To anyone that thinks Cruz won this debate, I suggest you check politifact... just because he can lie frequently and with confidence does not make what he says true
Eugene F. Hari - 7 years ago
I question the results of this poll. Why? My sister is a super-lib. Over the last three days she has received over 13 emails of websites asking her to come to this website and vote for Sanders.
She didn't watch the debate----I did. So, of the 27,000 SANDERS votes----how many came from people who watched, or how many votes came from "liberal website solicitations"?
William - 7 years ago
Does the word overkill come into play? Ted Cruz won the debate by a wide margin!! The breaking point was when Bernie couldn't tell a woman who couldn't afford to grow her business and hire new people "tough luck" with no concern about profit margins at all. Ted pointing out the long waiting lines in socialized countries praised by Sanders and the failures of eastern socialism. Bernie did little more than regurgitate repeated talking points of left wing propagandists.
Regis Spirk - 7 years ago
Bernie Sanders clearly won this debate with facts. I wish the bankruptcies in America were brought to lite,and how the lobbyists for the insurance industry rewards congress for underfunding medicare with campaign contributions and other perks.
David Henderson - 7 years ago
If you want healthcare for all...just quit paying money to all foreign countries..quit letting in illegals and refugees that drain our social systems make Drs and hospitals charge reasonable rates and there you go...more than enough money to pay for free health care..
Andrew Strickland - 7 years ago
Bernie stated no facts all he did was repeat the anecdotal reply more government. Which if anyone fully trust more central government you are wrong.
Karl - 7 years ago
@Holden
Respectfully, you do not know what you're talking about.
1. All other developed countries in the world are not "parliamentary socialist" or "socialist democracies". They are mixed-market liberal democracies, just like America is a mixed-market liberal democracy. The more left-wing developed countries are social democratic (not socialist democratic), and they are still considered mixed-market liberal democracies. That's because all of these developed countries have a mixed market of both public and private goods/services, and they all have free and fair elections. Moreover, these countries can be parliamentary or presidential. Having a presidential model of governance is not mutually exclusive to being a mixed market liberal democracy. These are the official terms used in political science. Your simply calling all other developed countries 'socialist' does not make them so. Regardless, this is not a valid argument for exempting America from having a similar healthcare model as the rest of the developed world.
2. Having a tiered approach to universal public healthcare is a separate debate. The current debate is whether or not to move the ACA towards universal public healthcare or back towards even greater privatization/corporatization of healthcare.
3. You are wrong; universal public healthcare is factually sustainable. The debate is regarding scope and duration of sustainability into the future, not on present-day sustainability. As it currently stands, the vast majority of developed countries have publicly-funded universal healthcare that are not in danger of shutting down. Any assertions about future sustainability are speculative.
"Do you believe that privatized = corporate?"
In the context of American health/insurance/drug companies, then yes, they are for the most part large corporate entities with tremendous aggregate lobbying power. Corporatism is the collusion of corporation and state, and the United States undoubtedly has corporatism.
"Do you really believe that the answer to the US health care problems is as simple as a cut & paste of other countries systems?"
Of course not. Nowhere have I asserted that Americans should simply cut and paste another country's healthcare system. The point of my original question was to test the logic of the anti-universal public healthcare argument.
Simply stated, *if universal public healthcare is so terrible and unsustainable according to some American detractors, then why do the vast majority of developed countries in the world have it, with no significant signs of public outrage and no significant signs of their healthcare model being repealed?* Are the citizens of the vast majority of developed countries in the world uneducated and inept? Are these citizens being forced by their governments into liking their healthcare without the ability to protest their healthcare? Or is it remotely possible that the citizens of the vast majority of developed countries in the world actually like and prefer their universal public healthcare? I'm curious what you think of these questions -- as a Canadian myself.
Kari Larsen - 7 years ago
Bernie was not as polished as Ted Cruz but he is more gut honest and his statements more factual. The truth is the Republicans don't believe health care is a basic human right of living in a civilized advanced society. They see it as a commodity in the capitalist marketplace. As long as health care is a profit based commodity there will be people who can not afford or get access to health services either because it is too expensive or the insurance company does not see a profit in covering certain people. Cruz does not want regulation which forces the profit driven insurance companies to reduce costs of coverge or provide coverage to "unprofitable" people. Where does that leave sick and or poor people? It leaves them I'll, in the emergency room and in an early grave. There is a reason Americans have a lower life expectancy than other developed nations. The health care crisis has been a major factor. Obamacare or the ACA has tried to manage a profit driven insurance system with a government Medicaid expansion so that people who can afford to pay for some or all of their coverage do so and poor people can get Meficaid. In states that fully embraced Obamacare's provisions there are better per capita health outcomes. Many of the red states did not provide Medicaid expansion. Poor people in those states could not afford the profit only insurance. Those people got shafted. The profit insurance carriers struggled in rural areas because there were not big numbers of people to keep up a strong risk pool. Some of those carriers closed down because they couldn't turn a profit. The carrier or two that stuck around had to charge big bucks to their customers. So rural people got shafted too. The only real solution is that poor people in every state and people who live in remote areas need a strong government provided public option for health care. I think there should be basic coverage for everyone. I think a profit model for health insurance means that your health outcomes are determined by your wallet. Young people shouldn't have to pay for coverage they don't need or want, but if anything happens it should be there for them. Adults under 65 shouldn't have to stress about being able to obtain or pay for coverage. They should be abled to get coverage no matter their employment, financial or health circumstances. Republican politicians do not understand this basic human need as translated into a basic human riight which becomes enacted through a Medicare for all type program. How do we pay for this? Targeted taxation, cost reduction in other areas of government, wellness initiatives and incentives for more volunteer paraprofessional and professional outreach in undeserved communities. Medicare for all people. Medicare for all.
Sonko - 7 years ago
Bernie was more sincere. Cruz had facts that seemed accurate....but if you go back and look at all of the "fact check" reports Cruz's statements and facts were false.
Bye - 7 years ago
Bernie is a joke. The role of the government is not to provide healthcare. Healthcare is not a right. It's funny how America is the leading country in the world for immigration but yet we keep wanting to be like the other countries that these people are leaving for a reason.
Bye - 7 years ago
Bernie is a joke. The role of the government is not to provide healthcare. Healthcare is not a right. It's funny how America is the leading country in the world for immigration but yet we keep wanting to be like the other countries that these people are leaving for a reason.
Vince - 7 years ago
lol cruz's facts were so cherrypicked and so devoid of context that only people familiar with actual healthcare issues would be able to discern them from the outright lies and anecdotal evidence.
he brought up stories of bad experiences in single payer. but didnt bother to mention how many people were covered and how many were screwed. he brought up wait times, but refused to mention the amount if time people have to wait compared to the amount of people who cant even get in line to wait. he brought up competition and compared single payer to a lambo, but failed to explain the difference between failing to insure a person who crashed their lambo, and failing to insure a person whose heart could stop at any moment, or could succumb to cancer, or could hit complications during child birth.
he brought up the short falls of single payer, but failed to acknowledge why we had to move away from pure private insurance after the bush years. He also failed to explain how whenever the US healthcare system is compared to all other major industrialized countries, we rank near last, if not dead last, consistently. He fails to mention how wait times and 'rationing' are only ever a thing for cosmetic procedures, and critical procedures are always given top priority. he fails to mention that every other country that has it, has already provided the framework for ours to work, and we wouldn't have nearly as rocky a development phase, since every other country has streamlined this plan to fit their country, and we can pick and choose the details that would work best for our country. he failed to address how costs would even be reduced aside from the 'competition would drive the costs down'. he brought up foreigners coming to america to get medical care, but failed to clarify that they came specifically for highly specialized operations from leaders in the field, and didnt explain how this translated into general care for the everyday man. he failed to mention that it is more often the case that people LEAVE the US to get care abroad, simply because the difference in cost is too great.
cruz can walk on a stage and wave an indiscernable map of america in front of an audience and call it facts, but he couldnt argue against the simple fact that america's health care is literally the worst among the industrialized nations, and that since more than half of americans are currently below the poverty line, most of them would be blocked from receiving critical life saving coverage just from the deductibles, and successfully paying the insurance companies enough for coverage would still financially cripple you.
cruz made side remarks about death panels in single payer, but has no answers for any of the problems except "go back to the old system" where insurance providers literally had death panels, and decided who lived and who died based on who could afford to pay them.
health rationing cannot and should not be based on wealth. because if you can look at anyone from any walk of life, homeless, single parent, disabled, terminally ill, and tell them you cant treat them, but you can give a millionaire a face lift 5 minutes later, then you need to tell everyone that you dont want to provide health services based on the seriousness of their condition, but rather, the size of their wallet.
Holden - 7 years ago
@Karl
I disagree with your no guilt by association in statistical analysis..
More specifically, I am referencing the "Observer Expectancy Effect".
As to specifics that I disagree with....4000 characters is to limiting to cover in detail how the numbers published by the OECD should not be accepted at face value.
You said this is note the place to debate (I prefer discuss). I'd normally would disagree but this format is a bit limiting for a topic so broad.
For example: You and others have asked if other countries can do this, why can't we?
First, you are making an apples to oranges comparrison. The othe countries listed are either parlimentary socialist or just straight socialist democracies. Their systems and laws sacrifice certain rights and liberties in order to be compatible with socialist economic models.
Second, these other countries have not gone full single payer.They each learned to maintain a privatized sector where individuals can pay for premium health care.
Third, The question creates an equivocation that these systems are working and affordable. The economic data argues otherwise. Tax to debt ratios and economic syagnation in these countries is showing that progressive tax policies are not able to "afford" the cost of these programs.
As to your Occam's Razor comment, might I suggest that you go back and "read my first comment". At the end of that comment I point out that we need a non-binary solution.
Problem is that this country has followed the 2 party methodology to the point that every solution has to be a zero sum answer..
I absolutely believe that this country needs to have universal healthcare access.
I disagree with Bernie in that the answer to this is a single payer only system. A free country should be about offering more choices not less.
Question, Do you believe that privatized = corporate?
As to your question about other countries knowing less about health care than the US.
I'm gonna answer that with a question:
Do you really believe that the answer to the US health care problems is as simple as a cut & paste of other countries systems?
Linda E Harrison - 7 years ago
Cruz continuously harped on "access" as opposed to "right" to Healthcare. Sanders was right about having access doesn't mean you can afford something. I am over 65 and have Medicare, I can assure you that it beats the socks off what I had from my employer before. I live in Texas and I have grown children who can't afford insurance and have to do without. Cruz is an outstanding debater, but he evaded answering the questions and quoted irrelevant facts, apropos of nothing. Bernie kicked him all over the place. Bernie WON!!
Keith M - 7 years ago
Anyone stupid enough to think that Sanders won the debate or even sounded intelligent, is a complete idiot! Move out of your parent's basement and grasp reality!
Ted Cruz mopped the floor with Sanders, he had the most accurate and intelligent answers, and he even had the data aka FACTS to back it up. Sanders' entire argument is based victimism and fantasy.
Last night's debate proved 2 major things! 1) Liberals are too ignorant to grasp economics & 2) Ted Cruz should have been POTUS, not the lying NY liberal democrat... or the other lying NY liberal democrat.
Tracy Barnes - 7 years ago
To all those who dont like the ACAand don't want insurance shoved on them: WHO PAYS WHEN U AND YOUR FAMILY SHOW UP AT THE EMERGENCY ROOM FOR A $25,000 VISIT? We the taxpayers and the hospitals thats who. You may as well die because thats where your care ends... when u walk out of the hospital. So, now what you gonna do?
Tracy Barnes - 7 years ago
Bernie knew his stuff and really cares about people. Ted sounds like a used car salesman dodging questions and wasting time. Bernie won the denate without question.
Gus Feldman - 7 years ago
Ted Cruz's main argument was that people should have more trust in Insurance Companies than the Government. No thank you. It's time that the US joined the rest of the world in guaranteeing healthcare as a right for all. The truth is, in America, everyone gets sick, but only some can afford to get well. This is not ok.
MS - 7 years ago
Just to inform the public, I am a physician and the argument that Medicare should be used for everyone is not feasible. I think everyone should have access to healthcare. However, eimbursements from Medicare are very low and continue to decline despite the rising costs of running a practice. Many physicians would retire, close there practices, or simply not enter medicine. It would be a very tough sell to ask our children to attend school for 11-14 years (after high school), assume 200-400 k in debt, pay and contend with malpractice suits, after hours work schedule etc. to receive Medicare payments. The entire system would collapse very quickly. Medicare was intended to aid the elderly- never meant to cover everyone. Our country would have to first change the educational requirements and legal system; then discuss the idea of a public option..
Tim Buck - 7 years ago
Cruz won this pretty easily! It's funny how Bernie and his supporters bitch for equality until it comes to what is in your wallet... according to them if you make more money you are gonna be taxed more... and to pay for this so called free healthcare they are gonna raise taxes even more on the wealthy. In the end that is discrimination... it's not right to make someone that make 10x the income as you to pay 15x the taxes. On top of that healthcare is not a right. Sorry but I do not want the government to be in charge of my healthcare.
Tim Anderson - 7 years ago
Last night's CNN debate proved Republicans are trying to hoodwink people into believing having choice to something you can't afford is better than being able to get it.
Cruz also compared luxury items to healthcare. You know, hey some people can just naturally afford the good ones and some can't, that's the way it goes. Wow. Bernie scolded him on that one too.
B - 7 years ago
Actually, Politifact has already broken down the debate. Cruz was nailed with multiple lies, Bernie had all truths and one half truth.
So there are your facts vs. emotions right there.
Bernie told more facts in the debate vs. Cruz, according to Politifact, and Bernie was found to have told no lies. Cruz was found to have told multiple lies. Politifact. Look it up.
(And Cruz's last lie in the Politifact assessment had to do with stating Bernie helped write the Affordable Care Act. Regardless of what it says about Bernie's statements regarding the matter in the past, we're dealing strictly with what was said last night at the debate. Hence, that false, or lie, falls on Cruz and only Cruz last night.
ArturoCasey - 7 years ago
Zodiac misdirection.
Namcy - 7 years ago
Mandate Obamacare for all of our senators and legislators and their staff and judicial branch and Washington D.C. Beaurocrats ! until government can help fix the veterans care not trust them with more responsibility ! Small business would benefit from tax rebate for giving healthcare to employees not punishments
Marcia Martin - 7 years ago
Ted won! All you socialist have no discerning eye! Ted owned the old hypocritical socialist!
Jeff Suggs - 7 years ago
Cruz got his a$$... Cruz facts>bernies delsuions and emotions!
Bob - 7 years ago
Stop arguing based on feelings. Cruz provided stats, and Bernie provided feelings. If you believe Bernie won it is due to a biased, instead of unobjective opinion. Both did evade questions equally by the way.
Jackson Tribol - 7 years ago
Ted started out rather strong but couldn't keep it up. In the end, I'm just glad that they are working together to actually improve the system. It's too often these days people only shoot for their party and won't work woth the opposition in things they can agree on.
Rex Armstrong - 7 years ago
Republicans should enjoy their 15 minutes of fame. Right now they are overplaying their hand. Have you noticed that House Republicans haven't done fagotz since Trump took control of the WH? 20 executive orders and not ONE bill from Congress to cross his desk for signature. Wait until the 9th Circuit Court upholds the lower court's ruling and Trump loses his first big move to install a Muslim ban. Trump doesn't like losing. When he can't deliver on his promise to bring jobs back to America, that could mark the demise of the GOP for good. Other than Trump, the Republicans have no charismatic leaders.
Haji Punjab - 7 years ago
Let's be honest, Ted Cruz got his ass waxed by a male bimbo in the GOP primary debate, and he was supposed to be a master(de)bater for conservatives. Sanders destroyed him.
Karl - 7 years ago
@Holden
(I'm not the person you replied to)
There is no 'guilt by association' when it comes to statistics. Either you criticize their statistical method or you don't. You saying that 'the government did the research' is insufficient. Show which parts of the statistics you disagree with if you want to debate. Or better yet, let's not debate in the comments section of a poll.
As a non-statistical counterpoint, consider Occam's Razor. The simplest fact is that all other developed countries in the world have universal public healthcare. The United States is the only developed country that still clings to a predominantly privatized/corporatized healthcare model. Do you believe that all other developed countries in the world know less about healthcare than the United States?
I am just dying to have our vets plan. No pun intended.
Holden - 7 years ago
@At Holden
Detailed reply to you last was not posted after I submitted.
High points were to point out that you created an equivocation between Cruz pointing out that Bernies progressive tax wouldn't cover the costs and that Cruz needed to answer why other countries can afford it. I said equivocation because the tax to debt ratios of each of these countries shows that they cannot afford their systems in the long run.
Your statemnts about government run programs being more efficient than private sector programs has little to no evidence to back up the claim. In fact, inefficiency and governmet programs are almost synonymous.
Lastly, you quoted a source for data. The OECD.
A)These are government agencies reviewing their own performance
B)The OECD mission is openly one of social progressivism.(You gotta read past the part about market capitalism and get to the newer mission statements)
C)There is no independent review process for what the OECD publishes.
Point is that your source openly has a bias.
Can't fault you here though. Every data source on health care I've found has been arguably been either a corporate(insurance) study or pro socialized medicine study.
This is why I look at the details and then look up who is funding or behind the publicized data.
Well, super late,
Best wishes
Richard Gerald - 7 years ago
How many times should we vote for Bernie?
Chris Spencer - 7 years ago
Everyone knows Ted Cruz won. Yall are crazy if you actually think Bernie won.
Ozlabog Terrowaxk - 7 years ago
They both kind of talked in circles, but I can't help but feel like Bernie killed Ted Cruz. Bernie was doing his thing and wasn't necessarily trying to make friends. Ted Cruz fell into the same pattern he had during his campaign, empathize, dodge a question, and continue to have the mannerisms of a goblin. Good to see that Sanders is still playing a part in politics as he clearly started something.
Edith - 7 years ago
Ted made sense and also had facts. He was calm because he was sincere in what he was prpoposing. You don't have to be emotional in order to sway people towards you. There is no more lying Ted, he has the facts.
Lavonna Warner - 7 years ago
This is a left-leaning source and all the liberals here know damn well Ted won that debate! eat your hearts out we have The winning argument and you know it ????
Marc - 7 years ago
Objectively speaking, I don't understand how any rational personal could think Cruz "won" the debate.
Jonathan L - 7 years ago
What good are all these facts and numbers and pretty pieces of paper if it's all bull and fabrications that don't add up when checked Mr Cruz. Where's the money come from same place that pays insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies. Other countries pay half what we do with better outcomes and less waited times. That's how you pay because your already doing it but getting screwed instead of single payer lifesaving coverage.Anyone who wants what republicons are offering are either uninformed or on the take .Can you say lobbyists or campaign donation. If you think socialism is so bad don't accept social security pay for your own security no police and pay for your own firefighters and forget schools ect ect. The US is already socialist most corporations are welfare Queens no free market that's for you not them. No money no health care you or your family dies. That's capitalism good for somethings but not everything. Go Bernie!!
Charles - 7 years ago
Bernie won. Ted came prepared with anecdotes and movie references, but he clearly deflects from the reality that the vast majority of leading countries all have universal public healthcare. A bunch of anecdotes doesn't change the fact that the rest of the developed world is laughing at you, Ted.
Heidi - 7 years ago
Bernie is the only one, only one who speaks the truth we all know and live every day. Cruz spewing numbers (which we all know are skewed to benefit whatever-without the opposition truth given) doesn't answer what we all live and deal with in the real world.
Trump's congress wants to sell our public lands and national parks to their friends at a fraction of what their worth. Tell me, will that make America great?
They want to get rid of the education department and public ed, would that?
They want to give even bigger tax breaks to the crooks we had to bail out when they crashed our economy, and eliminate restrictions to keep it from happening again. Will that make us great again?
They want to kick people off healthcare, offer no solutions and cut funding for the arts, how bout that?
They just made it okay for polluters to dump in our streams and waterways. Great yet?
Pretty soon you're going to have to acknowledge that $50 billion dollar wall they want to build with your money won't be to there to keep people out.
CrazyConservativeClown - 7 years ago
The best Health Care is Prayer!
Good Point Jonathan - 7 years ago
@Jonathan - Excellent point. We can subsidize oil, and bail out wall-street but we can't subsidize health care, as other, less wealthy countries can do in order to avoid Social Darwinism.
Dick_cheese - 7 years ago
Cruz won not by a lot but still won
Jonathan l - 7 years ago
Bernie won. Spoke the truth even when it's uncomfortable. Small businesses don't want to pay any benefits let taxpayers pickup tab. Cruz had lots of facts but they were all nonsense. His answer get rid of health care and no more long waites no more high prices no more coverage . Don't want government in the way , Sure private insurers will give you a great deal a plan that covers nothing for twice the cost just like before aca.So republicons can subsidize oil companies but no money for health care. Other countries half the cost much better outcome but America can't do same it's a pipe dream really? Enough with the Republican lies screw the people give everything to the rich you get nothing. But always enough money for tax cuts and subsidies payed by taxpayers. No more lies no more alternate facts. Bernie =truth. Cruz =more misleading double talk with fancy numbers that never ever add up.
left libertarian - 7 years ago
bernie won.
basic healthcare reform is needed, oil the cogs but dont drown them.
keep the machine that is the US running.
reform education to turn 20th century jobs into 21st century.
take religion out of politics
At Holden - 7 years ago
@@Holden: Bernie said where the money would come from - Progressive Taxes. Cruz simply argued he didn't think it would be enough - but he failed to explain then, why it is Finland, and England, and Canada, and every other industrialized nation on Earth can afford it. Also he failed to explain why it is we'll be able to afford health care which costs us twice as much per person.
Let us look at the hard facts: "Data from the OECD show that the U.S. spent 17.1 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care in 2013. This was almost 50 percent more than the next-highest spender (France, 11.6% of GDP) and almost double what was spent in the U.K. (8.8%). U.S. spending per person was equivalent to $9,086 (not adjusted for inflation)."
So if we can't afford a more efficient, socialized system, how are we going to afford a privatized system that is less efficient? The above figures come from the OECD. It shows quite clearly, that far from being more efficient, the privatized system costs more and in many key areas delivers poorer results per dollar spent.
Holden - 7 years ago
Better facts as in detailed analysis and figures of the costs and where the money would have to come from.
If you don't like the term "better facts" then subititute "had more verifiable details" or "had a more detailed argument" or any number of ways of saying that rather than relying on an emotional appeal, Cruz argued the details.
Bernies performace was good dinner theatre but it wasn't a strong "debate" perfomance.
I watch debates to better acquaint myself with the particular details. Emotional appeals do not increase my knowledge of the issue.
Holden - 7 years ago
Better facts as in detailed analysis and figures of the costs and where the money would have to come from.
If you don't like the term "better facts" then subititute "had more verifiable details" or "had a more detailed argument" or any number of ways of saying that rather than relying on an emotional appeal, Cruz argued the details.
Bernies performace was good dinner theatre but it wasn't a strong "debate" perfomance.
I watch debates to better acquaint myself with the particular details. Emotional appeals do not increase my lnowledge of the issue.
David - 7 years ago
Bernie, the delusional communist, is a fit captain for a sinking ship. His idea of Medicare for all is a pipe dream. Medicare faces tens of TRILLIONS of dollars in unfunded liabilities currently. We'd go bankrupt and the solution would be Mr. Sanders waving his magic wand that magically pays for everything. This is a man who praised the likes of Fidel Castro. How's healthcare for the people of Cuba, Bernie? That's your idea of a leader? I almost hope Bernie runs in 2020; ensures re-election for President Trump. I more so hope the Democratic Party is restored with authentic ideas and solutions to the many problems this country faces. But until then, they must purge themselves of the hogwash clotted into the very fabric of the party. They are filled with dishonest people who spin reality to fit whatever agenda they are proposing. When a party bases their messag off of "the feelz" instead of "the realz", it's not only a disservice to those truly looking for clarity on whatever issue it be, it creates an illusion that could forever cloud the gravity of fact.
At Holden - 7 years ago
@Holden what exactly is "a better fact"?
DemocraticSocialist - 7 years ago
Also it is not just Britain: "The study found that 26 percent of 2,002 American adults surveyed said they waited six days or more for appointments, better only than Canada (33 percent) and Norway (28 percent), and much worse than in other countries with national health systems like the Netherlands (14 percent) or Britain (16 percent). When it came to appointments with specialists, patients in Britain and Switzerland reported shorter waits than those in the United States, but the United States did rank better than the other eight countries."
BTW the above is a reference to the same Commonwealth study.
Holden - 7 years ago
Cruz had the better facts, Bernie just had emotional manipulation.
For any of you that want socialized single payer healthcare, a thing to consider. We already have a socialized healthcare system in here in the U.S.A.
Any new system would be modeled upon the existing one.
Now, before you deny that the U.S. has a socialized healthcare system. Just answer this question.....
"Would you want the V.A. in charge of your childrens and your healthcare?"
If any of you answer yes, I'd suggest you review the V.A.'s performance for the past 50 years, or even more.
The answer to our Healthcare problems is not a binary choice. Any country that has been able to make socialized medicine work also allows privatized care for those that are willing to pay for a higher level of care.
My suggestion,.....
We already have free clinics
Also have tons of doctors that paid their way with government loans.
Pay the clinic for an administrator and a couple of senior staff well enough to attract quality personnel. Then institute a an interning system that pays enough to live while automatically making payments on the loans.
Upon completing their intership they can go to private practice or keep working the free clinics. Their choice.
Or, institute selective service and any doctor that completes 2-4 years of civil service has their college loan debt forgiven.
Just some ideas
Brett - 7 years ago
I don't like hearing the whole liberals think everything should be given to them. We just understand that if we were denied health insurance because of a pre-existing condition we'd be furious and in serious trouble. If you're a conservative and you believe you'd be ok with being denied insurance due to your illness you're lying to yourself. It's not hard to understand that premiums go up when insurance companies have to actually treat sick people. Raising premiums so they can still make their insane amounts of profit. Cruz did make some good points but his facts on other countries still occurred her prior to Obamacare. And Cruz again had no answer on how they were going to fix all of these problems.
DemocraticSocialist - 7 years ago
@ the person worried about waiting times:
If people are not able to see a doctor, then the waiting times are worse then being too long.
Also if you are arguing that a Socialistic Health Care system is less efficient, then explain to me why Great Britain's more socialistic health care system has less waiting times then that of the United States according to the "In 2013, the healthcare foundation The Commonwealth Fund examined waiting times across 11 countries, including the US. It reported that in the US a quarter of adults surveyed (26%) said they waited six or more days for primary care appointments “when sick or needing care”. The figure for the UK was just 16%. The US also underperformed on same-day or next-day appointments compared with the NHS – 48% access versus 52%. "
Bernie lost the debate on the ACA when he declared it was absurd in response to LaRonda. Looking her in the face and telling her if she expanded to 50 employees she should be forced to provide coverage at obscene rates was telling. Destroy your business and yourself because it's the right thing to do. WUT?
I cringed for Bernie multiple times.
Liberals hate facts! - 7 years ago
Grow up libturds and stop thinking the world owes you healthcare or anything else because it's never going to happen. If you look at the current poll results on here Ted Cruz is winning by a 10% landslide because the majority of Americans believe in capitalism and personal freedom not socialism and free handouts.
JR Wilson - 7 years ago
Sanders repeated the same factual arguments he is known. Cruz reverted to the newly adopted tactic of invoking alternative facts (lies) that the Trump administration is successfully using to play on the stupidly of certain fellow citizens.
Y'all Really Don't Take the Time to Look Things Up - 7 years ago
The reason Bernie is emotional during the debate is because it is infuriating and saddening that as a "Christian" nation we cannot bear to see tax dollars going to improve the health of our communities. "Well where would this money come from?" Tax increase on the wealthy. If you make over 250,000 dollars year there would be between a 2%-11% tax increase. The highest tax increase being on people who make OVER 10 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. Which I'm pretty sure none of the people on this thread come close to make 250K, much less 10 million. Further, companies do not pay their fair of taxes either and this leads to millions of dollars going into the CEOs pockets. Which benefits no one but themselves.
But aside from that, there would be no premiums or deductibles or essentially any financial responsibility for anyone because it would be payed for by the tax increase. So even if you are on the lower end of the high income brackets, I imagine there would be some savings. Insurance companies are not effective because they are in it for profit, contrary to popular belief, the government is interested at keeping costs low while ensuring the health of the population. We spend roughly 8K dollars per person in America as compared to the UK which is 4K and we have the worst health outcomes compared to any other socialized country. And at the end of the day, when uninsured people go to the emergency room and can't afford it, your taxes end up paying for it anyway. So we could invest in preventive health for everyone to be healthy, or continue paying for expensive, ineffective treatment. I'm not sure about you, but I would much rather pay an extremely small amount so some kid can get their teeth cleaned or an elderly person can get chemotherapy rather than pay to bomb other countries with brand new drones. (Check where your tax money goes, it mostly goes to the military, talk about a waste of spending)
At DemocraticSocialist - 7 years ago
@DemocraticSocialist - true, he missed a point here, but the real argument is that low price doesn't mean it is something we desire. If healthcare is affordable, but the waiting lines are too long and we would have to wait too long for coverage, that isn't ideal. These countries ignore the basic principles of supply and demand.
James Jones - 7 years ago
Ted Cruz lied more than 5 times, and he spun numbers like spiderweb of misdirection in 85% of what he said. It's because of Republicans that Obamacare has all the things that Republicans now are complaining about. Republicans are truly unintelligent, forgetful, uninformed, and unable to look up facts. How can an adult argue with a child going "lalalalala, I'm right because of god" plugging their ears and refusing to face a world- a globalize humanity that needs to work together to succeed. This country has lost its way, and you Republicans supporting a wealthy authoritarian oligarchy are to blame. Learn some compassion, some sense, and think about more than yourselves- your mentality is destroying the world, bit by bit.
Dylan W - 7 years ago
We the people won because we finally had two politicians debate something of substance. But really, Cruz beat Sanders here and I'm shocked to admit that. Bernie rolled out the same thing he always does - it actually didn't even feel like he prepared - the same stories, same issues, same dialogue, and same demeanor. You could ask Sanders to debate the Super Bowl and he would bring up the wealth disparities. Cruz returned to his podium to call out relevant statistics, pulled out a map of counties that are only offered one healthcare provider, and recited numerous facts and statistics he memorized. Maybe he was trying to prove himself after his failed campaign, but he won without a doubt and I never thought he was going to.
Joseph zhou - 7 years ago
It was good debate with real difference, as an immigrant, I lived many places before settled down America, I respect Bernie, he is a true communist, maybe he is truly believe what he is saying, but sadly reality is, even in communist China he is a laugh stick, his pie in the sky, spending other people's money for his social welfare program has no leg, he could not even fool any communists in China and Russia, but here is USA, many young people thought he is their hero, just tell you today's American's psyche
DemocraticSocialist - 7 years ago
The fact that a Socialist can go onto a mainstream media platform, and argue his message, to the support of tens of millions of Americans is a major victory. Bernie won this debate hands down. Ted Cruz may have made some clever remarks at the end, but overall he came off as callous and disingenuous. The fact is he simply had no response to how Finland, Norway, Sweden, and Canada, all with more socialized medical systems pay less and cover more. He said "We have more GDP per capita" but he is confusing cause and effect. We have this because of the legacy of Progressive policies after World War 2, not because of the recent crash-capitalism that has impoverished tens of millions and contributes to our decline.
Pablo Zambrano - 7 years ago
Honestly disappointed with the debate. Maybe we need economists or physicians debating this issue. I am a Berniecrat, but I felt he needed my information rather than emotion. Cruz I admit is a great debater and amazing at misleading with facts. If we can afford Single Payer maybe it's time for RBE
Danny morrow - 7 years ago
And the Cruz missle hits the target again. If you think Bernie won this debate you are the problem. I am from Northern Ireland and even I can see Bernie is all emotion no answer. Simple question...Who is gonna pay for this health care dream Bernie has?
Bill Joe - 7 years ago
Free healthcare for all sounds good till you do your research and understand basic math... healthcare is not a right, period... sorry... Cruz had this one
Hope - 7 years ago
I fully support Bernie's vision of health care in America. Medicare for All and Affordable Prescription Drugs. We should also work to improve the Affordable Care Act not repeal the act and leave Americans without care. Coverage also has to be complete without financial discrimination against pre-existing conditions.
Thank you Bernie, Ted and CNN for this substantive debate.
Peyton Gulley - 7 years ago
Cruz????. Cruz seemed to use better factual info and statistics...the Aca helps a few and hurts a lot...
Liberals hate facts! - 7 years ago
Anyone that thinks Bernie the socialist won is living in fantasy land. Healthcare is not a right and it's not my job to pay for anyone's healthcare just like it's not my neighbors job to pay for mine. Ted used FACTS and under Obamacare insurance companies are making ALOT MORE MONEY while millions and millions of Americans are paying more and getting garbage coverage. Bernie supporters are young and dumb college kids that don't know anything about the real world and that's why Hillary lost in a landslide 306 to 232 and Republicans now control the White House, the senate, the house, 33 out of 50 governorships and 70% of all state legislatures. Your party is dead liberals so stay stupid and keep losing elections it's what you good at!!
Mark - 7 years ago
Sanders won hands down. Cruz conceded in the beginning that they wouldn't have a solution until 2018. He admitted privatized insurers are only after profit but then advocated giving the hen house to the foxes.
jumpboots - 7 years ago
so many delusional Bernie bros actually think Bernie stammering half responses equaled him winning
C Decker - 7 years ago
@ethan Cruz had solid alternate facts. Cruz is feeling the burn. Healthcare for all.
@David Bayard Instead of paying private insurance companies, we would increase taxes. As stated, a majority would have more disposable income after paying healthcare taxes rather than insurance premiums and deductibles.
Biff Smith - 7 years ago
Cruz all the way... I do not want the government in charge of my healthcare. It's funny that people like Bernie thinK the government is good at spending money and will provide good healthcare. Taxation and free handouts will not lead a nation to prosperity
Thomas - 7 years ago
Ted Cruz avoided almost all the questions and used dubious language. He relied on tired "big govt vs. small govt" arguments that don't address the issue of insurance companies. I'm surprised anyone thinks he won.
Kevin T. Dutkowsky - 7 years ago
Bernie clearly won. Ted Cruz watches too much TV.
Ruben Castro - 7 years ago
Obama care a great start to including all americans, 20 million newly covered as Sanders pointed out. Hope whoever is in power keeps them covered. See it as a great opportunity to to progress in humanity!
John Gates - 7 years ago
It appeared Sanders won the debate based on specific answers. With millions signing up for Obamacare now its apparent Cruz crash and burn schenario for Obamacare stats prove otherwise. Ted Cruz in the end was vague at times on specific questions asked. The only thing they could ageee on was the special interest groups dictating both sides on relevent issues.
Dean - 7 years ago
@ethan well apparently you only listened to the facts you liked and didn't listen to any counter argument!
John Tipper - 7 years ago
Bernie is the bomb.
Elizabeth - 7 years ago
This was the 2020 presidential debate preview ! Bernie all the way 'hey if Obama lied what are we gonna say trump did! Treason '
David Bayard - 7 years ago
Bernie still hasn't answered the question about how we are going to pay for his plan
Michael Marten - 7 years ago
I agree with 58% of the country. It's time to move to Medicare For All
Ethan - 7 years ago
Senator Sanders, had some good points, but unfortunately played too much on emotions. When it came to actual issues, and facts, Senator Cruz had solid facts, and sound arguments not playing solely on emotions. Senator Cruz definitely had the better debate with a better argument.
David Hundt - 7 years ago
I am fortunate to have a good paying job and decent insurance through my employer. But I still struggle with medical bills for my family of four. I would love a single payer Medicare for all plan. I feel I would actually be seeing a benifit that directly affected me. I pay a crazy amount of taxes as it is. If they went up slightly and saved me thousands a year in medical cost, I could get behind that.
Damian - 7 years ago
WoW, Ted CRUZ Honestly won! People don't care about the truth any more. It's all about "Left vs Right" "Trump vs Hillary" "Bernie vs Ted" "Rich vs Poor" grow up. It's not a sports team where you choose sides. Do a lot of research of good and bad on the subject and then choose. Bernie has a more attractive character than Ted. We need LESS Government!
Roxanne - 7 years ago
Bernie for the WIN
Rachel - 7 years ago
Bernie Sanders all day every day against anyone.
STEVE - 7 years ago
BERNIE CRUSHED TED CRUZ..., TED CRUZ DIDNT ANSWER THE QUESTIONS, TALKED AWAY FROM THE QUESTION LIKE TRUMP, FAST TALKER...VOTE FOR BERNIE IN 2020....
Bryan Gonzalez - 7 years ago
Bernie kicked ass. Single-payer is no brained at this point. Cruz's religious bullshit hurt him even more.
Drew - 7 years ago
Berries opinions were more opinion based with no facts to back him up. Cruz used facts to make his points and because of that his stance spoke with me the most. I like how he said that the right to healthcare is to choose the plan that is right for you rather than forcing people to accept generic government health care.
Sudesh - 7 years ago
Why is Cruz referencing a movie that is not even a documentary?
Catherine jackdon - 7 years ago
Bernie was terrific, especially in part 2 when they finally discussed expansion of Medicaid; Ted was unctuous and evasive, NOT admitting real solutions.
Thank you, Bernie. Keep it up!
Corinne Pedulla - 7 years ago
Bernie is realistic, Ted is kinda vague and a little nuts. Most young people aren't into religion. People want affordable education and good healthcare to compensate for all the high taxes they pay.
James Thomas Coldiron - 7 years ago
Single-phase healthcare. No one should die because of money.
To anyone that thinks Cruz won this debate, I suggest you check politifact... just because he can lie frequently and with confidence does not make what he says true
I question the results of this poll. Why? My sister is a super-lib. Over the last three days she has received over 13 emails of websites asking her to come to this website and vote for Sanders.
She didn't watch the debate----I did. So, of the 27,000 SANDERS votes----how many came from people who watched, or how many votes came from "liberal website solicitations"?
Does the word overkill come into play? Ted Cruz won the debate by a wide margin!! The breaking point was when Bernie couldn't tell a woman who couldn't afford to grow her business and hire new people "tough luck" with no concern about profit margins at all. Ted pointing out the long waiting lines in socialized countries praised by Sanders and the failures of eastern socialism. Bernie did little more than regurgitate repeated talking points of left wing propagandists.
Bernie Sanders clearly won this debate with facts. I wish the bankruptcies in America were brought to lite,and how the lobbyists for the insurance industry rewards congress for underfunding medicare with campaign contributions and other perks.
If you want healthcare for all...just quit paying money to all foreign countries..quit letting in illegals and refugees that drain our social systems make Drs and hospitals charge reasonable rates and there you go...more than enough money to pay for free health care..
Bernie stated no facts all he did was repeat the anecdotal reply more government. Which if anyone fully trust more central government you are wrong.
@Holden
Respectfully, you do not know what you're talking about.
1. All other developed countries in the world are not "parliamentary socialist" or "socialist democracies". They are mixed-market liberal democracies, just like America is a mixed-market liberal democracy. The more left-wing developed countries are social democratic (not socialist democratic), and they are still considered mixed-market liberal democracies. That's because all of these developed countries have a mixed market of both public and private goods/services, and they all have free and fair elections. Moreover, these countries can be parliamentary or presidential. Having a presidential model of governance is not mutually exclusive to being a mixed market liberal democracy. These are the official terms used in political science. Your simply calling all other developed countries 'socialist' does not make them so. Regardless, this is not a valid argument for exempting America from having a similar healthcare model as the rest of the developed world.
2. Having a tiered approach to universal public healthcare is a separate debate. The current debate is whether or not to move the ACA towards universal public healthcare or back towards even greater privatization/corporatization of healthcare.
3. You are wrong; universal public healthcare is factually sustainable. The debate is regarding scope and duration of sustainability into the future, not on present-day sustainability. As it currently stands, the vast majority of developed countries have publicly-funded universal healthcare that are not in danger of shutting down. Any assertions about future sustainability are speculative.
"Do you believe that privatized = corporate?"
In the context of American health/insurance/drug companies, then yes, they are for the most part large corporate entities with tremendous aggregate lobbying power. Corporatism is the collusion of corporation and state, and the United States undoubtedly has corporatism.
"Do you really believe that the answer to the US health care problems is as simple as a cut & paste of other countries systems?"
Of course not. Nowhere have I asserted that Americans should simply cut and paste another country's healthcare system. The point of my original question was to test the logic of the anti-universal public healthcare argument.
Simply stated, *if universal public healthcare is so terrible and unsustainable according to some American detractors, then why do the vast majority of developed countries in the world have it, with no significant signs of public outrage and no significant signs of their healthcare model being repealed?* Are the citizens of the vast majority of developed countries in the world uneducated and inept? Are these citizens being forced by their governments into liking their healthcare without the ability to protest their healthcare? Or is it remotely possible that the citizens of the vast majority of developed countries in the world actually like and prefer their universal public healthcare? I'm curious what you think of these questions -- as a Canadian myself.
Bernie was not as polished as Ted Cruz but he is more gut honest and his statements more factual. The truth is the Republicans don't believe health care is a basic human right of living in a civilized advanced society. They see it as a commodity in the capitalist marketplace. As long as health care is a profit based commodity there will be people who can not afford or get access to health services either because it is too expensive or the insurance company does not see a profit in covering certain people. Cruz does not want regulation which forces the profit driven insurance companies to reduce costs of coverge or provide coverage to "unprofitable" people. Where does that leave sick and or poor people? It leaves them I'll, in the emergency room and in an early grave. There is a reason Americans have a lower life expectancy than other developed nations. The health care crisis has been a major factor. Obamacare or the ACA has tried to manage a profit driven insurance system with a government Medicaid expansion so that people who can afford to pay for some or all of their coverage do so and poor people can get Meficaid. In states that fully embraced Obamacare's provisions there are better per capita health outcomes. Many of the red states did not provide Medicaid expansion. Poor people in those states could not afford the profit only insurance. Those people got shafted. The profit insurance carriers struggled in rural areas because there were not big numbers of people to keep up a strong risk pool. Some of those carriers closed down because they couldn't turn a profit. The carrier or two that stuck around had to charge big bucks to their customers. So rural people got shafted too. The only real solution is that poor people in every state and people who live in remote areas need a strong government provided public option for health care. I think there should be basic coverage for everyone. I think a profit model for health insurance means that your health outcomes are determined by your wallet. Young people shouldn't have to pay for coverage they don't need or want, but if anything happens it should be there for them. Adults under 65 shouldn't have to stress about being able to obtain or pay for coverage. They should be abled to get coverage no matter their employment, financial or health circumstances. Republican politicians do not understand this basic human need as translated into a basic human riight which becomes enacted through a Medicare for all type program. How do we pay for this? Targeted taxation, cost reduction in other areas of government, wellness initiatives and incentives for more volunteer paraprofessional and professional outreach in undeserved communities. Medicare for all people. Medicare for all.
Bernie was more sincere. Cruz had facts that seemed accurate....but if you go back and look at all of the "fact check" reports Cruz's statements and facts were false.
Bernie is a joke. The role of the government is not to provide healthcare. Healthcare is not a right. It's funny how America is the leading country in the world for immigration but yet we keep wanting to be like the other countries that these people are leaving for a reason.
Bernie is a joke. The role of the government is not to provide healthcare. Healthcare is not a right. It's funny how America is the leading country in the world for immigration but yet we keep wanting to be like the other countries that these people are leaving for a reason.
lol cruz's facts were so cherrypicked and so devoid of context that only people familiar with actual healthcare issues would be able to discern them from the outright lies and anecdotal evidence.
he brought up stories of bad experiences in single payer. but didnt bother to mention how many people were covered and how many were screwed. he brought up wait times, but refused to mention the amount if time people have to wait compared to the amount of people who cant even get in line to wait. he brought up competition and compared single payer to a lambo, but failed to explain the difference between failing to insure a person who crashed their lambo, and failing to insure a person whose heart could stop at any moment, or could succumb to cancer, or could hit complications during child birth.
he brought up the short falls of single payer, but failed to acknowledge why we had to move away from pure private insurance after the bush years. He also failed to explain how whenever the US healthcare system is compared to all other major industrialized countries, we rank near last, if not dead last, consistently. He fails to mention how wait times and 'rationing' are only ever a thing for cosmetic procedures, and critical procedures are always given top priority. he fails to mention that every other country that has it, has already provided the framework for ours to work, and we wouldn't have nearly as rocky a development phase, since every other country has streamlined this plan to fit their country, and we can pick and choose the details that would work best for our country. he failed to address how costs would even be reduced aside from the 'competition would drive the costs down'. he brought up foreigners coming to america to get medical care, but failed to clarify that they came specifically for highly specialized operations from leaders in the field, and didnt explain how this translated into general care for the everyday man. he failed to mention that it is more often the case that people LEAVE the US to get care abroad, simply because the difference in cost is too great.
cruz can walk on a stage and wave an indiscernable map of america in front of an audience and call it facts, but he couldnt argue against the simple fact that america's health care is literally the worst among the industrialized nations, and that since more than half of americans are currently below the poverty line, most of them would be blocked from receiving critical life saving coverage just from the deductibles, and successfully paying the insurance companies enough for coverage would still financially cripple you.
cruz made side remarks about death panels in single payer, but has no answers for any of the problems except "go back to the old system" where insurance providers literally had death panels, and decided who lived and who died based on who could afford to pay them.
health rationing cannot and should not be based on wealth. because if you can look at anyone from any walk of life, homeless, single parent, disabled, terminally ill, and tell them you cant treat them, but you can give a millionaire a face lift 5 minutes later, then you need to tell everyone that you dont want to provide health services based on the seriousness of their condition, but rather, the size of their wallet.
@Karl
I disagree with your no guilt by association in statistical analysis..
More specifically, I am referencing the "Observer Expectancy Effect".
As to specifics that I disagree with....4000 characters is to limiting to cover in detail how the numbers published by the OECD should not be accepted at face value.
You said this is note the place to debate (I prefer discuss). I'd normally would disagree but this format is a bit limiting for a topic so broad.
For example: You and others have asked if other countries can do this, why can't we?
First, you are making an apples to oranges comparrison. The othe countries listed are either parlimentary socialist or just straight socialist democracies. Their systems and laws sacrifice certain rights and liberties in order to be compatible with socialist economic models.
Second, these other countries have not gone full single payer.They each learned to maintain a privatized sector where individuals can pay for premium health care.
Third, The question creates an equivocation that these systems are working and affordable. The economic data argues otherwise. Tax to debt ratios and economic syagnation in these countries is showing that progressive tax policies are not able to "afford" the cost of these programs.
As to your Occam's Razor comment, might I suggest that you go back and "read my first comment". At the end of that comment I point out that we need a non-binary solution.
Problem is that this country has followed the 2 party methodology to the point that every solution has to be a zero sum answer..
I absolutely believe that this country needs to have universal healthcare access.
I disagree with Bernie in that the answer to this is a single payer only system. A free country should be about offering more choices not less.
Question, Do you believe that privatized = corporate?
As to your question about other countries knowing less about health care than the US.
I'm gonna answer that with a question:
Do you really believe that the answer to the US health care problems is as simple as a cut & paste of other countries systems?
Cruz continuously harped on "access" as opposed to "right" to Healthcare. Sanders was right about having access doesn't mean you can afford something. I am over 65 and have Medicare, I can assure you that it beats the socks off what I had from my employer before. I live in Texas and I have grown children who can't afford insurance and have to do without. Cruz is an outstanding debater, but he evaded answering the questions and quoted irrelevant facts, apropos of nothing. Bernie kicked him all over the place. Bernie WON!!
Anyone stupid enough to think that Sanders won the debate or even sounded intelligent, is a complete idiot! Move out of your parent's basement and grasp reality!
Ted Cruz mopped the floor with Sanders, he had the most accurate and intelligent answers, and he even had the data aka FACTS to back it up. Sanders' entire argument is based victimism and fantasy.
Last night's debate proved 2 major things! 1) Liberals are too ignorant to grasp economics & 2) Ted Cruz should have been POTUS, not the lying NY liberal democrat... or the other lying NY liberal democrat.
To all those who dont like the ACAand don't want insurance shoved on them: WHO PAYS WHEN U AND YOUR FAMILY SHOW UP AT THE EMERGENCY ROOM FOR A $25,000 VISIT? We the taxpayers and the hospitals thats who. You may as well die because thats where your care ends... when u walk out of the hospital. So, now what you gonna do?
Bernie knew his stuff and really cares about people. Ted sounds like a used car salesman dodging questions and wasting time. Bernie won the denate without question.
Ted Cruz's main argument was that people should have more trust in Insurance Companies than the Government. No thank you. It's time that the US joined the rest of the world in guaranteeing healthcare as a right for all. The truth is, in America, everyone gets sick, but only some can afford to get well. This is not ok.
Just to inform the public, I am a physician and the argument that Medicare should be used for everyone is not feasible. I think everyone should have access to healthcare. However, eimbursements from Medicare are very low and continue to decline despite the rising costs of running a practice. Many physicians would retire, close there practices, or simply not enter medicine. It would be a very tough sell to ask our children to attend school for 11-14 years (after high school), assume 200-400 k in debt, pay and contend with malpractice suits, after hours work schedule etc. to receive Medicare payments. The entire system would collapse very quickly. Medicare was intended to aid the elderly- never meant to cover everyone. Our country would have to first change the educational requirements and legal system; then discuss the idea of a public option..
Cruz won this pretty easily! It's funny how Bernie and his supporters bitch for equality until it comes to what is in your wallet... according to them if you make more money you are gonna be taxed more... and to pay for this so called free healthcare they are gonna raise taxes even more on the wealthy. In the end that is discrimination... it's not right to make someone that make 10x the income as you to pay 15x the taxes. On top of that healthcare is not a right. Sorry but I do not want the government to be in charge of my healthcare.
Last night's CNN debate proved Republicans are trying to hoodwink people into believing having choice to something you can't afford is better than being able to get it.
Cruz also compared luxury items to healthcare. You know, hey some people can just naturally afford the good ones and some can't, that's the way it goes. Wow. Bernie scolded him on that one too.
Actually, Politifact has already broken down the debate. Cruz was nailed with multiple lies, Bernie had all truths and one half truth.
So there are your facts vs. emotions right there.
Bernie told more facts in the debate vs. Cruz, according to Politifact, and Bernie was found to have told no lies. Cruz was found to have told multiple lies. Politifact. Look it up.
(And Cruz's last lie in the Politifact assessment had to do with stating Bernie helped write the Affordable Care Act. Regardless of what it says about Bernie's statements regarding the matter in the past, we're dealing strictly with what was said last night at the debate. Hence, that false, or lie, falls on Cruz and only Cruz last night.
Zodiac misdirection.
Mandate Obamacare for all of our senators and legislators and their staff and judicial branch and Washington D.C. Beaurocrats ! until government can help fix the veterans care not trust them with more responsibility ! Small business would benefit from tax rebate for giving healthcare to employees not punishments
Ted won! All you socialist have no discerning eye! Ted owned the old hypocritical socialist!
Cruz got his a$$... Cruz facts>bernies delsuions and emotions!
Stop arguing based on feelings. Cruz provided stats, and Bernie provided feelings. If you believe Bernie won it is due to a biased, instead of unobjective opinion. Both did evade questions equally by the way.
Ted started out rather strong but couldn't keep it up. In the end, I'm just glad that they are working together to actually improve the system. It's too often these days people only shoot for their party and won't work woth the opposition in things they can agree on.
Republicans should enjoy their 15 minutes of fame. Right now they are overplaying their hand. Have you noticed that House Republicans haven't done fagotz since Trump took control of the WH? 20 executive orders and not ONE bill from Congress to cross his desk for signature. Wait until the 9th Circuit Court upholds the lower court's ruling and Trump loses his first big move to install a Muslim ban. Trump doesn't like losing. When he can't deliver on his promise to bring jobs back to America, that could mark the demise of the GOP for good. Other than Trump, the Republicans have no charismatic leaders.
Let's be honest, Ted Cruz got his ass waxed by a male bimbo in the GOP primary debate, and he was supposed to be a master(de)bater for conservatives. Sanders destroyed him.
@Holden
(I'm not the person you replied to)
There is no 'guilt by association' when it comes to statistics. Either you criticize their statistical method or you don't. You saying that 'the government did the research' is insufficient. Show which parts of the statistics you disagree with if you want to debate. Or better yet, let's not debate in the comments section of a poll.
As a non-statistical counterpoint, consider Occam's Razor. The simplest fact is that all other developed countries in the world have universal public healthcare. The United States is the only developed country that still clings to a predominantly privatized/corporatized healthcare model. Do you believe that all other developed countries in the world know less about healthcare than the United States?
I am just dying to have our vets plan. No pun intended.
@At Holden
Detailed reply to you last was not posted after I submitted.
High points were to point out that you created an equivocation between Cruz pointing out that Bernies progressive tax wouldn't cover the costs and that Cruz needed to answer why other countries can afford it. I said equivocation because the tax to debt ratios of each of these countries shows that they cannot afford their systems in the long run.
Your statemnts about government run programs being more efficient than private sector programs has little to no evidence to back up the claim. In fact, inefficiency and governmet programs are almost synonymous.
Lastly, you quoted a source for data. The OECD.
A)These are government agencies reviewing their own performance
B)The OECD mission is openly one of social progressivism.(You gotta read past the part about market capitalism and get to the newer mission statements)
C)There is no independent review process for what the OECD publishes.
Point is that your source openly has a bias.
Can't fault you here though. Every data source on health care I've found has been arguably been either a corporate(insurance) study or pro socialized medicine study.
This is why I look at the details and then look up who is funding or behind the publicized data.
Well, super late,
Best wishes
How many times should we vote for Bernie?
Everyone knows Ted Cruz won. Yall are crazy if you actually think Bernie won.
They both kind of talked in circles, but I can't help but feel like Bernie killed Ted Cruz. Bernie was doing his thing and wasn't necessarily trying to make friends. Ted Cruz fell into the same pattern he had during his campaign, empathize, dodge a question, and continue to have the mannerisms of a goblin. Good to see that Sanders is still playing a part in politics as he clearly started something.
Ted made sense and also had facts. He was calm because he was sincere in what he was prpoposing. You don't have to be emotional in order to sway people towards you. There is no more lying Ted, he has the facts.
This is a left-leaning source and all the liberals here know damn well Ted won that debate! eat your hearts out we have The winning argument and you know it ????
Objectively speaking, I don't understand how any rational personal could think Cruz "won" the debate.
What good are all these facts and numbers and pretty pieces of paper if it's all bull and fabrications that don't add up when checked Mr Cruz. Where's the money come from same place that pays insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies. Other countries pay half what we do with better outcomes and less waited times. That's how you pay because your already doing it but getting screwed instead of single payer lifesaving coverage.Anyone who wants what republicons are offering are either uninformed or on the take .Can you say lobbyists or campaign donation. If you think socialism is so bad don't accept social security pay for your own security no police and pay for your own firefighters and forget schools ect ect. The US is already socialist most corporations are welfare Queens no free market that's for you not them. No money no health care you or your family dies. That's capitalism good for somethings but not everything. Go Bernie!!
Bernie won. Ted came prepared with anecdotes and movie references, but he clearly deflects from the reality that the vast majority of leading countries all have universal public healthcare. A bunch of anecdotes doesn't change the fact that the rest of the developed world is laughing at you, Ted.
Bernie is the only one, only one who speaks the truth we all know and live every day. Cruz spewing numbers (which we all know are skewed to benefit whatever-without the opposition truth given) doesn't answer what we all live and deal with in the real world.
Trump's congress wants to sell our public lands and national parks to their friends at a fraction of what their worth. Tell me, will that make America great?
They want to get rid of the education department and public ed, would that?
They want to give even bigger tax breaks to the crooks we had to bail out when they crashed our economy, and eliminate restrictions to keep it from happening again. Will that make us great again?
They want to kick people off healthcare, offer no solutions and cut funding for the arts, how bout that?
They just made it okay for polluters to dump in our streams and waterways. Great yet?
Pretty soon you're going to have to acknowledge that $50 billion dollar wall they want to build with your money won't be to there to keep people out.
The best Health Care is Prayer!
@Jonathan - Excellent point. We can subsidize oil, and bail out wall-street but we can't subsidize health care, as other, less wealthy countries can do in order to avoid Social Darwinism.
Cruz won not by a lot but still won
Bernie won. Spoke the truth even when it's uncomfortable. Small businesses don't want to pay any benefits let taxpayers pickup tab. Cruz had lots of facts but they were all nonsense. His answer get rid of health care and no more long waites no more high prices no more coverage . Don't want government in the way , Sure private insurers will give you a great deal a plan that covers nothing for twice the cost just like before aca.So republicons can subsidize oil companies but no money for health care. Other countries half the cost much better outcome but America can't do same it's a pipe dream really? Enough with the Republican lies screw the people give everything to the rich you get nothing. But always enough money for tax cuts and subsidies payed by taxpayers. No more lies no more alternate facts. Bernie =truth. Cruz =more misleading double talk with fancy numbers that never ever add up.
bernie won.
basic healthcare reform is needed, oil the cogs but dont drown them.
keep the machine that is the US running.
reform education to turn 20th century jobs into 21st century.
take religion out of politics
@@Holden: Bernie said where the money would come from - Progressive Taxes. Cruz simply argued he didn't think it would be enough - but he failed to explain then, why it is Finland, and England, and Canada, and every other industrialized nation on Earth can afford it. Also he failed to explain why it is we'll be able to afford health care which costs us twice as much per person.
Let us look at the hard facts: "Data from the OECD show that the U.S. spent 17.1 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care in 2013. This was almost 50 percent more than the next-highest spender (France, 11.6% of GDP) and almost double what was spent in the U.K. (8.8%). U.S. spending per person was equivalent to $9,086 (not adjusted for inflation)."
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2015/oct/us-health-care-from-a-global-perspective
So if we can't afford a more efficient, socialized system, how are we going to afford a privatized system that is less efficient? The above figures come from the OECD. It shows quite clearly, that far from being more efficient, the privatized system costs more and in many key areas delivers poorer results per dollar spent.
Better facts as in detailed analysis and figures of the costs and where the money would have to come from.
If you don't like the term "better facts" then subititute "had more verifiable details" or "had a more detailed argument" or any number of ways of saying that rather than relying on an emotional appeal, Cruz argued the details.
Bernies performace was good dinner theatre but it wasn't a strong "debate" perfomance.
I watch debates to better acquaint myself with the particular details. Emotional appeals do not increase my knowledge of the issue.
Better facts as in detailed analysis and figures of the costs and where the money would have to come from.
If you don't like the term "better facts" then subititute "had more verifiable details" or "had a more detailed argument" or any number of ways of saying that rather than relying on an emotional appeal, Cruz argued the details.
Bernies performace was good dinner theatre but it wasn't a strong "debate" perfomance.
I watch debates to better acquaint myself with the particular details. Emotional appeals do not increase my lnowledge of the issue.
Bernie, the delusional communist, is a fit captain for a sinking ship. His idea of Medicare for all is a pipe dream. Medicare faces tens of TRILLIONS of dollars in unfunded liabilities currently. We'd go bankrupt and the solution would be Mr. Sanders waving his magic wand that magically pays for everything. This is a man who praised the likes of Fidel Castro. How's healthcare for the people of Cuba, Bernie? That's your idea of a leader? I almost hope Bernie runs in 2020; ensures re-election for President Trump. I more so hope the Democratic Party is restored with authentic ideas and solutions to the many problems this country faces. But until then, they must purge themselves of the hogwash clotted into the very fabric of the party. They are filled with dishonest people who spin reality to fit whatever agenda they are proposing. When a party bases their messag off of "the feelz" instead of "the realz", it's not only a disservice to those truly looking for clarity on whatever issue it be, it creates an illusion that could forever cloud the gravity of fact.
@Holden what exactly is "a better fact"?
Also it is not just Britain: "The study found that 26 percent of 2,002 American adults surveyed said they waited six days or more for appointments, better only than Canada (33 percent) and Norway (28 percent), and much worse than in other countries with national health systems like the Netherlands (14 percent) or Britain (16 percent). When it came to appointments with specialists, patients in Britain and Switzerland reported shorter waits than those in the United States, but the United States did rank better than the other eight countries."
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/06/sunday-review/long-waits-for-doctors-appointments-have-become-the-norm.html
BTW the above is a reference to the same Commonwealth study.
Cruz had the better facts, Bernie just had emotional manipulation.
For any of you that want socialized single payer healthcare, a thing to consider. We already have a socialized healthcare system in here in the U.S.A.
Any new system would be modeled upon the existing one.
Now, before you deny that the U.S. has a socialized healthcare system. Just answer this question.....
"Would you want the V.A. in charge of your childrens and your healthcare?"
If any of you answer yes, I'd suggest you review the V.A.'s performance for the past 50 years, or even more.
The answer to our Healthcare problems is not a binary choice. Any country that has been able to make socialized medicine work also allows privatized care for those that are willing to pay for a higher level of care.
My suggestion,.....
We already have free clinics
Also have tons of doctors that paid their way with government loans.
Pay the clinic for an administrator and a couple of senior staff well enough to attract quality personnel. Then institute a an interning system that pays enough to live while automatically making payments on the loans.
Upon completing their intership they can go to private practice or keep working the free clinics. Their choice.
Or, institute selective service and any doctor that completes 2-4 years of civil service has their college loan debt forgiven.
Just some ideas
I don't like hearing the whole liberals think everything should be given to them. We just understand that if we were denied health insurance because of a pre-existing condition we'd be furious and in serious trouble. If you're a conservative and you believe you'd be ok with being denied insurance due to your illness you're lying to yourself. It's not hard to understand that premiums go up when insurance companies have to actually treat sick people. Raising premiums so they can still make their insane amounts of profit. Cruz did make some good points but his facts on other countries still occurred her prior to Obamacare. And Cruz again had no answer on how they were going to fix all of these problems.
@ the person worried about waiting times:
If people are not able to see a doctor, then the waiting times are worse then being too long.
Also if you are arguing that a Socialistic Health Care system is less efficient, then explain to me why Great Britain's more socialistic health care system has less waiting times then that of the United States according to the "In 2013, the healthcare foundation The Commonwealth Fund examined waiting times across 11 countries, including the US. It reported that in the US a quarter of adults surveyed (26%) said they waited six or more days for primary care appointments “when sick or needing care”. The figure for the UK was just 16%. The US also underperformed on same-day or next-day appointments compared with the NHS – 48% access versus 52%. "
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/25/gp-appointment-waiting-times-in-us-worse-than-nhs
Ted Won.
Bernie lost the debate on the ACA when he declared it was absurd in response to LaRonda. Looking her in the face and telling her if she expanded to 50 employees she should be forced to provide coverage at obscene rates was telling. Destroy your business and yourself because it's the right thing to do. WUT?
I cringed for Bernie multiple times.
Grow up libturds and stop thinking the world owes you healthcare or anything else because it's never going to happen. If you look at the current poll results on here Ted Cruz is winning by a 10% landslide because the majority of Americans believe in capitalism and personal freedom not socialism and free handouts.
Sanders repeated the same factual arguments he is known. Cruz reverted to the newly adopted tactic of invoking alternative facts (lies) that the Trump administration is successfully using to play on the stupidly of certain fellow citizens.
The reason Bernie is emotional during the debate is because it is infuriating and saddening that as a "Christian" nation we cannot bear to see tax dollars going to improve the health of our communities. "Well where would this money come from?" Tax increase on the wealthy. If you make over 250,000 dollars year there would be between a 2%-11% tax increase. The highest tax increase being on people who make OVER 10 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. Which I'm pretty sure none of the people on this thread come close to make 250K, much less 10 million. Further, companies do not pay their fair of taxes either and this leads to millions of dollars going into the CEOs pockets. Which benefits no one but themselves.
But aside from that, there would be no premiums or deductibles or essentially any financial responsibility for anyone because it would be payed for by the tax increase. So even if you are on the lower end of the high income brackets, I imagine there would be some savings. Insurance companies are not effective because they are in it for profit, contrary to popular belief, the government is interested at keeping costs low while ensuring the health of the population. We spend roughly 8K dollars per person in America as compared to the UK which is 4K and we have the worst health outcomes compared to any other socialized country. And at the end of the day, when uninsured people go to the emergency room and can't afford it, your taxes end up paying for it anyway. So we could invest in preventive health for everyone to be healthy, or continue paying for expensive, ineffective treatment. I'm not sure about you, but I would much rather pay an extremely small amount so some kid can get their teeth cleaned or an elderly person can get chemotherapy rather than pay to bomb other countries with brand new drones. (Check where your tax money goes, it mostly goes to the military, talk about a waste of spending)
@DemocraticSocialist - true, he missed a point here, but the real argument is that low price doesn't mean it is something we desire. If healthcare is affordable, but the waiting lines are too long and we would have to wait too long for coverage, that isn't ideal. These countries ignore the basic principles of supply and demand.
Ted Cruz lied more than 5 times, and he spun numbers like spiderweb of misdirection in 85% of what he said. It's because of Republicans that Obamacare has all the things that Republicans now are complaining about. Republicans are truly unintelligent, forgetful, uninformed, and unable to look up facts. How can an adult argue with a child going "lalalalala, I'm right because of god" plugging their ears and refusing to face a world- a globalize humanity that needs to work together to succeed. This country has lost its way, and you Republicans supporting a wealthy authoritarian oligarchy are to blame. Learn some compassion, some sense, and think about more than yourselves- your mentality is destroying the world, bit by bit.
We the people won because we finally had two politicians debate something of substance. But really, Cruz beat Sanders here and I'm shocked to admit that. Bernie rolled out the same thing he always does - it actually didn't even feel like he prepared - the same stories, same issues, same dialogue, and same demeanor. You could ask Sanders to debate the Super Bowl and he would bring up the wealth disparities. Cruz returned to his podium to call out relevant statistics, pulled out a map of counties that are only offered one healthcare provider, and recited numerous facts and statistics he memorized. Maybe he was trying to prove himself after his failed campaign, but he won without a doubt and I never thought he was going to.
It was good debate with real difference, as an immigrant, I lived many places before settled down America, I respect Bernie, he is a true communist, maybe he is truly believe what he is saying, but sadly reality is, even in communist China he is a laugh stick, his pie in the sky, spending other people's money for his social welfare program has no leg, he could not even fool any communists in China and Russia, but here is USA, many young people thought he is their hero, just tell you today's American's psyche
The fact that a Socialist can go onto a mainstream media platform, and argue his message, to the support of tens of millions of Americans is a major victory. Bernie won this debate hands down. Ted Cruz may have made some clever remarks at the end, but overall he came off as callous and disingenuous. The fact is he simply had no response to how Finland, Norway, Sweden, and Canada, all with more socialized medical systems pay less and cover more. He said "We have more GDP per capita" but he is confusing cause and effect. We have this because of the legacy of Progressive policies after World War 2, not because of the recent crash-capitalism that has impoverished tens of millions and contributes to our decline.
Honestly disappointed with the debate. Maybe we need economists or physicians debating this issue. I am a Berniecrat, but I felt he needed my information rather than emotion. Cruz I admit is a great debater and amazing at misleading with facts. If we can afford Single Payer maybe it's time for RBE
And the Cruz missle hits the target again. If you think Bernie won this debate you are the problem. I am from Northern Ireland and even I can see Bernie is all emotion no answer. Simple question...Who is gonna pay for this health care dream Bernie has?
Free healthcare for all sounds good till you do your research and understand basic math... healthcare is not a right, period... sorry... Cruz had this one
I fully support Bernie's vision of health care in America. Medicare for All and Affordable Prescription Drugs. We should also work to improve the Affordable Care Act not repeal the act and leave Americans without care. Coverage also has to be complete without financial discrimination against pre-existing conditions.
Thank you Bernie, Ted and CNN for this substantive debate.
Cruz????. Cruz seemed to use better factual info and statistics...the Aca helps a few and hurts a lot...
Anyone that thinks Bernie the socialist won is living in fantasy land. Healthcare is not a right and it's not my job to pay for anyone's healthcare just like it's not my neighbors job to pay for mine. Ted used FACTS and under Obamacare insurance companies are making ALOT MORE MONEY while millions and millions of Americans are paying more and getting garbage coverage. Bernie supporters are young and dumb college kids that don't know anything about the real world and that's why Hillary lost in a landslide 306 to 232 and Republicans now control the White House, the senate, the house, 33 out of 50 governorships and 70% of all state legislatures. Your party is dead liberals so stay stupid and keep losing elections it's what you good at!!
Sanders won hands down. Cruz conceded in the beginning that they wouldn't have a solution until 2018. He admitted privatized insurers are only after profit but then advocated giving the hen house to the foxes.
so many delusional Bernie bros actually think Bernie stammering half responses equaled him winning
@ethan Cruz had solid alternate facts. Cruz is feeling the burn. Healthcare for all.
@David Bayard Instead of paying private insurance companies, we would increase taxes. As stated, a majority would have more disposable income after paying healthcare taxes rather than insurance premiums and deductibles.
Cruz all the way... I do not want the government in charge of my healthcare. It's funny that people like Bernie thinK the government is good at spending money and will provide good healthcare. Taxation and free handouts will not lead a nation to prosperity
Ted Cruz avoided almost all the questions and used dubious language. He relied on tired "big govt vs. small govt" arguments that don't address the issue of insurance companies. I'm surprised anyone thinks he won.
Bernie clearly won. Ted Cruz watches too much TV.
Obama care a great start to including all americans, 20 million newly covered as Sanders pointed out. Hope whoever is in power keeps them covered. See it as a great opportunity to to progress in humanity!
It appeared Sanders won the debate based on specific answers. With millions signing up for Obamacare now its apparent Cruz crash and burn schenario for Obamacare stats prove otherwise. Ted Cruz in the end was vague at times on specific questions asked. The only thing they could ageee on was the special interest groups dictating both sides on relevent issues.
@ethan well apparently you only listened to the facts you liked and didn't listen to any counter argument!
Bernie is the bomb.
This was the 2020 presidential debate preview ! Bernie all the way 'hey if Obama lied what are we gonna say trump did! Treason '
Bernie still hasn't answered the question about how we are going to pay for his plan
I agree with 58% of the country. It's time to move to Medicare For All
Senator Sanders, had some good points, but unfortunately played too much on emotions. When it came to actual issues, and facts, Senator Cruz had solid facts, and sound arguments not playing solely on emotions. Senator Cruz definitely had the better debate with a better argument.
I am fortunate to have a good paying job and decent insurance through my employer. But I still struggle with medical bills for my family of four. I would love a single payer Medicare for all plan. I feel I would actually be seeing a benifit that directly affected me. I pay a crazy amount of taxes as it is. If they went up slightly and saved me thousands a year in medical cost, I could get behind that.
WoW, Ted CRUZ Honestly won! People don't care about the truth any more. It's all about "Left vs Right" "Trump vs Hillary" "Bernie vs Ted" "Rich vs Poor" grow up. It's not a sports team where you choose sides. Do a lot of research of good and bad on the subject and then choose. Bernie has a more attractive character than Ted. We need LESS Government!
Bernie for the WIN
Bernie Sanders all day every day against anyone.
BERNIE CRUSHED TED CRUZ..., TED CRUZ DIDNT ANSWER THE QUESTIONS, TALKED AWAY FROM THE QUESTION LIKE TRUMP, FAST TALKER...VOTE FOR BERNIE IN 2020....
Bernie kicked ass. Single-payer is no brained at this point. Cruz's religious bullshit hurt him even more.
Berries opinions were more opinion based with no facts to back him up. Cruz used facts to make his points and because of that his stance spoke with me the most. I like how he said that the right to healthcare is to choose the plan that is right for you rather than forcing people to accept generic government health care.
Why is Cruz referencing a movie that is not even a documentary?
Bernie was terrific, especially in part 2 when they finally discussed expansion of Medicaid; Ted was unctuous and evasive, NOT admitting real solutions.
Thank you, Bernie. Keep it up!
Bernie is realistic, Ted is kinda vague and a little nuts. Most young people aren't into religion. People want affordable education and good healthcare to compensate for all the high taxes they pay.
Single-phase healthcare. No one should die because of money.