Pat, I also understand what you are saying and the values driving your statements. It means that since we live in this wonderful Australian democracy we can make choices that are right for you and right for me. What's the logical conclusion of this worldview driven by autonomous reason?
There is no reason you can stop people making the right decision for them to break into your property and flog whatever they want. I don't share that value, but who am I to stop them in a democratic society that allows choices?
Let's push your worldview to another logical conclusion: Who am I to say that people should not murder human beings and lie about what they did when that is their choice? You may disagree in a democracy but neither of us should be forced to agree that stealing and murder are wrong if democratic values are maintained.
However, why are murder, theft and lying illegal as absolute values in Australia? Because they are wrong, based on God's transcendent standards. There are those who disagree and break the law in our democracy but they suffer just consequences.
You say, 'If you are opposed to the concept of assisted suicide, then nothing will change if it is made legal.' This is a false premise. Introducing voluntary killing of another person into our culture will change the fabric of our culture. If you don't believe me, take a look at what is happening in the Netherlands right now following legalisation in 2002. It started with Drs who could euthanise patients if they were competent, conscious, repeatedly asked for e., and were suffering unbearably as a result of an incurable disorder. What are they up to now? According to Reuters news agency last week the Dutch govt. is drafting legislation to leagalise assisted suicide for people who sense they have 'completed life' (the elderly).
I refer you to retired Australian anaesthetist, Dr Brian Pollard's, assessment of the dangers of euthanasia: Why safe voluntary euthanasia is a myth, available at: https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2011/01-02/why-safe-voluntary-euthanasia-is-a-myth/.
I agree that more money needs to be spent on palliative care. That is one value on which you and I agree. However, autonomous reason in a democracy leads to chaos. We need absolute standards of right and wrong: It is wrong to steal, kill and tell lies.
Pat - 7 years ago
Spencer, I understand exactly what you are saying. The point I am trying to make is that your choices are right for you under your circumstances. Living in a wonderful democracy as ours, means that you have the right to make that choice. There are, however, other people who do not share your ideals and beliefs. They do, however, share the democracy under which you live. This means that hey have just as much right to an opinion and a choice as do you. I would like to refer you to my previous comment about there being a difference between making something legal and making it compulsory. If you are opposed to the concept of assisted suicide, then nothing will change if it is made legal.
As for your reference to palliative care, I, sadly, do not share your optimistic view. In a perfect world, we would have excellent health care for our pensioners, veterans and terminally ill. The sad reality of it is, we do not. Our politicians continually drop the ball on these issues, guess there just aren't many votes in it for them, so we cannot rely on the fact that good care will be readily available. I wish you well in your endeavors to deal with your personal tribulations and sincerely hope that you and your wife get the help you need, but I will remain steadfast in my beliefs as stated previously. All the best top you and yours
Spencer - 7 years ago
The difference is that we are not animals. We are human beings. Promoting the killing of anyone is endorsing a mighty cultural shift.
There are important issues that need to be addressed before becoming gung-ho advocates of killing and assisted killing:
1. What are the possible deleterious consequences for a nation that legalises the killing of people under any circumstances and assists in their suicides?
2. All human beings have a right to life and palliative care during their painful sicknesses and dying years.
3. The medical profession's role is to help control the pain and not organise the death.
4. We need much more detailed discussion on the reasons why killing of human beings should not be legalised.
5. What would a death culture of euthanasia and assisted suicide do to the culture of Australia, especially for those who are vulnerable.
I do not write as a theoretician. My wife is dying of leukaemia and I have 2 severe disabilities. I would never ever place my wife and me in the category of being animals who are so diseased and need to be put down. Life is given by God and he determines when our end should be.
Ronald, in stating that 'you can pray to your mythical god' you have committed an appeal to ridicule logical fallacy. We cannot have a logical discussion on such an important topic as end of life issues when you resort to this fallacious reasoning.
Ronald Spencer - 7 years ago
I agree with Pat If Max was a animal his carers would be prosecuted as for the Liberal Senator Knoll you can pray to your mythical god and suffer if he wishes you to me I will die with dignity at my own hand where I want and when I want
Pat - 7 years ago
If the RSPCA were to forcibly enter your home (which they a legally allowed to do) and found you to be in possession of an animal in such a poor state, you WOULD be prosecuted and yet, we allow humans to suffer. Anyone who took offense at the video should realize that YOUR level of discomfort is nothing compared to what they are inflicting on these poor people. We need to stop and think for a minute about this. Making assisted suicide legal is different to making it compulsory!. If YOU find the thought unpalatable, FINE don't do it. But you do not have the right to impose your beliefs onto another human being. Making it legal will NOT result in more people dying, it will just help them die with dignity. We, collectively, as a society need to get OUR bloody noses out of other people's business
Pat, I also understand what you are saying and the values driving your statements. It means that since we live in this wonderful Australian democracy we can make choices that are right for you and right for me. What's the logical conclusion of this worldview driven by autonomous reason?
There is no reason you can stop people making the right decision for them to break into your property and flog whatever they want. I don't share that value, but who am I to stop them in a democratic society that allows choices?
Let's push your worldview to another logical conclusion: Who am I to say that people should not murder human beings and lie about what they did when that is their choice? You may disagree in a democracy but neither of us should be forced to agree that stealing and murder are wrong if democratic values are maintained.
However, why are murder, theft and lying illegal as absolute values in Australia? Because they are wrong, based on God's transcendent standards. There are those who disagree and break the law in our democracy but they suffer just consequences.
You say, 'If you are opposed to the concept of assisted suicide, then nothing will change if it is made legal.' This is a false premise. Introducing voluntary killing of another person into our culture will change the fabric of our culture. If you don't believe me, take a look at what is happening in the Netherlands right now following legalisation in 2002. It started with Drs who could euthanise patients if they were competent, conscious, repeatedly asked for e., and were suffering unbearably as a result of an incurable disorder. What are they up to now? According to Reuters news agency last week the Dutch govt. is drafting legislation to leagalise assisted suicide for people who sense they have 'completed life' (the elderly).
I refer you to retired Australian anaesthetist, Dr Brian Pollard's, assessment of the dangers of euthanasia: Why safe voluntary euthanasia is a myth, available at: https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2011/01-02/why-safe-voluntary-euthanasia-is-a-myth/.
I agree that more money needs to be spent on palliative care. That is one value on which you and I agree. However, autonomous reason in a democracy leads to chaos. We need absolute standards of right and wrong: It is wrong to steal, kill and tell lies.
Spencer, I understand exactly what you are saying. The point I am trying to make is that your choices are right for you under your circumstances. Living in a wonderful democracy as ours, means that you have the right to make that choice. There are, however, other people who do not share your ideals and beliefs. They do, however, share the democracy under which you live. This means that hey have just as much right to an opinion and a choice as do you. I would like to refer you to my previous comment about there being a difference between making something legal and making it compulsory. If you are opposed to the concept of assisted suicide, then nothing will change if it is made legal.
As for your reference to palliative care, I, sadly, do not share your optimistic view. In a perfect world, we would have excellent health care for our pensioners, veterans and terminally ill. The sad reality of it is, we do not. Our politicians continually drop the ball on these issues, guess there just aren't many votes in it for them, so we cannot rely on the fact that good care will be readily available. I wish you well in your endeavors to deal with your personal tribulations and sincerely hope that you and your wife get the help you need, but I will remain steadfast in my beliefs as stated previously. All the best top you and yours
The difference is that we are not animals. We are human beings. Promoting the killing of anyone is endorsing a mighty cultural shift.
There are important issues that need to be addressed before becoming gung-ho advocates of killing and assisted killing:
1. What are the possible deleterious consequences for a nation that legalises the killing of people under any circumstances and assists in their suicides?
2. All human beings have a right to life and palliative care during their painful sicknesses and dying years.
3. The medical profession's role is to help control the pain and not organise the death.
4. We need much more detailed discussion on the reasons why killing of human beings should not be legalised.
5. What would a death culture of euthanasia and assisted suicide do to the culture of Australia, especially for those who are vulnerable.
I do not write as a theoretician. My wife is dying of leukaemia and I have 2 severe disabilities. I would never ever place my wife and me in the category of being animals who are so diseased and need to be put down. Life is given by God and he determines when our end should be.
Ronald, in stating that 'you can pray to your mythical god' you have committed an appeal to ridicule logical fallacy. We cannot have a logical discussion on such an important topic as end of life issues when you resort to this fallacious reasoning.
I agree with Pat If Max was a animal his carers would be prosecuted as for the Liberal Senator Knoll you can pray to your mythical god and suffer if he wishes you to me I will die with dignity at my own hand where I want and when I want
If the RSPCA were to forcibly enter your home (which they a legally allowed to do) and found you to be in possession of an animal in such a poor state, you WOULD be prosecuted and yet, we allow humans to suffer. Anyone who took offense at the video should realize that YOUR level of discomfort is nothing compared to what they are inflicting on these poor people. We need to stop and think for a minute about this. Making assisted suicide legal is different to making it compulsory!. If YOU find the thought unpalatable, FINE don't do it. But you do not have the right to impose your beliefs onto another human being. Making it legal will NOT result in more people dying, it will just help them die with dignity. We, collectively, as a society need to get OUR bloody noses out of other people's business