ask this question:
WHY did the worlds greatest military power FAIL to defend even its own HQ?
and the Commander in Chief could be found sitting in a photo-op after being told "AMERICA is under attack"
Your tax dollars at work..... what?
Phil E. Drifter - 15 years ago
BTW it's the Federal Reserve. Did you all notice how we slipped into a 'recession,' in the 20s we studied in grade school the 'great depression,' the argument in support of the Federal Reserve was *so it could prevent* recessions/depressions.
Every president who's been assassinated *was* assassinated because they opposed the federal reserve. Two assassins *were killed before they could testify* so we will NEVER know what kind of testimony they could have given. Pretty convenient for the Federal Reserve. The other two escaped...back to England (Bank of England).
We learned (at least I learned) in grade school that prohibition causes crime and corruption.
So why did we outlaw *naturally growing* drugs that minorities used instead of drinking the white man's alcohol? To stuff our prisons with nonviolent minorities.
I can speak with firsthand knowledge, ALCOHOL IS BY FAR the most dangerous drug known to man, because no other drug turns someone into a blubbering, uncoordinated, belligerent oaf.
Read tinyurl.com/1mn
Phil E. Drifter - 15 years ago
Jay: "We face two wars of different scales and issues. Iraq was controled by a dicator who was practicing facist persecution of its own population"
None. of. our. business.
We invaded Iraq for the oil. We can't invade Saudi Arabia because they're allies. Saddam was the 'bully' in the middle east and no one (none of the kings/princes/presidents/premiers/leaders) liked him so they all looked the other way when we ILLEGALLY, UNCONSTITUTIONALLY invaded Iraq.
so many of you are so goddamn stupid it hurts to even read your retarded comments.
Phil E. Drifter - 15 years ago
The purpose of continual war is to bleed some of the population off the planet (check out that dumb family in Arkansas that just had their 19th child) while making the rich richer and consolidating government power.
Phil E. Drifter - 15 years ago
Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard.
B.efreom (or something equally stupid) "Try this on for size you leftist nutroots."
yeah way to lose your argument with the first sentence.
Bush Family's Partnership with Killers of Americans: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/10_09_01_carlyle.html
Too complicated to be summed up with a radio button. But, in that vein, Iraq war bad, Afghanistan war more or less good.
Bret Hooper - 15 years ago
There is no ONE reason; three of the leading reasons are:
Expansion of power, Diverting our attention, and increasing profits, making the rich richer and the poor and middle class poorer.
Jay - 15 years ago
We face two wars of different scales and issues. Iraq was controled by a dicator who was practicing facist persecution of its own population (the Kurds - over 5000 murder by Hussain). Removing Hussain left a void of government. Iraq has never had a democratic republic and is surrounded by other states either controlled by kings or theocracies (like Iran). To avoid chaos and allow a government to take root, assistance had to be provided. The brave Americans who have served in Iraq has done so at their own paeril to help the people. The time is coming when with some help Iraq can run its own government by elections and popular rule without the government participating in genocide. Afganistan is another matter. It is the potential spawning ground for Isalamic militant terroist as it has been for years. It would take 100 years to win a war of any klind in this country. That is not the reason to be there. The terrain is so terrible, development in this country made of multiple non-friendly tribes is not possible. Assisting Afganistan helps the governement bring aid and assistance to its impoverished people while contiunually interfering with the Talliban efforts to operate out of this country. Had Clinton made a more serious effort to take out BenLaiden, 911 might have avoided. Obama needs to find the will and determination to go after the Taliban and the all other militant Islamic terroist group any and every where they try to function. No safe haven for terrorists is the ONLY way to wage a war against such criminals. We are not fighting a country or even a culture but a militant ideology. To be soft on these issues is to an ignornant pollyanna. These people killed 3000+ people in the World Trade Center-if they had their way all Americans would be dead. All the forgivenss and love in the world will not change their efforts. Passive ignorance is not an option.
Dewey Chadborn - 15 years ago
Don't you remember 9-11, the people who were jumping from the 100th floor to their deaths it still makes me angry when I think about it.
If it were an inside job don't you think that they would be showing the footage on the mass media brainwashing centers.......
Remember the Palestinians dancing in the street when the towers fell? The radical Muslims hate us because we are here. They hate us as Christians. They hate the left because we tolerate homosexuals; they preach world domination and extermination of the infidels. We have to wake up.
The answer for politicians is Election Reform; take all the money out of our system. And we have to have Term Limits for all.
DoninGeorgia - 15 years ago
I voted "other" also. It's Bibical folks! War's and rumors of war have been
around since the Tower of Babel. I will say this. Individual people seldom
create wars. War is a product of the greatest enemy of people down thru
history.... because War is made by GOVERNMENT's! Every form of the various
governments devised by people lead to these wars. The "leaders" of governments declare WAR not "the people."
Bryan D - 15 years ago
This country was not founded as a democracy. This country is a representative REPUBLIC. The founders of our nation hated the idea of Democracy(where 51% of the people tell the other 49% how to live). As a matter of fact the word democracy is not once mentioned in our founding documents.
Please try READING something other than a newspaper and become informed citizens. In a republic it is impossible for 99% of the population to take away the god-given rights of even 1%. I've always known this nation was in trouble, but it's really bad when our schools and politicians who stay in power for decades have managed to convince the population they live under a type of government that was never intended in America.
Bryan D - 15 years ago
I also challenge any of you who read this crap to look into what 'liberalism' truly is. Most of the ignorant fools who use this term out there have no idea of its meaning or where it comes from. Liberal is from the Latin 'liber,' meaning free. The Liberalism movement began many a year ago and was originally a push away from big government and regulation. Yet the 'liberals' of today are all about restricting freedoms and creating larger government.
Check out Ludwig Von Mises. His book, Liberalism, was given to me when I was about sixteen years old and I have held it near and dear ever since. If Americans would demand true education rather than the indoctrination and political rhetoric we find in our 'education system' these days we might actually see some change in our lifetimes. Unfortunately most of the drones in our society will never bother to research history or care whether or not they will be truly educated before they die.
"In our dreams, people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present education conventions of intellectual and character education fade from their minds, and, unhampered by tradition, we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people, or any of their children, into philosophers, or men of science. We have not to raise up from them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for great artists, painters, musicians nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen -- of whom we have an ample supply. The task is simple. We will organize children and teach them in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way."
-John D. Rockefeller, Sr.
Bryan D - 15 years ago
The purpose of war is quite simple. To create massive amounts of debt for every country involved and keep all the 'free' people of the world on a leash held by the true rulers of this world-banking elites.
If any of you would quit reading this propaganda and rhetoric our media dishes out to us and did a little research into the true history of the country you live in you might be surprised.
It doesn't matter who is in office and what letter they have next to their name. None of them are 'liberal' and none of them are telling us the truth. When was the last time any politician delivered on even a tenth of his campaign promises? It's been 70 days and all ready we see the Obama administration looking like an extension of Bush and Clinton with only one small difference. Obama can apparently get away with much more corruption at a much more alarming rate than his predecessors due to all the hype our media and schools has created for him. We are, and have been, headed straight to a political structure similar to that in Nazi Germany and half of us are always willing to go along with it because of these unfortunate labels of Democrat and Republican.
If you think our political leaders are even in control of their policies think again. Do some research, folks. It's all right in front of you if you bother to look. Try reading the constitution some time for that matter. You'll notice that since the Federal Reserve's rise to power our national debt has skyrocketed and never diminished.
We are slaves to the bankers' will and with every new administration the only differences we see in our lives are the increased restrictions and taxes handed over to us.
Check out Alan Greenspan on the Lehrer News Hour. Here's a quote of his from the interview:
“Well first of all the Federal Reserve is an independent agency. That means basically there is no other agency of government that can overrule actions that we take. So long as that is in place and there is no evidence that the administration, or congress, or anyone else is requesting that we do things other than we think is the appropriate thing then what the relationships are don't frankly matter” –Greenspan On PBS Lehrer News hour
And to finish I will let a greater man than any of us will ever come to know speak for me.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson 1816
We are in trouble, folks. Wake up and quit towing the political lines. This evil goes much deeper than we're led to believe.
Michael Bindner - 15 years ago
Preserve the size and power of the military-industrial complex.
Money is the root of all evil. Greed is bad. Give up your computer to the man on the street. Give up your ideals. Holding them to yourself is greedy. Give up all that you have and all the dreams you aspire to attain, because in and of themselves are all derived from, "greed" as you so succinctly put it. Socialism / Communism (NOT HUMANISM) will only lead those, with lower morals than you already deride others for having, into pushing their own personal dreams and aspirations upon your head. You can, "make money" here. Don't hold it against someone when they have a greater ability to, "make money" than you or the bum lying in the street. You want to take action, then shut up and go to the streets and begin to give everything you own away, start from scratch and show all of us how to achieve. I for one am, "greedy" and want to keep my dreams and my hopes and will save every penny I, "make" and try to pass it onto my children so they can live better than I have - if that makes me greedy then label me as such and get out of my way, because there's more money to be made.
I have worked in a very socialistic environment before and the incompetence of those who are paid, not for the fruits of their labors, but because they believe they are entitled to the money they make every month on their salary are the poorest of the poor workers who exist. It is only those who have the incentive to do better, by a higher monetary payout, who really achieve their optimum performance and produce great feats in industry, technology, and humanity (you don't really think the humanitarian workers receive nothing for their efforts do you - organizers and paid nicely). It is capitalism which incited the industrial revolution. It is capitalism which drove the ability for technology to advance as far as it had. The state owned schools DO NOT lead our planet in innovation, it is the research and development of our biggest corporations who invest the money they have, "MADE" into new and better products. Socialism has NEVER done this. If you want to help the man on the street then help him by producing something. Don't hand him a $1 bill out of the window of your BMW and then deride capitalism for the social failings of the incompetent. State workers will not help another out at 5 minutes to closing time, because there is no extra money in it for them and they are not allowed to work overtime.
Finally, people do not keep super markets open 24 hours out of the kindness of their hearts, they do it to "make" money. So the next time you or your significant other "needs" medicine, food, or even a beer at 1:59 am ask the checkout clerk if they are there for your social welfare or if they only stay there because the want to make money so they may continue to live in their abode as opposed to living on the street.
If you are socialist, thinking about becoming socialist, or sympathize with socialists please do every American a favor - move to France. I have no issues with that, but please do not attempt to change our country founded on hard work and the desire of an American to "make" money. The dollar sign in and of itself is woven into the fiber of our currency. Superimpose U and S over one another and you will see the resemblance. Keep America free of socialists and completely in favor of free and honest trade.
Your humble capitalist and purveyor of freedom,
TheIndependantLibertarian
Robert Dyment - 15 years ago
The purpose of continual war is to create chaos and degeneration among those of noble spirit in order to establish the reign of the Great (final) AntiChrist with the greatest ease and dispatch. When he appears, people will say "Peace in our time" only to learn that peace is not obtained by armed might or politics. They shall reap the whirlwind, those who have not placed their hope in Jesus Christ and His Immaculate Mother.
It matters not whether the Great AntiChrist arises from the soft West or the militant, socialist atheism of the East which is even more Satanic in its cruelty and barbarism, if that is possible, he is Satan nevertheless. He is doomed to failure in advance even if he attempts to have himself worshiped as God. He shall be cast into Hell along with his minions: Paradise Lost for a second, and final time.
nas - 15 years ago
The purpose of continual war was never charted out by architects of war--it was, however, charted out by architects of economies. Read Naomi Kleins' Shock Doctrine--her thesis is brilliant, this war and all the torture involved "started out" decades ago and has been planned as a means of building huge economic and corporate power.
If you still believe it's about terrorism and protecting the country or even about oil, you're not seeing the big, global picture as it's evolved systematically over the last few decades.
Carolfrances - 15 years ago
"Expansion of power" (22%) plus "profits" (28%) plus "divert our attention" (10%) equals 60%. That means the majority of us sense that it's about expanding the power of the capitalists who run our nation (and much of the world), increasing their profits and diverting our attention from the shambles they've made of what was supposed to be our democracy, our way of life, and our world. Considering the lies of the corporate media, not too bad.
dok - 15 years ago
i casted my vote "other" the primary cause is hubris driven stupidity. not sure the infestation called humanity can do any better
ChrisC - 15 years ago
I voted "other" b/c nothing on the list entirely captures the aspect of human nature that leads us to start and prolong war even when other options are available: We can control a fight, in process and outcome, or so we think, and I believe that this need for control drives most of our poor political, military, economic, social and personal choices.
princeofpeace - 15 years ago
"We are aligned with Israel against the Muslims, and we are cleansing the Earth of our enemy."
-USMC Commander
This is a religious war started by the nice Christians because the Israelis felt threatened by Iran....it was meant to jump start Armageddon so that Jesus would come floating down out of the Eastern sky and smite the evildoers, but something didn't work out right, did it?
Now China owns us financially and Israel has always owned us ideologically.
We must support Israel because they are "God's chosen people" and therefore have every right to practice ethnic violence/cleansing and spread fear, hatred and proclaim love for God (as long as it is the God who chose them as His own, that is).
Why didn't anyone ask me if I wanted to pay for a religious war?
And is it really worth destroying the Earth in order to fulfill a prediction made by a few Bronze age sheepherders sitting around in their tents and trying to come up with a way to rule their neighbors?
I say that if you want to live in a country that is ruled by religious fanatics/extremists, then why don't you move to Iran?
What a bunch of sheeple.
N Cohonado - 15 years ago
Why, to keep silly little bloggers occupied, silly!
Robert B - 15 years ago
Brian E. I would like to buy you a drink and chat with you..... Amen to all u said.. My Comment ...9-11... tell all those families who lost loved ones on those planes and The Towers and the Pentagon why you would chose NOT to chase the one's Who attacked us.. are we in the wrong country fighting now.. probably...we need to find them and hunt them to keep from attacking us again. Those terrorist are not only attacking the US but other countries as well regardless of race, color or religion. I say help one another quit fighting and pointing fingers and lets get on with protecting what we are so lucky to have. Right now my kids go to bed with out hearing bombs shelling and guns firing in my neighborhood. My choice would be build our military and guard our boarders well and keep oil prices low to keep foreign extremist from profiting off of us and buy and drill from our own country and proven allies. Then let those nations if need be fight it out. Lets take care of our vetrans who fought for us and take care of our elderly who raised us. We all have an opinion.....be blessed you can speak it with out being killed for having one. If you dont like it here you can GO there to where they hate us and you might be happy then. But I doubt it...
gigi - 15 years ago
because bush is a fookin idiot
james - 15 years ago
All of the above.
War is not healthy for children and other living things. One cannot be exposed to war--even as a soldier--and come back normal. It's the elephant in the living room.
Unfortunately, war and redemptive violence are still seen as useful by many. But that is changing and, in fact, must change. We're all on the same planet. Nobody's passenger. Everybody's crew.
Who knows, maybe the Rick Warren brigade might start taking Jesus seriously instead of literally. Maybe workshops for executives on conflict resolution could have a trickle down effect. Perhaps, as Malcom Gladwell writes, there IS such a thing as a "tipping point" when the committment and actions of a few can influence the whole to a new level or paradigm shift.
Yeah--hippie, New Age, dreamer, Obamabot, bleeding heart. So I've heard.
What's the alternative, though, since today we all seem to be riding in the same speeding bus?
Andrew - 15 years ago
I chose "expanding power" because that was the answer closest to the term "imperialism". That's what this is. That's what all wars between modern states are bred by. Not differing ideologies; all states today share the same ideology: Capitalism! They all compete with one another for resources, and they will seek to destroy one another in the end if that's what is necessary.
Read:
"Imperialism: the Highest Form of Capitalism" by VI Lenin.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/index.htm
Brian Ewing - 15 years ago
One of the things that jumps out at me is the contradiction I see so often from the left. Brilliant people, erudite and so gifted at regurgitating everything they read from even more brilliant, gifted writers. The absolute refusal to see the world the way it really is. How was it that this great nation you so despise contrived the attack on September 11th so as to feed the military industrial complex? Did we cleverly begin at the USS Kohl? Do you suppose that Bin Ladin was really the illegitimate love child of Karl Rove and Mata Hari? Our own sleeper brought to life just in time to sabotage the Bush administration? If the country thrives on war then how can you claim that the Clinton peace time years were the best in recorded history? And are we now doomed that the Marxist B.Hussein Obama, who just today said with certainty that he will "end terrorism", how will we survive as a nation if he will do nothing to engage us in anything more violent than pata cake? Or am I missing the point? Will we no longer be a sovereign nation ruled by the will of the people? Will we be engaging in that proven political system known as socialism? In that model of efficiency, Communism? Remember Joe the plumber? Remember Barry's retort? "Spread the wealth". The only thing the overly nice, too kind to stir up any trouble left managed was "he doesn't even have a license"!! "He's not even paying his taxes"!!! Forgive me for being so bold as to remind you that, in his own inimitable, community organizer fashion, Barry approached Joe, not the other way around. And Joe asked a simple question. "Why do you want to take the money I work for and give it to someone who didn't work for it"? Barry's answer was, what?!! To spread the wealth!! (In other words Joe, from you, according to your means, to him, according to his needs)! The press all but erased that from every sound bite they could get their hands on! Nary a word about the annointed one citing Karl Marx as part of his campaign strategy! KARL MARX!!!! Pardon me, I didn't mean to shout. To those of you on the extreme left of this lefty blog, if you would. Either stop reading now or, at the very least, if you happen to have a barf bag handy, go get it and then continue reading my mean spirited rant. I'm about to use the most foul name known to exist. Ready? Ronald Reagan (I warned you!!) was having a conversation with his daughter, Patty Davis, when Patty was at the Governors mansion in California visiting the family. He asked how the studies were going and she informed him that although the work load was a strain and quite daunting at times, she was maintaining a 4.0! Her father was very proud and told her so. He then asked about Patty's friend who was at the same school taking the same type of courses. Terrible! Patty replied. She's hardly ever in class, she parties all night, sleeps all day and is barely holding on to a 2.0. Then her father, former Democrat and now Republican governor of California suggested,"Patty, why don't you go to the Dean when you get back to school and ask him to REDUCE your GPA to a 3.0 and RAISE your friend's to a 3.0! that way you'll both be on a level plane. Patty was outraged! And rightfully so! "Why would I give somone who isn't willing to do the work the rewards that I earned by my own hard work"?!! Mr. Reagan then smiled that wonderful smile and gently said to his liberal daughter, "welcome to the Republican party"! And before you libs call this a fairy tale or folk lore, who cares?!!! This government never turns it's back on those who are truly in need! NEVER! And when I say "those who aren't willing to do the work" you know of whom I speak! And before you label me a bigot, notice I didn't mention race! You, however will accuse me implicitly. Lazy is covered by your rainbow! And lazy shouldn't get a check! But now lazy won't be able to find a job soon anyway when "The One" kills all the small businesses by taxing the very lifes blood out of them. You wanted change!!
dave - 15 years ago
Like past wars its all about energy, what's different is that 2 major players are being blocked by a small war. (China & India) By the time the war is over most of the oil will be gone from the Mid- East.
duryodana - 15 years ago
I'm an "other"
order from poll options:
1. Divert our attention
2. Profits
3. Expansion of power
also, as in all governments, done solely in the interest of that government and country.
the argument that it's not in US interest to be doing it is inconsequential when the powers that be believe that it is.
In this case, the US, must come first and foremost and the consequences for others (even their own) be damned.
BUT primarily, revenge pure and simple in the case of Afghanistan and as for Iraq... Junior is/was hoping to take revenge for Iraq War I costing his Daddy a second term.
such a good boy!
to respond to LD:
yes War is sometimes necessary, however neither of these were... between the CIA, Special Forces, MI6, SAS, etc etc etc. not to mention intelligence and air/space surveillance allowing precision bombs/missiles/air strikes.
Al Qaeda and Bin Laden could have been taken out 5 minutes after the government knew it was him, which was probably 10 minutes after the first plane slammed into the towers.
Iraq, I won't even bother.
these were NOT necessary wars, they were wanted wars. For political, economic and domestic reasons solely.
LD - 15 years ago
I don't you about you all, but I like living in a free country, where I can choose my own career, what I'll wear each day, who (or whether) I'll marry. Where I can wake up each morning without being afraid that someone with a gun will pull me off the metro and gun me down because of the color of my skin, whether or not my hair is visible to the public, or my religion of choice. All of this means I like having a great big, well-trained, well-provisioned army between me and the people who'd like to change all that.
I know a lot of people don't like the US playing 'Big Brother' with the rest of the world, making sure everyone else plays nice. In order to keep ourselves safe, the only other alternative is to pull all our military forces back and use them to absolutely close the borders. No outsiders allowed in ever again. I'd like to say we could find a middle ground, but history shows that there is no such thing. The UN is a classic example. They shout and chastize, but they have no power to compel or punish, which means they cannot enforce their edicts. Economic sanctions don't work against countries ruled by dictators who don't care what happens to their citizens as long as they stay in power and keep their palaces.
War is never pleasant, never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing.
KM - 15 years ago
capitalism...thats the reason...in its very own its a living breathing devil. We gave life to corruption. to greed. Yes i agree, we have "greater opportunities"...because of free trade. But thats the bait... Do a little research, read a few books and you will understand that Corporate America and our philosophy on government has enslaved us through our ideal of "instant" gratification and success and "freedom". it further pushes the gap between the poor and rich. Spreading like a disease across the planet... Know this... it would be impossible for large amounts of people to be wealthy... in comparison to the population of poor. Statistically your odds are higher in falling into the "poor" bracket then the rich. the war is a by-product of our lack of moderation and self governing skills. The people rule government..the government does not rule the people. This has become lost...we are in this situation because we have chosen this fate... YES you choose it, for living in denial and doing nothing.. talk is cheap, want things to change? take action. otherwise you earned the fate before you. This is our new America. we made the choice. Social reform is needed. otherwise this shall be the fate to come for many years ahead. Hell we cant even "stick it" to the man any longer... cause the "man" has even become a slave to our creation. who would have known something non living, non spiritual, something fused from materialistic ideology would hold so much power over us.. something rather..."non existent" and serves no purpose other then that of which we give it holds so much influence over us ...who would have known paper and metals with dead peoples faces on them would rule the world? .. ironic.
the Core of capitalism is profit.
want to know its "enemy"?
Socialism / humanism
Why?
because at their core its about the people and not money.
Sadly people have grown evil in nature and such ideals can not be up held correctly in our world.
so want things to change? stand up. Do something. otherwise sit back and enjoy the ride.
Mike Alexander - 15 years ago
I think continual war serves two purposes. (1) it helps re-elect conservatives (2) it justifies rent-seeking by the military-industrial complex
AKgrandma - 15 years ago
We are spending BILLIONS on war and we are doing it for PROFIT??? Not in my economics class!
Mick - 15 years ago
Hey Ell, another interesting thing about when Clinton bombed Al Queda in Afghanistan is the fact that the Republicans at the time, accused him of doing it for political reasons, to distract attention away from the Monica Lewinsky story.
Then they impeach him for lying under oath about a BJ. And then a few years later, Bush pardons Scooter Libby for lying under oath about the compromising of a covert C.I.A. agents identity!
What kind of TWISTED justice/morality is that?
And now those same Republicans have the gall to blame Clinton for the 9/11 attacks, because they say, "He wasn't aggressive enough towards Al Queda when he was president" . . . ???
I can't deny that there are intelligent Republicans, but it's a paradox that I certainly can't explain.
Eli - 15 years ago
I voted other.
The reason:
Ineptitude and lack of focus. 1. we were attacked, by people operating out of Afghanistan (you know, the same ones that when Bill Clinton tried to actually take them out 11 days after the African embassy bombings, Sen. Coates (R-IN) called on him to resign for attacking them.) 2. The Bush administration, motivated by a combination of personal animus, oil economics and an irrational anger at both Iraq and Iran going back to the 1980's (remember most of the Bush advisors were former Reaganauts.)
So the Bush administration then really believed that we could win this war in a few weeks so they sold it that way. They ineptly fit the intel to their decision rather than fitting their decision to the intel.
And just like anything else Bush touches, the war turned to garbage. Stop and think about it this way: Even if you buy that the surge was a 'success,' then the best thing Bush can claim for a legacy is that he sort of reduced the mess he made on Iraq (thereby leaving the Afghan mess, the economic mess, the health care mess, the international relations mess, the Katrina mess, the energy mess and the national debt mess completely intact for cleaning up later.
This is what happens when you elect a guy with an unrealistic plan 'A' and no plan 'B' for what to do when plan 'A' doesn't work.
Mick - 16 years ago
YO! B.Efream, Speaking on behalf of all the "leftist nutroots", we appreciate that you would share your point of view, but your condescending insults reveal an intolerance born of insecurity and ignorance.
The reasons for being at war in Iraq have been discussed and debated ad-infinitum. I doubt anybody is going to change anyone else's mind on that war.
I would however ask that you consider the fact that when a countrys economy revolves around a military-industrial complex, then that economy cannot sustain itself for any length of time without wars. Now I'm not saying that ALL wars are unnecessary, but HISTORY shows us that MOST modern day industrialized wars could have been avoided if that had been the objective. But it wasn't. A military-industrial based economy/country will always need wars to survive, and their leaders will always look for reasons to fight and/or create them, or even go so far as to fabricate them from strands of ignorance and bits of ego!
No doubt you've seen and heard this expression before, but I wonder if you've actually ever seriously contemplated it? QUESTION AUTHORITY!
B.Efreom - 16 years ago
Try this on for size you leftist nutroots. There is a war on because Islamic Jihadis and Fascists have declared and made it so. Since you folks have learned little or nothing about history you will be condemned to repeat the same mistakes made by all spineless appeasers. B.Efreom
Mick - 16 years ago
The military-industrial complex, which is by far the largest portion of the U.S.
budget, cannot exist without war.
It's all about the money, because that's what capitalism is all about!
Justine - 16 years ago
I think that one the war is indeed about consolidating the power of the plutocracy. However, I also believe that continual war makes people angry and stupid. And that is exactly what fascists demagogues need in order to seize and retain power, and the wealth that accrues from it.
Bret Hooper - 16 years ago
There are 3 correct answers to the question: Profits, Expansion of power, and Diverting our attention. All 3 are major goals of the Administration.
Adam - 16 years ago
Unfortunately, the military-industrial complex has a significant positive impact on our economy. This combined with the opportunity to show our strength, the security of thwarting terrorists in the middle east that have proved themselves to be a threat, the assumed responsibility to be a mediator on a global scope, and the initial promise to be seen by the world as liberators to the Iraqi people was enough incentive to the current administration to go to war. Now we're in a situation where it is impossible for us to get out. My vote is for making the world a safe place. And to even have "divert our attention" as an option and implying that the underlying reason for this war is for something more sinister is almost as ridiculous as it having 12% of the votes. Cheney's a freak though.
Ol' Daddy Bush taught some tricks to folks fighting in the Middle East, and son Bush is trying to keep his ol' dad out the global courts, plus war means more money for all the pals of the Bush family.. oh, and when does the Earth run out of crude oil ? better keep that off shore stuff for the US when that time comes.
Lenny Mac - 16 years ago
Other: yes, profits, monetarily, but a great deal of hubris, arrogance & just plain stupidity in the form of miscalculation. we needn't have invaded Iraq, did & are now digging out by furnishing the hole we continue to dig. the worst administration ever to helm the USA @ the most dangerous time in the history of manunkind given its ability to dirtybomb itself into stupefaction.
Ralph Spyer - 16 years ago
OIL
e valderrama - 16 years ago
I hate to agree with my Christian acquaintances, but it sure looks like sacking the country and immolating its youth will take the US down another notch so it will fit in with the third world countries in a "one world" dictatorship. I thought the same during the Vietnam bleeding.
J.R. - 16 years ago
We are in Iraq because we don't know how to leave. We are in Afghanistan/NW Pakistan because that's where the enemies and bin Laden are.
Joe - 16 years ago
Let's bifurcate your question.
1. Purpose of war. People mean war to serve all purposes and often achieve none of them when they participate in war.
2. Continual war. People have not yet organized their arrangements with each other to remove the incentive from such wars as people wage today.
That's my vote.
arkman - 16 years ago
agree with above, plus fear of appearing weak, fear of shiite iran dominating shiite iraq, which would endanger sunni saudi arabia and the emirates along the gulf, the us's biggest client states in the arab world, which now control a good slice of the the us economy. hmmn
have you looked at the movie "1984" lately? you won't see it on the networks or movie channels. why? all war, all the time. that's why i voted for "distraction". i guess i agree the c-hawks weren't looking ahead. at best, they were probably hoping for a pacific occupation, thus providing the necessary distraction while their backers shoveled the nations coffers out to the yacht-enabled.
Matthew - 16 years ago
Even the architects of the war foresaw next to nothing of what has come about. I highly doubt that the people who started this thing were even looking ahead at all. They may have a number of justifications (or infinite ones as they are needed) for it, and pretend that there is nothing really wrong and that we are making progress, but the war, for all intents and purposes, is senseless. It is a senseless waste of resources and life. Maybe it is necessary for us humans to do things like this, but I don't think we should act as if this sort of thing is logical or even intelligible. We should not give undue credit to the people who start wars, because the truth is that Bush and his chickenhawk friends (and their kindred in every period of history) were colossally foolish. They still are, and will hopefully be remembered that way.
ask this question:
WHY did the worlds greatest military power FAIL to defend even its own HQ?
and the Commander in Chief could be found sitting in a photo-op after being told "AMERICA is under attack"
Your tax dollars at work..... what?
BTW it's the Federal Reserve. Did you all notice how we slipped into a 'recession,' in the 20s we studied in grade school the 'great depression,' the argument in support of the Federal Reserve was *so it could prevent* recessions/depressions.
Every president who's been assassinated *was* assassinated because they opposed the federal reserve. Two assassins *were killed before they could testify* so we will NEVER know what kind of testimony they could have given. Pretty convenient for the Federal Reserve. The other two escaped...back to England (Bank of England).
We learned (at least I learned) in grade school that prohibition causes crime and corruption.
So why did we outlaw *naturally growing* drugs that minorities used instead of drinking the white man's alcohol? To stuff our prisons with nonviolent minorities.
I can speak with firsthand knowledge, ALCOHOL IS BY FAR the most dangerous drug known to man, because no other drug turns someone into a blubbering, uncoordinated, belligerent oaf.
Read tinyurl.com/1mn
Jay: "We face two wars of different scales and issues. Iraq was controled by a dicator who was practicing facist persecution of its own population"
None. of. our. business.
We invaded Iraq for the oil. We can't invade Saudi Arabia because they're allies. Saddam was the 'bully' in the middle east and no one (none of the kings/princes/presidents/premiers/leaders) liked him so they all looked the other way when we ILLEGALLY, UNCONSTITUTIONALLY invaded Iraq.
so many of you are so goddamn stupid it hurts to even read your retarded comments.
The purpose of continual war is to bleed some of the population off the planet (check out that dumb family in Arkansas that just had their 19th child) while making the rich richer and consolidating government power.
Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard.
B.efreom (or something equally stupid) "Try this on for size you leftist nutroots."
yeah way to lose your argument with the first sentence.
Bush Family's Partnership with Killers of Americans: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/10_09_01_carlyle.html
250+ 9/11 Smoking Guns: http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/911smokingguns.html
Isn't Barack a chickenhawk?
Too complicated to be summed up with a radio button. But, in that vein, Iraq war bad, Afghanistan war more or less good.
There is no ONE reason; three of the leading reasons are:
Expansion of power, Diverting our attention, and increasing profits, making the rich richer and the poor and middle class poorer.
We face two wars of different scales and issues. Iraq was controled by a dicator who was practicing facist persecution of its own population (the Kurds - over 5000 murder by Hussain). Removing Hussain left a void of government. Iraq has never had a democratic republic and is surrounded by other states either controlled by kings or theocracies (like Iran). To avoid chaos and allow a government to take root, assistance had to be provided. The brave Americans who have served in Iraq has done so at their own paeril to help the people. The time is coming when with some help Iraq can run its own government by elections and popular rule without the government participating in genocide. Afganistan is another matter. It is the potential spawning ground for Isalamic militant terroist as it has been for years. It would take 100 years to win a war of any klind in this country. That is not the reason to be there. The terrain is so terrible, development in this country made of multiple non-friendly tribes is not possible. Assisting Afganistan helps the governement bring aid and assistance to its impoverished people while contiunually interfering with the Talliban efforts to operate out of this country. Had Clinton made a more serious effort to take out BenLaiden, 911 might have avoided. Obama needs to find the will and determination to go after the Taliban and the all other militant Islamic terroist group any and every where they try to function. No safe haven for terrorists is the ONLY way to wage a war against such criminals. We are not fighting a country or even a culture but a militant ideology. To be soft on these issues is to an ignornant pollyanna. These people killed 3000+ people in the World Trade Center-if they had their way all Americans would be dead. All the forgivenss and love in the world will not change their efforts. Passive ignorance is not an option.
Don't you remember 9-11, the people who were jumping from the 100th floor to their deaths it still makes me angry when I think about it.
If it were an inside job don't you think that they would be showing the footage on the mass media brainwashing centers.......
Remember the Palestinians dancing in the street when the towers fell? The radical Muslims hate us because we are here. They hate us as Christians. They hate the left because we tolerate homosexuals; they preach world domination and extermination of the infidels. We have to wake up.
The answer for politicians is Election Reform; take all the money out of our system. And we have to have Term Limits for all.
I voted "other" also. It's Bibical folks! War's and rumors of war have been
around since the Tower of Babel. I will say this. Individual people seldom
create wars. War is a product of the greatest enemy of people down thru
history.... because War is made by GOVERNMENT's! Every form of the various
governments devised by people lead to these wars. The "leaders" of governments declare WAR not "the people."
This country was not founded as a democracy. This country is a representative REPUBLIC. The founders of our nation hated the idea of Democracy(where 51% of the people tell the other 49% how to live). As a matter of fact the word democracy is not once mentioned in our founding documents.
Please try READING something other than a newspaper and become informed citizens. In a republic it is impossible for 99% of the population to take away the god-given rights of even 1%. I've always known this nation was in trouble, but it's really bad when our schools and politicians who stay in power for decades have managed to convince the population they live under a type of government that was never intended in America.
I also challenge any of you who read this crap to look into what 'liberalism' truly is. Most of the ignorant fools who use this term out there have no idea of its meaning or where it comes from. Liberal is from the Latin 'liber,' meaning free. The Liberalism movement began many a year ago and was originally a push away from big government and regulation. Yet the 'liberals' of today are all about restricting freedoms and creating larger government.
Check out Ludwig Von Mises. His book, Liberalism, was given to me when I was about sixteen years old and I have held it near and dear ever since. If Americans would demand true education rather than the indoctrination and political rhetoric we find in our 'education system' these days we might actually see some change in our lifetimes. Unfortunately most of the drones in our society will never bother to research history or care whether or not they will be truly educated before they die.
"In our dreams, people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present education conventions of intellectual and character education fade from their minds, and, unhampered by tradition, we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people, or any of their children, into philosophers, or men of science. We have not to raise up from them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for great artists, painters, musicians nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen -- of whom we have an ample supply. The task is simple. We will organize children and teach them in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way."
-John D. Rockefeller, Sr.
The purpose of war is quite simple. To create massive amounts of debt for every country involved and keep all the 'free' people of the world on a leash held by the true rulers of this world-banking elites.
If any of you would quit reading this propaganda and rhetoric our media dishes out to us and did a little research into the true history of the country you live in you might be surprised.
It doesn't matter who is in office and what letter they have next to their name. None of them are 'liberal' and none of them are telling us the truth. When was the last time any politician delivered on even a tenth of his campaign promises? It's been 70 days and all ready we see the Obama administration looking like an extension of Bush and Clinton with only one small difference. Obama can apparently get away with much more corruption at a much more alarming rate than his predecessors due to all the hype our media and schools has created for him. We are, and have been, headed straight to a political structure similar to that in Nazi Germany and half of us are always willing to go along with it because of these unfortunate labels of Democrat and Republican.
If you think our political leaders are even in control of their policies think again. Do some research, folks. It's all right in front of you if you bother to look. Try reading the constitution some time for that matter. You'll notice that since the Federal Reserve's rise to power our national debt has skyrocketed and never diminished.
We are slaves to the bankers' will and with every new administration the only differences we see in our lives are the increased restrictions and taxes handed over to us.
Check out Alan Greenspan on the Lehrer News Hour. Here's a quote of his from the interview:
“Well first of all the Federal Reserve is an independent agency. That means basically there is no other agency of government that can overrule actions that we take. So long as that is in place and there is no evidence that the administration, or congress, or anyone else is requesting that we do things other than we think is the appropriate thing then what the relationships are don't frankly matter” –Greenspan On PBS Lehrer News hour
And to finish I will let a greater man than any of us will ever come to know speak for me.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson 1816
We are in trouble, folks. Wake up and quit towing the political lines. This evil goes much deeper than we're led to believe.
Preserve the size and power of the military-industrial complex.
Dear KM,
Money is the root of all evil. Greed is bad. Give up your computer to the man on the street. Give up your ideals. Holding them to yourself is greedy. Give up all that you have and all the dreams you aspire to attain, because in and of themselves are all derived from, "greed" as you so succinctly put it. Socialism / Communism (NOT HUMANISM) will only lead those, with lower morals than you already deride others for having, into pushing their own personal dreams and aspirations upon your head. You can, "make money" here. Don't hold it against someone when they have a greater ability to, "make money" than you or the bum lying in the street. You want to take action, then shut up and go to the streets and begin to give everything you own away, start from scratch and show all of us how to achieve. I for one am, "greedy" and want to keep my dreams and my hopes and will save every penny I, "make" and try to pass it onto my children so they can live better than I have - if that makes me greedy then label me as such and get out of my way, because there's more money to be made.
I have worked in a very socialistic environment before and the incompetence of those who are paid, not for the fruits of their labors, but because they believe they are entitled to the money they make every month on their salary are the poorest of the poor workers who exist. It is only those who have the incentive to do better, by a higher monetary payout, who really achieve their optimum performance and produce great feats in industry, technology, and humanity (you don't really think the humanitarian workers receive nothing for their efforts do you - organizers and paid nicely). It is capitalism which incited the industrial revolution. It is capitalism which drove the ability for technology to advance as far as it had. The state owned schools DO NOT lead our planet in innovation, it is the research and development of our biggest corporations who invest the money they have, "MADE" into new and better products. Socialism has NEVER done this. If you want to help the man on the street then help him by producing something. Don't hand him a $1 bill out of the window of your BMW and then deride capitalism for the social failings of the incompetent. State workers will not help another out at 5 minutes to closing time, because there is no extra money in it for them and they are not allowed to work overtime.
Finally, people do not keep super markets open 24 hours out of the kindness of their hearts, they do it to "make" money. So the next time you or your significant other "needs" medicine, food, or even a beer at 1:59 am ask the checkout clerk if they are there for your social welfare or if they only stay there because the want to make money so they may continue to live in their abode as opposed to living on the street.
If you are socialist, thinking about becoming socialist, or sympathize with socialists please do every American a favor - move to France. I have no issues with that, but please do not attempt to change our country founded on hard work and the desire of an American to "make" money. The dollar sign in and of itself is woven into the fiber of our currency. Superimpose U and S over one another and you will see the resemblance. Keep America free of socialists and completely in favor of free and honest trade.
Your humble capitalist and purveyor of freedom,
TheIndependantLibertarian
The purpose of continual war is to create chaos and degeneration among those of noble spirit in order to establish the reign of the Great (final) AntiChrist with the greatest ease and dispatch. When he appears, people will say "Peace in our time" only to learn that peace is not obtained by armed might or politics. They shall reap the whirlwind, those who have not placed their hope in Jesus Christ and His Immaculate Mother.
It matters not whether the Great AntiChrist arises from the soft West or the militant, socialist atheism of the East which is even more Satanic in its cruelty and barbarism, if that is possible, he is Satan nevertheless. He is doomed to failure in advance even if he attempts to have himself worshiped as God. He shall be cast into Hell along with his minions: Paradise Lost for a second, and final time.
The purpose of continual war was never charted out by architects of war--it was, however, charted out by architects of economies. Read Naomi Kleins' Shock Doctrine--her thesis is brilliant, this war and all the torture involved "started out" decades ago and has been planned as a means of building huge economic and corporate power.
If you still believe it's about terrorism and protecting the country or even about oil, you're not seeing the big, global picture as it's evolved systematically over the last few decades.
"Expansion of power" (22%) plus "profits" (28%) plus "divert our attention" (10%) equals 60%. That means the majority of us sense that it's about expanding the power of the capitalists who run our nation (and much of the world), increasing their profits and diverting our attention from the shambles they've made of what was supposed to be our democracy, our way of life, and our world. Considering the lies of the corporate media, not too bad.
i casted my vote "other" the primary cause is hubris driven stupidity. not sure the infestation called humanity can do any better
I voted "other" b/c nothing on the list entirely captures the aspect of human nature that leads us to start and prolong war even when other options are available: We can control a fight, in process and outcome, or so we think, and I believe that this need for control drives most of our poor political, military, economic, social and personal choices.
"We are aligned with Israel against the Muslims, and we are cleansing the Earth of our enemy."
-USMC Commander
This is a religious war started by the nice Christians because the Israelis felt threatened by Iran....it was meant to jump start Armageddon so that Jesus would come floating down out of the Eastern sky and smite the evildoers, but something didn't work out right, did it?
Now China owns us financially and Israel has always owned us ideologically.
We must support Israel because they are "God's chosen people" and therefore have every right to practice ethnic violence/cleansing and spread fear, hatred and proclaim love for God (as long as it is the God who chose them as His own, that is).
Why didn't anyone ask me if I wanted to pay for a religious war?
And is it really worth destroying the Earth in order to fulfill a prediction made by a few Bronze age sheepherders sitting around in their tents and trying to come up with a way to rule their neighbors?
I say that if you want to live in a country that is ruled by religious fanatics/extremists, then why don't you move to Iran?
What a bunch of sheeple.
Why, to keep silly little bloggers occupied, silly!
Brian E. I would like to buy you a drink and chat with you..... Amen to all u said.. My Comment ...9-11... tell all those families who lost loved ones on those planes and The Towers and the Pentagon why you would chose NOT to chase the one's Who attacked us.. are we in the wrong country fighting now.. probably...we need to find them and hunt them to keep from attacking us again. Those terrorist are not only attacking the US but other countries as well regardless of race, color or religion. I say help one another quit fighting and pointing fingers and lets get on with protecting what we are so lucky to have. Right now my kids go to bed with out hearing bombs shelling and guns firing in my neighborhood. My choice would be build our military and guard our boarders well and keep oil prices low to keep foreign extremist from profiting off of us and buy and drill from our own country and proven allies. Then let those nations if need be fight it out. Lets take care of our vetrans who fought for us and take care of our elderly who raised us. We all have an opinion.....be blessed you can speak it with out being killed for having one. If you dont like it here you can GO there to where they hate us and you might be happy then. But I doubt it...
because bush is a fookin idiot
All of the above.
War is not healthy for children and other living things. One cannot be exposed to war--even as a soldier--and come back normal. It's the elephant in the living room.
Unfortunately, war and redemptive violence are still seen as useful by many. But that is changing and, in fact, must change. We're all on the same planet. Nobody's passenger. Everybody's crew.
Who knows, maybe the Rick Warren brigade might start taking Jesus seriously instead of literally. Maybe workshops for executives on conflict resolution could have a trickle down effect. Perhaps, as Malcom Gladwell writes, there IS such a thing as a "tipping point" when the committment and actions of a few can influence the whole to a new level or paradigm shift.
Yeah--hippie, New Age, dreamer, Obamabot, bleeding heart. So I've heard.
What's the alternative, though, since today we all seem to be riding in the same speeding bus?
I chose "expanding power" because that was the answer closest to the term "imperialism". That's what this is. That's what all wars between modern states are bred by. Not differing ideologies; all states today share the same ideology: Capitalism! They all compete with one another for resources, and they will seek to destroy one another in the end if that's what is necessary.
Read:
"Imperialism: the Highest Form of Capitalism" by VI Lenin.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/index.htm
One of the things that jumps out at me is the contradiction I see so often from the left. Brilliant people, erudite and so gifted at regurgitating everything they read from even more brilliant, gifted writers. The absolute refusal to see the world the way it really is. How was it that this great nation you so despise contrived the attack on September 11th so as to feed the military industrial complex? Did we cleverly begin at the USS Kohl? Do you suppose that Bin Ladin was really the illegitimate love child of Karl Rove and Mata Hari? Our own sleeper brought to life just in time to sabotage the Bush administration? If the country thrives on war then how can you claim that the Clinton peace time years were the best in recorded history? And are we now doomed that the Marxist B.Hussein Obama, who just today said with certainty that he will "end terrorism", how will we survive as a nation if he will do nothing to engage us in anything more violent than pata cake? Or am I missing the point? Will we no longer be a sovereign nation ruled by the will of the people? Will we be engaging in that proven political system known as socialism? In that model of efficiency, Communism? Remember Joe the plumber? Remember Barry's retort? "Spread the wealth". The only thing the overly nice, too kind to stir up any trouble left managed was "he doesn't even have a license"!! "He's not even paying his taxes"!!! Forgive me for being so bold as to remind you that, in his own inimitable, community organizer fashion, Barry approached Joe, not the other way around. And Joe asked a simple question. "Why do you want to take the money I work for and give it to someone who didn't work for it"? Barry's answer was, what?!! To spread the wealth!! (In other words Joe, from you, according to your means, to him, according to his needs)! The press all but erased that from every sound bite they could get their hands on! Nary a word about the annointed one citing Karl Marx as part of his campaign strategy! KARL MARX!!!! Pardon me, I didn't mean to shout. To those of you on the extreme left of this lefty blog, if you would. Either stop reading now or, at the very least, if you happen to have a barf bag handy, go get it and then continue reading my mean spirited rant. I'm about to use the most foul name known to exist. Ready? Ronald Reagan (I warned you!!) was having a conversation with his daughter, Patty Davis, when Patty was at the Governors mansion in California visiting the family. He asked how the studies were going and she informed him that although the work load was a strain and quite daunting at times, she was maintaining a 4.0! Her father was very proud and told her so. He then asked about Patty's friend who was at the same school taking the same type of courses. Terrible! Patty replied. She's hardly ever in class, she parties all night, sleeps all day and is barely holding on to a 2.0. Then her father, former Democrat and now Republican governor of California suggested,"Patty, why don't you go to the Dean when you get back to school and ask him to REDUCE your GPA to a 3.0 and RAISE your friend's to a 3.0! that way you'll both be on a level plane. Patty was outraged! And rightfully so! "Why would I give somone who isn't willing to do the work the rewards that I earned by my own hard work"?!! Mr. Reagan then smiled that wonderful smile and gently said to his liberal daughter, "welcome to the Republican party"! And before you libs call this a fairy tale or folk lore, who cares?!!! This government never turns it's back on those who are truly in need! NEVER! And when I say "those who aren't willing to do the work" you know of whom I speak! And before you label me a bigot, notice I didn't mention race! You, however will accuse me implicitly. Lazy is covered by your rainbow! And lazy shouldn't get a check! But now lazy won't be able to find a job soon anyway when "The One" kills all the small businesses by taxing the very lifes blood out of them. You wanted change!!
Like past wars its all about energy, what's different is that 2 major players are being blocked by a small war. (China & India) By the time the war is over most of the oil will be gone from the Mid- East.
I'm an "other"
order from poll options:
1. Divert our attention
2. Profits
3. Expansion of power
also, as in all governments, done solely in the interest of that government and country.
the argument that it's not in US interest to be doing it is inconsequential when the powers that be believe that it is.
In this case, the US, must come first and foremost and the consequences for others (even their own) be damned.
BUT primarily, revenge pure and simple in the case of Afghanistan and as for Iraq... Junior is/was hoping to take revenge for Iraq War I costing his Daddy a second term.
such a good boy!
to respond to LD:
yes War is sometimes necessary, however neither of these were... between the CIA, Special Forces, MI6, SAS, etc etc etc. not to mention intelligence and air/space surveillance allowing precision bombs/missiles/air strikes.
Al Qaeda and Bin Laden could have been taken out 5 minutes after the government knew it was him, which was probably 10 minutes after the first plane slammed into the towers.
Iraq, I won't even bother.
these were NOT necessary wars, they were wanted wars. For political, economic and domestic reasons solely.
I don't you about you all, but I like living in a free country, where I can choose my own career, what I'll wear each day, who (or whether) I'll marry. Where I can wake up each morning without being afraid that someone with a gun will pull me off the metro and gun me down because of the color of my skin, whether or not my hair is visible to the public, or my religion of choice. All of this means I like having a great big, well-trained, well-provisioned army between me and the people who'd like to change all that.
I know a lot of people don't like the US playing 'Big Brother' with the rest of the world, making sure everyone else plays nice. In order to keep ourselves safe, the only other alternative is to pull all our military forces back and use them to absolutely close the borders. No outsiders allowed in ever again. I'd like to say we could find a middle ground, but history shows that there is no such thing. The UN is a classic example. They shout and chastize, but they have no power to compel or punish, which means they cannot enforce their edicts. Economic sanctions don't work against countries ruled by dictators who don't care what happens to their citizens as long as they stay in power and keep their palaces.
War is never pleasant, never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing.
capitalism...thats the reason...in its very own its a living breathing devil. We gave life to corruption. to greed. Yes i agree, we have "greater opportunities"...because of free trade. But thats the bait... Do a little research, read a few books and you will understand that Corporate America and our philosophy on government has enslaved us through our ideal of "instant" gratification and success and "freedom". it further pushes the gap between the poor and rich. Spreading like a disease across the planet... Know this... it would be impossible for large amounts of people to be wealthy... in comparison to the population of poor. Statistically your odds are higher in falling into the "poor" bracket then the rich. the war is a by-product of our lack of moderation and self governing skills. The people rule government..the government does not rule the people. This has become lost...we are in this situation because we have chosen this fate... YES you choose it, for living in denial and doing nothing.. talk is cheap, want things to change? take action. otherwise you earned the fate before you. This is our new America. we made the choice. Social reform is needed. otherwise this shall be the fate to come for many years ahead. Hell we cant even "stick it" to the man any longer... cause the "man" has even become a slave to our creation. who would have known something non living, non spiritual, something fused from materialistic ideology would hold so much power over us.. something rather..."non existent" and serves no purpose other then that of which we give it holds so much influence over us ...who would have known paper and metals with dead peoples faces on them would rule the world? .. ironic.
the Core of capitalism is profit.
want to know its "enemy"?
Socialism / humanism
Why?
because at their core its about the people and not money.
Sadly people have grown evil in nature and such ideals can not be up held correctly in our world.
so want things to change? stand up. Do something. otherwise sit back and enjoy the ride.
I think continual war serves two purposes. (1) it helps re-elect conservatives (2) it justifies rent-seeking by the military-industrial complex
We are spending BILLIONS on war and we are doing it for PROFIT??? Not in my economics class!
Hey Ell, another interesting thing about when Clinton bombed Al Queda in Afghanistan is the fact that the Republicans at the time, accused him of doing it for political reasons, to distract attention away from the Monica Lewinsky story.
Then they impeach him for lying under oath about a BJ. And then a few years later, Bush pardons Scooter Libby for lying under oath about the compromising of a covert C.I.A. agents identity!
What kind of TWISTED justice/morality is that?
And now those same Republicans have the gall to blame Clinton for the 9/11 attacks, because they say, "He wasn't aggressive enough towards Al Queda when he was president" . . . ???
I can't deny that there are intelligent Republicans, but it's a paradox that I certainly can't explain.
I voted other.
The reason:
Ineptitude and lack of focus. 1. we were attacked, by people operating out of Afghanistan (you know, the same ones that when Bill Clinton tried to actually take them out 11 days after the African embassy bombings, Sen. Coates (R-IN) called on him to resign for attacking them.) 2. The Bush administration, motivated by a combination of personal animus, oil economics and an irrational anger at both Iraq and Iran going back to the 1980's (remember most of the Bush advisors were former Reaganauts.)
So the Bush administration then really believed that we could win this war in a few weeks so they sold it that way. They ineptly fit the intel to their decision rather than fitting their decision to the intel.
And just like anything else Bush touches, the war turned to garbage. Stop and think about it this way: Even if you buy that the surge was a 'success,' then the best thing Bush can claim for a legacy is that he sort of reduced the mess he made on Iraq (thereby leaving the Afghan mess, the economic mess, the health care mess, the international relations mess, the Katrina mess, the energy mess and the national debt mess completely intact for cleaning up later.
This is what happens when you elect a guy with an unrealistic plan 'A' and no plan 'B' for what to do when plan 'A' doesn't work.
YO! B.Efream, Speaking on behalf of all the "leftist nutroots", we appreciate that you would share your point of view, but your condescending insults reveal an intolerance born of insecurity and ignorance.
The reasons for being at war in Iraq have been discussed and debated ad-infinitum. I doubt anybody is going to change anyone else's mind on that war.
I would however ask that you consider the fact that when a countrys economy revolves around a military-industrial complex, then that economy cannot sustain itself for any length of time without wars. Now I'm not saying that ALL wars are unnecessary, but HISTORY shows us that MOST modern day industrialized wars could have been avoided if that had been the objective. But it wasn't. A military-industrial based economy/country will always need wars to survive, and their leaders will always look for reasons to fight and/or create them, or even go so far as to fabricate them from strands of ignorance and bits of ego!
No doubt you've seen and heard this expression before, but I wonder if you've actually ever seriously contemplated it? QUESTION AUTHORITY!
Try this on for size you leftist nutroots. There is a war on because Islamic Jihadis and Fascists have declared and made it so. Since you folks have learned little or nothing about history you will be condemned to repeat the same mistakes made by all spineless appeasers. B.Efreom
The military-industrial complex, which is by far the largest portion of the U.S.
budget, cannot exist without war.
It's all about the money, because that's what capitalism is all about!
I think that one the war is indeed about consolidating the power of the plutocracy. However, I also believe that continual war makes people angry and stupid. And that is exactly what fascists demagogues need in order to seize and retain power, and the wealth that accrues from it.
There are 3 correct answers to the question: Profits, Expansion of power, and Diverting our attention. All 3 are major goals of the Administration.
Unfortunately, the military-industrial complex has a significant positive impact on our economy. This combined with the opportunity to show our strength, the security of thwarting terrorists in the middle east that have proved themselves to be a threat, the assumed responsibility to be a mediator on a global scope, and the initial promise to be seen by the world as liberators to the Iraqi people was enough incentive to the current administration to go to war. Now we're in a situation where it is impossible for us to get out. My vote is for making the world a safe place. And to even have "divert our attention" as an option and implying that the underlying reason for this war is for something more sinister is almost as ridiculous as it having 12% of the votes. Cheney's a freak though.
Misplaced ideology
Ol' Daddy Bush taught some tricks to folks fighting in the Middle East, and son Bush is trying to keep his ol' dad out the global courts, plus war means more money for all the pals of the Bush family.. oh, and when does the Earth run out of crude oil ? better keep that off shore stuff for the US when that time comes.
Other: yes, profits, monetarily, but a great deal of hubris, arrogance & just plain stupidity in the form of miscalculation. we needn't have invaded Iraq, did & are now digging out by furnishing the hole we continue to dig. the worst administration ever to helm the USA @ the most dangerous time in the history of manunkind given its ability to dirtybomb itself into stupefaction.
OIL
I hate to agree with my Christian acquaintances, but it sure looks like sacking the country and immolating its youth will take the US down another notch so it will fit in with the third world countries in a "one world" dictatorship. I thought the same during the Vietnam bleeding.
We are in Iraq because we don't know how to leave. We are in Afghanistan/NW Pakistan because that's where the enemies and bin Laden are.
Let's bifurcate your question.
1. Purpose of war. People mean war to serve all purposes and often achieve none of them when they participate in war.
2. Continual war. People have not yet organized their arrangements with each other to remove the incentive from such wars as people wage today.
That's my vote.
agree with above, plus fear of appearing weak, fear of shiite iran dominating shiite iraq, which would endanger sunni saudi arabia and the emirates along the gulf, the us's biggest client states in the arab world, which now control a good slice of the the us economy. hmmn
have you looked at the movie "1984" lately? you won't see it on the networks or movie channels. why? all war, all the time. that's why i voted for "distraction". i guess i agree the c-hawks weren't looking ahead. at best, they were probably hoping for a pacific occupation, thus providing the necessary distraction while their backers shoveled the nations coffers out to the yacht-enabled.
Even the architects of the war foresaw next to nothing of what has come about. I highly doubt that the people who started this thing were even looking ahead at all. They may have a number of justifications (or infinite ones as they are needed) for it, and pretend that there is nothing really wrong and that we are making progress, but the war, for all intents and purposes, is senseless. It is a senseless waste of resources and life. Maybe it is necessary for us humans to do things like this, but I don't think we should act as if this sort of thing is logical or even intelligible. We should not give undue credit to the people who start wars, because the truth is that Bush and his chickenhawk friends (and their kindred in every period of history) were colossally foolish. They still are, and will hopefully be remembered that way.