generations to come. It will lead to easier/cheaper movement around the city for its residents, and draw people back into the City. Migration back into cities is the trend among Millennials, studies show. And Millennials are moving here at some of the fastest rates in the country. We are doing a good job creating housing for them, but are significantly lagging in adequate transportation. This would be a huge step forward, though I agree with Jon Ward that the Boston Street route is not the most sensical. In terms of cost, $2.9b. The Feds would put up $900m. Would all this be paid back in one year of ridership, of course not. Just like a bridge or tunnel is not paid back in one year. But it would be revenue generating, which highways are not (unless we put tolls on them, which thankfully the Gov is opposed to.)
As for the comment that one is delusional if they think weathly people use mass transit. That statement is delusional! DC, NYC, San Fransicso, Boston. Four of the wealthiest cities in the US, and the world, all have very successful mass transit. I can't believe I even I have to explain this. Michael Bloomberg, billionaire Michael Bloomberg, rides the NY subway to work each day. Millions of people in NY (I mean wealthy people!) use the subway each day. The same goes for DC. Who drives in DC? Of all the people I know that work in DC, the only people that drive use a carpool. And I am in no means loaded, but my income is in the top 10% of the US population. I use mass transit all the time! I 'm even a Republican! I know many of my colleagues that use mass transit. There are neighborhoods in Baltimore that have a significant shortage of parking, so the use of a car is an inconvenient and expensive. Mass transit is the best way to travel (other than a bike maybe, but we don't have that infrastructure in the City either).
Lastly, comparing the current Light Rail's problems with the Red Line doesn't make sense. The current Light Rail's main purpose is to move people into the city to work and then out of the city to live. Look at where the stops are. It doesn't make sense for many Baltimoreans to use the Light Rail for the most part. It typically takes people to parking lots in the county, not to job centers. Collecting rider fees is a big issue, something that should be dealt with regardless if the idea of the Red Line existed or not. It is true that few poeple actually pay, the MTA must address that. The Metro is a better example. Look at Owings Mills, a major new development has been built specifically at Metro station so people can live next to the Metro. What we need is more retail and shopping near the Metro stations so people can efficiently run errands and live everyday life by using the system. The Red Line is would implement these benefits. It would move Baltimoreans around the CITY. It would not move people out of the city like the Light Rail does. It would also connect Baltimoreans to retail centers in the CITY (see Canton Crossing). It would also connect them to job centers around the CITY (see Johns Hopkins, SSA, and downtown). It would also spur development in West and East Baltimore around the stations, and benefit an already developing residential presense downtown.
Again, is it perfect? No. But is it necesarry? Absolutely. This is crushing for Baltimore and the State. The State will now have to continue to pour more money into Baltimore to deal with the poverty and to start anew on fixing the transportation issue. Will the Red Line solve all the City's problems, no. But it will start progress and momentum. Without a start nothing happens!
I'm always amazed that people think that federal funds are free money from Mars or somewhere...it's OUR tax dollars. Maryland leaders always complain that we are one of the only states that has to support two mass transit systems. Couple that with a fare box retrieval that went from 50% to 40% to no requirement at all!
Yet our legislative leaders continue to throw our transportation dollars down the " mass transit" rat hole. Kudos to Gov Larry Hogan.
There are many other uses for this money in the State of Maryland. The Eastern Shore has NO public transportation nor does Western Maryland. We need to be considering those under-served populations rather than pouring money into the bottomless pit of Baltimore.
Governor Hogan was absolutely right to kill this project. Only disappointed that Purple Line didn't share this fate. Larry Hogan has already established himself as possibly the best Governor Maryland has had in 50 years...and he's only been in office 5 months. When is the Sun going to get the memo?
We can only guess how the results would look if the Sun had asked the question in a more neutral way.
The Baltimore Sun paper is only good for 2 things: wrapping up fish and using it to pick crabs.
This poll is laughably worded. Now I remember why I only use the Baltimore Sun for sports.
My father was an architect with vast knowledge. He used to say, "Big projects are built for the future; not for the present". This fits the question of the construction of the red line. We will need it for our future much more so than our present. By the time construction would end and the line would be usable, it would provide some of the transportation needs our metro will have. Having said that, I have always disagreed with the east side path of the line. It should be extended along Fayette Street or Eastern Avenue rather than Boston Street. I repeatedly asked this question at red line meetings and never got an adequate response.
Hogan did exactly what he campained on during the election. Baltimore City is in decline and has been in decline since the 50s. Im sorry bit no one with money uses mass transit. If you believe that your delusional. Building a 2 1/2 rail line does not magically make businesses appear. There are plenty of ways to get around the city if need be. I personally rather drive. I almost never use mass transit and cant even tell you the last time i did. If you dont work or live in the city you shouldnt even have an opinion on this either as it does not affect you atall. I drive Rt 100 every day and i see over passes crumbling under my car. I pray that one doesnt collapse under my car. Not to mention the hundreds of other bridges around tge state in much needed repair. Invest in the roads. BTW if it wasnt for the Dems raiding the transportation trust fund every year maybe just maybe we would have enough money saved up to build this horrinle idea called the red line. ALSO im sick of your bias Sun Paper stop pandering to the dems of this state and praising everything that they do and putting down everything a repub does. Its so obvious and now that Hogan has been gov. And doing logical decisions you and the dem party of maryland have looked like fools. What a slanted question. Stop being biased your doing more harm than good and are exactly what we dont need in a paper journalism if you can still call it that.
Spend the money expanding the lanes of I270 from 2 to 3 lanes up towards Frederick. It makes no sense to have it as 2 lanes and traffic is horrible let no one talks about this. I think we need a reliable metro/non corrupt metro before we think about expanding it.
Thank you for killing the purple line deal, another waste of money backed by false ridership numbers and corruption.
as to what the current Baltimore lines carry.
The subway carries 51000 riders a week day.
The light rail carries 28000 riders a week day.
The red line was supposed to carry 54000 riders a week day in 2030, once the line would have been open for a few years and people had gotten use to it.
Average weekend days are much lower, even when there is a large sporting event.
A lot of people seem to be confused with the price. If constructed it would cost 2.9 Billion. The feds had kicked in 900 million.
Thus to us, the state, city, county would have cost us 2 Billion, not 3.
Also that money that we left on the table is not going back into our pockets. It is not going to reduce the federal deficit. It will go to another New Starts Grant somewhere in the country. From the looks of it, probably Los Angeles, as they are currently building so many and do not get much federal money. So our tax dollars, well our federal tax dollars, will go to fund something in California. The development that could have been brought to Baltimore will instead go to LA.
That doesn't mean it made sense to build the Red line, but distorting the facts serves no one in the end.
Mr. Hogan made another good call by killing a major transit project in Baltimore, the Red Line, which never made transportation or financial sense." - Washington Post
What a horribly worded question. You are so slanted Sun. You should be ashamed.
Why isn't the poll question more neutrally worded to something to the effect of: "Do you support Governor Hogan's decision to stop the construction of the proposed Red Light Rail Line through Baltimore City?"
Has the light rail done much in the way of helping people find jobs? Use that as an example. When I ride out 795 in the early morning or around 6 pm, those trains are pretty empty. What is the ridership on the existing light rail and subway (without including the folks going to O's and Ravens' games)? How many of the riders pay? If the Red Line were coming along Baltimore Street it would have made more sense. Barbara Mikulski fought this tooth and nail when she was young and made her political reputation. This is the same bad idea 50 years later.
Even if there is $900M of Federal money available, it does not make financial sense to spend $3B to get it.
What a lie! There is no Federal Funding!
Think we could wait a bit before this comes online. Let's use the money for REAL needs in the state first... Theres more to Md. than Mont. Cty, Balt. and Ann. Fix infrastucture, police force etc.
When mass transit fares don't even cover 30% of the cost to run the mass transit system why spend $3 BILLION more and make the system even more dependent on we taxpayers who never ride on the system!!
It was obvious the Red Line was never really being considered by O'Malley or Hogan precisely because of the high cost associated with the necessary tunneling and smaller ability to recap the financial costs through usage. Suggesting that putting a subway reduces crime is comical. If that were the case, then our friends to the south would have no crime in Anacostia, Minnesota Ave, etc.
The poll question does not reflect the whole truth. Yes, Maryland is leaving $900 million dollars of federal money on the table. However, it would have cost the city and the state around $3.0 billions. Money that neither have. Most assuredly, there would be cost over runs. Finally, a leader that understands finance and respects the tax payers in this state.
I fear there are a lot of misinformed people forming opionions of this project that have no idea what they are talking about and might not understand Baltimore at all. Mass transit like the Red Line is not only for poor people and it is not designed simply to move poor people in the city to jobs in the wealthy counties. It is designed for people of all incomes to move around a major urban center for jobs, commerce, education, and entertainment, among other things. This specific project would connect folks in east Baltimore to downtown and the west side where institutions like the SSA are located. It would connect folks on the west side to downtown and the east side where instititions like Johns Hopkins are. It would connect people in Downtown to both the east and west side. It would connect residents of Fells Point and Canton to employment centers downtown. For mass transit to work it must be efficient. Baltimore currently doesn't have effecient mass transit. The roads were not built for the growing amount of vehicles that are trying to use them, and there is no room to enlarge the roads. Rail transportation, as is proven in probably ever other major city in the world, is vital for urban transporation needs. The killing of the Red Line is a major blow to Baltimore and the entire state. We will have to find a new solution to Baltimore's transportation issue, and now we have committed another decade to finding that solution as opposed to building it. Was the Red Line perfect? No. But it was a start. NYC did not build their subway overnight, and it is still not perfect. But it is essential for the city to operate. Baltimore, the State, and its residents are being restricted because of this.
Russell: Your statement probably makes you look more ignorant in my eyes than these people in West Baltimore look to yours.
Matthew: It is not a Baltimore City problem, it is a state problem. MTA, stands for Maryland Transportation Authority. They run the City buses, along with much of the mass transit in the state. The bus system is terrible here. The City needs better and more resources. 1% of the country's GDP comes from Baltimore, we don't have the transportation infrastructure to properly serve a city of this size and strategic importantance.
Kurt: I don't want to question your education. But one millionth of $3b is $3,000. If you are running a bus service at these costs I'm sure the City would like to hear from you. Additionally, where are you getting your information about the people of West Baltimore? You are very much wrong about everything except maybe they don't have an education, which is not totally their fault. They would much rather be working and have opportunties like most the rest of the state than be dependent on government. They simply don't have a chance. And who are all these people saying they want jobs in Hunt Valley? They need to get to places like Hopkins, Downtown, East Baltimore, and yes some suburbs.
Phil: $190m from the Feds? Where is this coming from? Its more like $900m. Your opposition to the Red Line seems to be that all the jobs these people would be going to are in Downtown. Quite the contrary. And what about thinking about it this way: thousands of apartments are being developed downtown, what if there was efficient transportation to get people to jobs out of downtown, think that might attract high income residents to the center of the city? Its not only poor people that use public transportation.
Worst written poll question ever, If you are going to quote how much Federal funding was left on the table then you have to quote how much tax payer money was saved as well. So we didn't spend $900 Million and we saved $3 Billion. Any fool should be able to make the correct choice when provided with the correct information.
Thank you Mr. Hogan for not tying in the cesspool called West Baltimore to the rest of the light rail. If anything we should be building fences not increasing the reach of that decrepit place.
Sorry, but the issue is not the State's issue, it is a Baltimore City government issue. There already is mass transit capability (BUSES) that can serve the need rather than BUILDING yet another rail line, at taxpayers expense..and if it fails...the tax payers will be bailing it out. There is a better solution. Good for you Hogan.
Everyone who is in favor of the East-West rail line talks of people in West Balto getting to jobs in Hunt Valley,Owings Mills, etc. The people in West Balto. don't have jobs because they don't have a education, a work ethic or a desire to work 40-50 hrs a week. For a millionth of the cost of another light rail line the city could run 3 or 4 dedicated bus lines to these areas 24/7. Also many speak of federal funds like its some giant free gift. Hey folks, its all taxpayer money, yours and mine. I say good move Gov. Hogan.
Yes, Baltimore seriously needs effective mass transportation; but one more rail line that does not connect to the two existing lines is not much help. I agree with the Governor that the red line, as designed, is not the answer. For now, money is better spent on improving the bus system.
I am a great fan is mass transit, having used subways in DC, New York, London, Barcelona, and Athens. I have ridden trains in South Korea, Japan, Italy, Spain and England. They all had wonderful service. However, those systems were built to connect people with existing jobs. The red line design seems to assume that if it is built, jobs will magically appear along the route. Baltimore needs to do a lot more than improve transportation before they can attract the number of jobs needed to solve the blight of unemployment caused by decades of mis management by the city government.
Hogan clearly did not review the project or did not value the mountains of research that indicates the Red Line would be a huge benefit. He also ignored the research that shows his current paving plan is had a negative net benefit.
He is catering to his electorate and giving in to his bias.
All of the people for the Red Line talk of generating jobs, housing, and economic development, but how? By moving people from West Baltimore to Greek Town? Don't the busses still run? The current Light Rail System supports non-paying users and is losing money. Any attempt to collect the fair by someone in charge has resulted in chaos and gang intimidation. Each stop has become a target for robbery, rape , murder. and gang gatherings. and lets not forget it only runs on restricted hours after 10:00 P.M. riders are on their own and still have to get a bus or cab. The big losers in the Red Line project would be the business owners who will lose tons of money during the construction phase. Get the maps out people, it's only 2 !/2 miles from Edmondson Village to the center of Downtown Charles Street. The only people who will benefit by creating the Red Line are the politicians who have had their friends and relatives buying up cheap and discarded property along the routes to make a financial windfall profit. This is a 3 billion dollar project and the Federal Government has only committed to 190 million. the rest will be charged back to the tax payers of this State. Wake up supporters!
All of the people for the Red Line talk of generating jobs, housing, and economic development, but how? By moving people from West Baltimore to Greek Town? Don't the busses still run? The current Light Rail System supports non-paying users and is losing money. Any attempt to collect the fair by someone in charge has resulted in chaos and gang intimidation. Each stop has become a target for robbery, rape , murder. and gang gatherings. and lets not forget it only runs on restricted hours after 10:00 P.M. riders are on their own and still have to get a bus or cab. The big losers in the Red Line project would be the business owners who will lose tons of money during the construction phase. Get the maps out people, it's only 2 !/2 miles from Edmondson Village to the center of Downtown Charles Street. The only people who will benefit by creating the Red Line are the politicans who have had their friends and relatives buying up cheap and discarded property along the routes to make a finanical windfall profit. This is a 3 billion dollar project and the Federal Government has only comitted to 190 million. the rest will be charged back to the tax payers of this State. Wake up supporters!
Stupid move. Will be a perfect catalyst to rebuild a dead area, create all level of jobs, revitalize manufacturing, rehab homes & business and create an exportable success to cities in similar straits.
Reliable modern mass transit for a community that has been under served for decades is a must. Obviously those at the lower end of the economic spectrum would benefit the most, but their voices aren’t supported by lobbying dollars and political contributions. All citizens would benefit from fewer cars in an urban area and economic and housing opportunities surrounding proposed transit stations.
It strikes me as cruel and a failure of government that spent millions of dollars and 10 years of impact studies holding out false hopes of an improved transportation system linking East and West.
Wake Up Mr. Hogan. The major unrest that followed the Freddie Gray incident was a direct result of a frustrated community that lacks support on multiple levels. As Governor, you certainly don't need a civics lesson so don’t overlook a monumental opportunity. The Red Line could and would be the foundation for positive change and progress in Baltimore and the State of Maryland. Completing the project would remedy a huge transit issue. It would also generate jobs, housing, and economic development. It would also encourage disenfranchised voters to work with a Republican Governor who truly wants to create at better life for all Maryland residents.
I think there is a typo in the poll. Did he really only leave $900 on the table?
I am so glad to see Gov. Hogan using his head instead of his image to make a major decision.