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@Kelly O, 1st Megan
Yeah it's awesome. I listen to as much of it as I can before I answer. ha
Well...
Anywho. Bobby won. =]
♥
Di, I think Dean's so-called ultimatum was a last desperate plea to Sam not to go. He made that plea after his brother choked him so no I don't think he had given up. He just didn't know what more he could do. He used if in his ultimatum something John did not do when he issued his. It was over something much more than going off to school. It was about losing his soul.
I think a lot of people, Bobby and Sam especially, don't take into consideration that Dean went to hell. He knows what it is like. He doesn't want his brother ending up there. That's why he drew his line in the sand - his brother die human.
Now Sam has as much as said he knows what he's doing is wrong but he is going to sacrifice himself to kill Lillith. What argument is there to that. What can he over except to go with him to kill her - if Ruby is left behind. I don't think Dean had given up so much as not knowing what else could be done to make Sam see reason.
As for Bobby's words being repeated by Dean. Dean has stated similar things to Sam in the past. I think it was Dean being Dean. Even if he was repeating some of what Bobby said, it still doesn't mean Bobby's method of delivery was right.
I think with me it is the comparison between what Bobby said in AHBL2 and what he said this time. That time he was upset that Dean didn't think he was worth anything, that he didn't think his life meant anything without Sam. Now he as much as tells him that he needs to put everything, including stopping the Apocalypse, to go after Sam. The same Sam who wouldn't listen just hours earlier when Dean offered to go with him.
I didn't hear any words from Bobby about how Dean was supposed to make Sam listen. Was he supposed to work with Ruby suddenly even though Sam doing so was what started his demon blood addiction? Just what was Bobby suggesting Dean do? I didn't hear him offering any advise. He just told Dean to suck it up and go after Sam. I guess we are to presume he is supposed to go along with whatever Sam wants, since Sam will just walk away again if he doesn't.
In essence Bobby is saying, work with Ruby if that's what Sam wants, let Sam drink demon blood if that's what he wants, don't try to reason with him again or you'll drive him away. Those aren't words of wisdom. Dean knows what happens to a soul that ends up in hell. Why would he want to go and help his brother to do things that will send him there.
I think Dean doesn't know how to save Sam from himself. And Bobby wasn't offering any suggestions or advice. That's why I didn't see this conversation as offering any words of wisdom.
However as I originally said, I voted for Bobby because a lot of the chosen scenes used for the different categories weren't the best. I felt the scene for meltdown shouldn't have shown as much Bobby and Dean and more of Sam's hallucinations (either young Sam or his mother for example - or maybe his flying about the room). So I voted for the thought not the scene.
If I had voted for the scene I would have voted for OTH even though I have never seen an episode of the show. I liked the message the teacher (Haley I guess) gave to her students and how she didn't back down to the authority figure trying to make her do something she felt was wrong.
I love SPN with a passion. It is the only show I watch regularly but there have been some clunker scenes down through years. IMO this scene is one of them as is the scene in YF where Bobby and Sam seemed to show no urgency in saving Dean even though there was only two hours left. I blamed the writers in that scene and I blame them in this one along with the director. I think Jim Beaver is a good enough actor he could have toned down the over-the-top feeling of the scene if the director had allowed it.
Wow thanks Di. :] That made my day... lol
Our family rocks. haha go SPN!!
♥
Di, I could not have put it better myself. The fact that we can have these long, drawn-out explanations for our opinions on this show just brings to light all these people who are so absolutely passionate about the Supernatural world. I love it. Even if people don't agree with what I have to say, or if I don't agree with them, we are all still united in our absolute love of this show. Oh, to be a part of the Supernatural family!
GO, TEAM BOBBY!
WOW! What an incredibly polarizing subject! I just have to add that, while you make a good argument, robijean, it's not the most compelling. I think Kelly O. said it best. Dean HAD thrown in the towel after Sam refused to ditch Ruby, almost strangled him to death, and then walked out the door without looking back. I too believe Dean had had enough at that point--you could see it in his face and hear it in his voice--and I don't think cooling down would have fixed the situation this time. Sam rejected him for a DEMON and then tried to kill him--a deal breaker in my books particularly since Dean had gone to HELL for his brother. It WAS Bobby's words that talked some sense into Dean because like 1st Megan said, when he apologized to his brother he was repeating similar words about family that Bobby had explained. And yes, Bobby had to yell. Bobby had been kind and fatherly and patient with Dean all along, and it didn't work. He needed to get Dean's attention by yelling, something he rarely ever did. And by yelling, Dean realized just how upset and serious Bobby was about the situation. After he got Dean's attention, he spoke more calmly again, as Kelly O. pointed out, and made his beautiful and loving point that Dean was a better man this his father had ever been. What a compliment! And Dean knew that was a magnificent compliment because hadn't he himself idolized his father for most of his life? And hadn't he recently started to rethink the idea of who he thought his father had been and who he really was? I can't think of Bobby saying anything more profound to him than that. Come ON! This is the most incredible personal journey I've ever seen on TV! Honestly, these emotional conflicts are way more compelling than the demon/angel conflict. Not only is Dean battling the forces of Hell, but he's battling himself as well, and trying single-handedly to save his brother's soul at the same time! And who's always there to give him a little push or nudge or--wait for it--word of widsom when he needs it most? BOBBY, 'ya idjits!' Bobby may not have the best way of expressing things, but he always does it with pure love. And if Dean loves him, that's good enough for me! Now we just need him to yell at Sam to set HIM straight!
How we SPN fans ADORE our show, eh? I don't think any of the other CW soap operas could even BEGIN to garner this much debate and passion among such an obviously diverse fandom. I'm so happy and proud to be counted among you and over such an epic series. This show is SO overlooked it's nearing Apocalyptic proportions. Everyone who works on the show, including our boys Jensen and Jared and Jim, care about it so much and you can tell by how much WE all care. We feel their passion for the show and it's contagious. I LOVE ALL OF YOU SPN FANS! WE ROCK!
I don't usually comment but I've seen some pretty nasty responses to comments. I voted for SPN only because I felt they picked the wrong scene for this category like they have for so many others. If I had voted for this scene I would not have voted for SPN since I didn't consider what Bobby said or how he said it anything close to words of wisdom.
I had a problem with Bobby's speech because of the tone. If they put the most insulting lines he spoke to make it humorous the writers made a mistake and had Bobby very out of character. However, I also found him out of character in Yellow Fever, so I'm not sure what that means.
I found the comments insulting to Dean because they were unnecessary and mean. The same could have been conveyed without the berating and yelling. Bobby could have reached Dean without sounding Sam has in so many episodes this season.
We never saw Dean complain or open up like this to Bobby before - not about hell, not about Sam. So the first time he let's his shields down and tells Bobby how discouraged he is, he gets this over-the-top response. Where was the reasonable tone telling him he doesn't mean what he's saying, that he knows later on he will regret it if he doesn't take action to help Sam. That's the way to remind Dean that Sam is family, not by tearing him down but reminding him how he feels about family.
I don't think Dean can't take harsh words, he's been dealt them throughout his life. I just don't think Bobby needed them to make his point. Words of wisdom also include not just the message but how it is conveyed. Someone yells at me like that and I am less apt to listen than if they talk to me in a reasonable tone without insulting comments. So not words of wisdom either in tone or content.
Dean shared with Sam, he gets a boo hoo line from him. He confides his feelings to Bobby and gets the same thing. If I was him I'd close down and never share my feelings with anyone again. The two people he trusted most, the two people he thought he could talk to, both shot him down for his feelings with insults. Bobby could have gotten his point across without them, for some reason he chose not to.
I also don't think he or his comments are the reason, Dean called Sam from the green room. We saw Dean do the same thing in Scarecrow. Dean just needed a little time before he would act. He also was worried sick about stopping the Apocalypse. Bobby just days before was all for letting Sam go back on demon blood to act as their weapon in order to stop it. Now this week Dean has to stop worrying about that and help save Sam. Why the change of opinion. Not words of wisdom to me when you keep giving conflicting messages. Is stopping the Apocalypse more important than saving Sam? Bobby took both positions in days. Which words of wisdom was Dean supposed to follow.
As for him telling Dean to not push Sam away and Dean not doing so. That is nonsense. Dean was willing to follow Sam's lead, to go with Sam. His only requirement was leaving Ruby behind. Sam wouldn't do that.
Dean still believes in Sam's essential goodness and starts making excuses for Sam. He said it was the demon blood causing Sam to act like he was and doing the things he's been doing. He blamed the addiction not his brother.
Then Sam tells him, it's not the blood, I'm in control. Then and only then did Dean make the statement he did about Sam. And he still couched it in a way that showed he didn't believe Sam about being in control. He tried to make Sam see that choosing to do those things was monstrous. His statement wasn't about his powers but rather with his choice of actions. IMO it sounded like he didn't really believe Sam was in control and making his own choices. He was still making excuses for Sam in his mind. He also had tears in his eyes when he was finally pushed by Sam to finish his statement. I don't think Sam gave him a choice at that point. Sam would not leave Ruby behind and that was the deal breaker for D
omg its a draw, c mon keep voting for Bobby, doesnt matter, just remember
for what hes done for those boys and he was just being honest to dean telling him to step up and be a better man and if he didnt say those words to him DEAN WOULDVE SHUT SAM OUT FOR GOOOD!! i loved those words he said, Deans face changed when Bobby started speaking and he listened and understoood,
love Dean and Sam
go supernatural!
lol Hallelujah!
Amen to that, Kelly O!!!
Gandalf + Dumbledore + Completely Awesomeness - Magic + Crap Load of Knowledge + A Huge Selection of Weaponry = Bobby BAMF Singer
♥
I would hardly call this "blind loyalty." I know he's human. He makes mistakes. He's not God or anything. We saw that in Are You There, God? It's Me, Dean Winchester when those girls were attacking him 'cause he didn't save them. We know he's not some infallible presence on the show. But he's wise. Very wise. He's like the Winchester's Dumbledore. Or Gandalf. Just on a smaller scale.
It drives me nuts when people refer to his speech as a "mistake." He was definitely harsh and abrupt with Dean, I'll admit. And in any other circumstance, I'd be angry with him, too. But at the time, tensions were high, Sam had just left, and Dean was (understandably) ready to leave Sam in the dust and go stopping the Apocalypse on his own. If Bobby hadn't stepped in, the end of the episode would have been a whole heck of a lot different. You heard it in Dean's voicemail when he said, "We're brothers, you know? We're family. No matter how bad it gets, that doesn't change." That definitely sounds reminiscent of what Bobby had said to him earlier, eh? Especially considering the fact that earlier, Dean admitted he wasn't even sure Sam was his brother anymore, or if he ever was to begin with. That kind of a turn-around doesn't just happen in that short span of time. It's almost as if someone has stepped in and given him a swift kick in the rear.... Oh, wait!
Sure, the writers wrote the yelling and the "stupid, stupid son of a bitch. Well, boo-hoo, I'm so sorry your feelings were hurt, Princess" stuff to be funny. Which it was. I laughed. But of course there's a deeper meaning behind it! In that episode, where there was so much depth everywhere you looked, and where it was placed in the episode (the first time we see Dean since the end of WTLB after Sam walked out on him), they wouldn't have simply thrown that yelling-fest in there purely for comedic purposes. All throughout the show, there are times when they use comedy to spice up the pages while still maintaining a deeper meaning behind everything.
To insinuate that Bobby's speech was only for laughs is, as you'd say, "absurd."
@Amy
Maybe you aren't reading ENOUGH into his words. What do you think motivated Dean into calling Sam's cell phone to apoligize? And before Dean ran off to go look for Sam, Bobby had specifically told Dean to not push him away. Dean went and called Sam a monster and did just that. Bobby realized the only way he was going to get through to him was raising his voice. I think Dean was seriously throwing in the towel on ever forgiving or helping his brother again. Now didn't John do the same thing? He left everything up to Dean. Everyone seemed to give up on Sam, even Sam himself did, but Bobby wasn't about to let the only person who had ever been there for Sam to give up on him too. I think his words were wise. But everyone seems to be only paying attention to the yelling part. What about the end of his lecture? "You're a better man than your daddy ever was. So do us both a favor, don't be him." Start off strong and then make your point in a calm manner at the end. I liked Bobby's stradegy and I mean cmon, have you ever seen Bobby that angry at Dean before? I think Bobby did that on purpose to show just how serious he was about the situation. The apocalypse is about to happen and Bobby saw that their forces were divided, Dean and Sam really needed to be on the same side and Bobby made that clear.
Now I truly didn't mean any harm nor did I write this with ill-intent.
I'm a little bit surprised at the intolerance of SPN fans at differing opinions. Oh wait, no, I'm not! It's so typical of this fandom. I love Bobby, but I will not vote for him in this case. I don't think he spoke words of wisdom at all. I think many people simply view Bobby as above any criticism. Well, he's not. He's only human and he can make mistakes too.
Saying what he did to Dean was pretty absurd, to be honest. In an interview I saw with Jim Beaver, he said they thought it would be funny. Did any of you find it funny, considering you give his words this very deep meaning? Obviously you read more into it then the writers intended. So at the end of the day, those words were just silly. If Bobby wins this poll, it would not be because of these words, but because people voted simply because it's Bobby. Blind loyalty CAN be that stupid.
No way, Amber! Oh, I'm jealous! That's amazing! Ha ha ha.
@Amber
Haha it's your ringtone?? That's awesome. Like seriously. I give you props.
For those who left comments in support of Bobby thank you. I couldn't have said it better. Oh by the way I even cued up the clip of Bobby chewing Dean out and then recorded it on my phone. It's now the ringtone when my mom calls. Okay, so anyway my vote went to Bobby obviously.
omg i love 1st megan lol. i'm really happy you put it terms that prove our arguement cause i was just PO that i didn't bring too many valid points. but you definitley understand :)
WHOA MAN! Hold up!
This poll has sparked SO much controversy! Man alive!
Okay, 2nd Megan? "Telling someone that family is supposed to make you miserable, are NOT words of wisdom. It's friggin' stupid, to say the least." Do you even know what Bobby meant by that? He was implying that family does stupid things to each other all the time, things that hurt us, make us sad, angry, whatever, but we forgive them because they're family. Bobby completely understands the importance of family. He always has. You've heard him - "Family don't end with blood, boy" or "I love that boy like a son."
And "But I guess that's what you'll tell your sister when she complains about her husband abusing her, right?" has no place in this argument. None whatsoever. Nice try at a parallel, though.
wait!!! wtf even worse Mia?!?! wtf is she talking about? i have some words of wisdom for her! kiss my _____(fill in the blank)
thank you for agreeing with me! megan should've kept her comment to herself. lol
"get real people" is that megan serious? maybe she should get real
yeah! i with you guys!!! i hate her too!!! she doesn't even understand! she shouldn't even be a spn fan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
i'm with kelly O. so iwas talking to the 2nd megan obviously
@Other Megan
Apparently you don't have a sense of humor. And if your family never makes you miserable at least ONCE in a while then hey, I congratulate you on a stepford upbringing. Good for you. Bobby meant for Dean to snap out of his stupor and realize he can't ever give up on Sam. Cause no matter how bad Sam screws up and makes Dean's life 'miserabe', he is still Dean's family. Dean just needed someone or in this case Bobby, to set things straight again for him. Bobby needed to make a point and he definately made it here.
@Other megan also... are you stoopid?! Booby has always been there to give the boys advice? and as much as i was with dean not letting his brother be a "monster" Bobby had every right to yell at him. Bobby's advise should be thee only advice the boys follow. because he always has their best interest in mind. And not to mention the F-en apacolyspe is starting. so seriously you shouldn't have even posted your comment. I Am VERY ANGRY RIGHT NOW!!!!! VERY ANGRY!
@Megan...you're missing the point. This poll doesn't ask us to vote for Bobby as the "best thing to ever happen to those boys". If it did, I would have voted for him.
Instead, it asks us to vote for words of WISDOM. Telling someone that family is supposed to make you miserable, are NOT words of wisdom. It's friggin' stupid, to say the least. But I guess that's what you'll tell your sister when she complains about her husband abusing her, right?
Get real, people!
I'm honestly embarrassed by people's stance against Bobby here. Embarrassed.
I already wrote a huge comment on the other page, so I'm not gonna bother writing something huge here. But I'll say something.
Had they not been on the brink of Apocalypse, I really don't think Bobby would have been so frustrated with Dean. But, as it was, they were right on the edge of the World's End. Bobby had to snap Dean out of his funk quickly. What he said was harsh, yes. But it was necessary. What he said was not, by any means, a "mistake" on his part. Hell, I was yelling at Dean, too! I love Dean, don't get me wrong. And I completely understand why he was gonna just leave Sam on his own. But I still feel like what Bobby said was completely and utterly justified in his rant.
I'm so sick of people being so angry at him for yelling at Dean. I honestly had no idea that this kind of animosity existed until this poll opened. Everyone I've talked to have been fans of Bobby all along, especially during Lucifer Rising.
During that episode, I literally cheered for Bobby. Whoops and yells and all.
Bobby is the greatest thing that ever happened to those boys, and I love him with all my heart.
I am SO glad to see that Supernatural fans are voting sensibly here. This award is not for Bobby's general track-record, guys. It's for WORDS OF WISDOM!! And his words to Dean were anything BUT!
Sam had just CHOKED Dean, after a whole season of treating him like his inferior, and after swearing allegiance to God and the angels ONLY ot save Sam - and Dean didn't have a right to be upset??? PUHLEAAAAASE!! Bobby was telling Dean to just go on sacrificing himself for Sam, to yet again put Sam before himself, and just suck it up. Forgive me, but that is NOT what family is about. It was Bobby's worst moment ever!! That it was Bobby's only mistake, doesn't matter. We're voting for THIS! Or not, because I certainly gave MY vote to OTH!!
VOTE BOBBY!! (SUPERNATURAL)
yah one tree hill is in the lead go oth! don't listen to haters
Haley James Scott, Nor arguments necessary!!!
Bobby Singer is a smart guy - he gets my vote!
Hey! Totally agree with Anna and Di on this. Bobby rulez coz if Dean and Sam love him and stick by him all the time that should be enough for the fans. So if your real fans and really love the boys then you should vote for Bobby!
Is that what this is about? Bobby is losing because of the fact that he kicked Dean's ass in Lucifer Rising?
Bobby had the absolute RIGHT to kick Dean's ass! Angel Anna is correct in everything she said. Bobby has become the boys' father-figure, like it or not. In fact, he has been there for them in ways that their real dad never was. Didn't the fact that John had a third younger son that the boys had never heard of explain that? That he took that kid to a baseball game and had never done so for his own boys? He dragged Dean and Sam all over the damn country and raised them as soldiers. Sure, he loved them, but did he do right by them? Hasn't all the heartache they've been through tell you how WRONG he did? Anything Bobby says and does for those boys is purely out of fierce LOVE for them. And they, at least certainly Dean, love him back with equal fierceness. He's their support system. He's the one they have to turn to for advice and weapons and a safe place to stay and even grieve. No matter what happens, Bobby has NEVER wavered in his support for the Winchester brothers. John was never there for his boys the way Bobby has been. Dean loved his father but mostly obeyed him, and if you hadn't noticed, he has begun to question his father's teachings. If Dream a Little Dream of Me didn't show you, he has come to realize that his father was mostly 'an obsessed bastard.' Bobby is right--Dean is the better man because he has ALWAYS been there for Sam like John never was. And Bobby has ALWAYS been there for the boys like John NEVER was. So suck it up you immature babies. You're missing some of the most important issues in this show if you're mad at Bobby for being a man. Dean NEEDED his ass kicked, and if Bobby hadn't kicked his ass, do you think he would have called to apologize to Sam? No, he probably would have stayed mad at his brother and never tried to stop him from starting the Apocalypse. So there.
And yeah, maybe we SPN fans sound a bit obsessed but that just goes to show you how deeply these characters have marked themselves in our psyches. They speak to us like few characters on TV today ever will. The characters in SPN are all archtypes, which speak to the most primitive side of ourselves. We feel their authenticity in our souls even if we don't understand the reason why. No teen soap opera can achieve this affect on its fans (sorry OTH fans). That's why SPN has fans from all over the world in every age bracket. Kripke, you're the man! And Jensen (Dean) and Jared (Sam) and Jim (Bobby) rock for bringing these characters to such extraordinary life. SPN forever!
Bobby is now losing by 5% or over 200 votes. As a rabid Dean fans, I have to say that I just don't agree with this. Not one bit. I'm put out with him, I really don't like what he said to Dean in LR but he has also
1. Allowed the guys to stay with him while Dean rebuilt the Impala and provided room and board. And probably auto parts.
2. Came running when they called in Tall Tales, and then knew exactly what they were dealing with and how to kill it. And basically called them both morons for letting the Trickster get the better of them.
3. Came running again to help Dean find Sam in AHBL1 and stayed until they did find him.
4. Tried to support Dean in his grief after Sam's death and then grieved when he heard about the deal. Cause that is what that scene in the junkyard was - grief.
5. Fought with them in TM7 and backed them up with those other hunters didn't want them around.
6. Fixed the Colt (with Ruby's help) and then came running to help the boys in Sin City.
7. Trusted Dean while in his dream, that Dean knew what he was talking about. This episode really shows how close Dean and Bobby had become.
8. Tried to be there for Sam in MS, after Dean's last death but was pushed away by Sam.
9. Was there to help defend Dean in NRFTW and came up with the holy water in the sprinkler system. But was unable to be there for Dean at the end.
10. The second person Dean contacted after his resurrection, after Sam. And that hug between Bobby and Dean, wow, that really showed how close they were and how much they love each other. Bobby then goes off with Dean to find Sam and find out what brought Dean back, even staying with him while he summoned an entity that burned out Pam's eyes.
11. Gave the guys a place to stay, food to eat, and access to research in AYTGIMDW prior to all the hunter killings. And then was the one who found out what they were dealing with and how to rectify it.
12. Came running AGAIN in YF to save Dean.
13. Let the guys use his house and panic room in HAH.
14. Came running AGAIN when the guys were in danger in SAV and killed the siren.
15. Helped Dean try to detox Sam in WTLB, having to listen to Sam scream and yell, helping during the seizure. Then tried to stop Sam from leaving and got a rifle butt to the head for his trouble.
16. His only mistake, IMO, and one that was understandable. Yes, he said the wrong thing IMO but he did it to snap Dean out of his funk, to get Dean's attention and then, when he had his attention, he told him what a better man than John Dean was.
Is that one mistake unforgiveable? Hell, Sam started the apocalypse yet we want to forgive him. Does a few words in 4 years take away Bobby dropping everything to help the guys out and sometimes saving their asses? And Bobby has been under no obligation to do any of it except for the obligation that friendship and love of another brings. And Bobby does love this guys. A handful of words shouldn't wipe that out.
VOTER HALEYYYY :D Thsi is the Best (L)
HALEY JAMES SCOTT all the way!!!
Love one tree hill, haley rocks!!
Bobby for sureee, Vote Supernatural
Bobby Singer for sure should win. He helps the boys out all the time and really helps balance them out when they are having an argument. Come on! Without his help with the Trickster the boys would have probably killed each other. Go Bobby! Go Supernatural!
I voted for Haley. She's my favorite character ever and I think her speech was just incredible.
There are 20 kids in that classroom scene Kelly; learn to count.
I voted Haley because that was an amazing speech. :) Loved it!
haley, haley, haley, haley, haley (need i write/say more?)
vote supernatural its the best show ever
Bobby! DUH! He's, like, the only one on the PLANET who could have said John Winchester was a coward to Dean's face the way he did without outright being SLAUGHTERED by Dean! Bobby is always the voice of reason and wisdom honed by experience on Supernatural, and every time he shows up on an episode I will bet my new Blu-ray edition of Supernatural Season 4 (with 3 whole hours of bonus features and the best gag reel EVER by the way!) that EVERY fan of SPN cheers the second they see him. GO BOBBY! Anyone else who doesn't think so is just, in Bobby's words, an 'idjit!' (Except for the OTH fans lol!)
Vote One Tree Hill, Haley always knows just the right thing to say that pulls at your heart.
Uh...Why was there only like 10 kids in that classroom in the OTH scene? lol Rather odd.
But anyways. I ♥heart♥ Bobby!
vote supernatural because they are the best and that scene said alot about dean and john