Well said Steve - I am appalled that anyone would even consider Pampas Ave ! This is a RESIDENTIAL area and this type of facility needs to be AWAY from houses - not next to them!. Council have not planned this properly -the site is DANGEROUS and kids have no way to reach it or the playground except by crossing the two busiest roads in Copa! What happened to the other proposed area - beside the surfclub? This is safe and close to everything the kids want and need ... someone use your common sense and move it - before it is too late and some poor parent gets the dreaded phonecall. Come on Surfclub - use your powers to do the right thing by the community and our kids ... you are the ones who want it - make it safe and a benefit to all, not a problem.
Steve - 14 years ago
It is clear that this skatepark issue has been handled very badly. Why weren't all residents made aware of this? With only one meeting which was so poorly advertised we had no opportunity to voice our concerns. Maybe this is why it was kept under wraps!!!!!
The skatepark should be built in the most open area available, away from houses and dangerous roads so skateboarders and their families are not worried and nearby residents don't have their peace and privacy destroyed. At Pampas Ave there will be lots of complaints, and possibly a trajedy. The community will have to suffer an ugly evesore at its very entrance - what an impression this will make on all our visitors!
Give the kids a skatepark by the beach - they can hop from one board to another, visit the shops, the kiosk and the toilets without having to cross busy roads... why on earth would anyone choose Pampas Ave????
Put it by the surf club and we have a WIN WIN. Afterall every other surf club in Australia uses the beach for their activites - or would the surfclub rather risk the safety of our kids?
Ell - 14 years ago
The youth of copacabana deserve a skate park.
Those who are opposed need to stop being so selfish and solely concerned with property value and "noise pollution"!
Saying that a skate park "encourages all sorts of 'losers' who have nothing better to do with their time than 'hang'" is not only rude and stereotypical but emphasises the ignorance of those opposing the park.
Not only would the skatepark be beneficial for the skaters, bmx and scooter riders of the area but also for street artists, who can potentially create breath-taking murals and beautify the area.
Graffiti is not anti-social behaviour, but an artform if it is allowed to be so.
I think the real problem is the bourgeois mentality of the conservative middle class fools that unfortunately feel the need to share their obstinate opinions.
Jane P - 14 years ago
To the 14 year old deaf boy - the noise from the surf is vastly different to the noise made by a gang of boys with scateboards yahooing day and night. One of the postives of living near the beach is listening to the sound of the ocean - people do not pay money to buy or rent properties that are subject to the noise pollution generated from skate parks !
Jackson - 14 years ago
I think the location is a major problem. ..this is NOT the right location - too dangerous to skateboarders and traffic and passers-by for all the reasons stated above and too noisy, ugly and prone to graffiti to be at the entrance to Copa. Not to mention being situated right across the road from houses and cafes etc where people want to relax NOT be bombarded by incessant thumping, grinding, yahooing and no doubt swearing etc etc..
Experiences of other councils show clearly that skateparks DO create problems for the community - Camden council researched skate parks in detail before deciding NOT to build one in their local area. Boorandara Council - Junction Skate park in Victoria -are quoted as saying it the skate park "keeps youth off the street however issues such as litter and anti-social behaviour are evident", Fairy Meadow Skate Park state they "have no problems with skaters but with after hours anti-social behaviour by other groups which has to be managed with cooperation from police", Leumah Skate Park - they "have to employ security from 8pm-1am Thu-Sat nts and anti social behaviour has been well documented after the facility has closed", Engadine Skate Park has to "have council enforcement officers there at closing time", Umina - even the school has problems as a result of the skate park (read the excerpt on this website) and if that isn't enough look at Dubbo (Wellington)- the park is less than 6 months old and they have had to install CCTV cameras ($6000 just for the installation - cameras were donated by a local businessman who was fed up with all the problems)...
I agree with Tim in that research on building a successful skate park clearly shows location is critical to a positive outcome - it must be located in an area where it has full line of sight (ie can be seen from ALL sides to improve safety and discourage anti-social behaviour), it must be away from houses and close to amenities. Behind the car park is NOT the place.
Abe Simpson - 14 years ago
Mason,
You can't hear anything from 10 metres because you hang around skate parks all day and listen to your pop music too loud.
Abe Simpson
mason - 14 years ago
To the guy above,
There is already noise because the beach?
also im 14 and hang at skateparks all the time and you cant hear anything from 10 meters away
Annonymous - 14 years ago
Has the position of the Skatepark been considered seriously. From what I can see it is very close to a steep road where cars coming down the hill are not only coming down above 50km/hr but also with the bend may be hard to stop and react in time if there were any children that spill on to the road. Cars heading the other direction tend to speed up prior to the hill before the acsent. I also see that the skate park would create continual noise of skaters going up and down the ramp all day. Where it is positioned I see as being in somewhat of an ampitheatre and noise would reververate to the surrounding residence. For the record I have not voted either way and happy to remain impartial. Skate parks are good for the youth but I think the location should be better considered.
Tim Kreger - 14 years ago
Neighbourly Advice,
you need to look at actual figures rather assumptions.
The reality is that skateparks attract families with kids on scooters rather than disaffected youths. Go down to Kincumber skatepark on the weekends (both day and evening)and you'll see evidence of this. Councils throughout Australia are currently scrabbling hand over foot to install skate parks because they provide a cost effective method of reducing crime and anti-social behaviour .
Graffiti will always be an issue with concrete structures but most councils factor cleaning into the total cost of ownership. As a general rule the skaters and BMXers aren't the taggers(paint makes the surface slippery). Putting lights in reduces the potential for graffiti, CCTV would seem excessive but definitely would have an effect.
The cost isn't negligible but it isn't excessive either. The facilites associated with the beach would be much higher and there would certain efficiencies related to combination of services. BTW your rates wont go up because council is putting in skate park, they will go up because you property values increase.
I hang around skateparks in Melbourne (although I grew up in at Avoca and spend a lot of my time at Copa) and see nothing but positive social interaction amongst those using the parks. Newport, Fitzroy, Box Hill and Frankston are all very family friendly environments in areas that "used' to be considered a bit sketchy. BTW I have a life, work hard and make good money. I love sharing a sunday morning with my 40+ year old mates providing positive role models for the kids around us. True skaters(whatever that means) learn that in a park environment everyone has to a take a turn and watch out for others, I've repeatedly seen 15 year old skaters wait patiently for a 6 year kid on a scooter roll around in a 9 ft bowl because it was their turn. I've had equally patient 25 year old pro skaters wait for me to scrape my 40 year old body of the cement after an ill-conceived kick turn. In reality the beach is more likely to attract the unsavouries and surfing provides more potential for hostile social interaction. ;-)
This is one of the few studies made in Australia about skate parks in communities
http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/attachment/social_research/skate_park_report_290908.pdf
I suggest anyone supporting or opposing read this document as it provides good insight into what a skate park is and how it fits into a community.
Critical to the success of a park is really its design and location, Kincumber park suffered from poor implementation and community consultation yet there are still positive outcomes from the project, GSC has learnt from this and I think if the community becomes involved in the process rather than just rejecting it a positive outcome is assured.
I look forward to taking a roll if it does come about.
Cheers
Tim
neighbourly advice - 14 years ago
So happy NOT to know you Adam Rouse... If you do some research and you will find your answers as to why intelligent people do not want a skate park. It COSTS a lot !! Financially it lowers property values, costs a fortune to build then maintain and requires constant vigilance, surveillance perhaps even lights, cameras and fencing. Furthermore, it encourages all sorts of 'losers' who have nothing better to do with their time than 'hang' and puts our local teenagers at more risk by attracting problem youths to the area - especially at night. It does not build a happy cohesive community and it has been shown to increase the liklihood of crime, vandalism, graffiti, drugs - not lessen it. True skaters do not want to share so it will not be a 'nice family place' but instead another problem area which the whole community will have to pay for. The money can certainly be better spent in ways that benefit all the residents. It is the sort of people who hang around skate parks who need to get a life... honestly.
Adam Rouse - 14 years ago
to all u losers who voted 'no'. why not? you dont have to pay anything? cant you old no lifers just let the kids have something fun to do? no skateparks increase more chances of parties, vandalism, graffiti, drugs etc. get a life honestly. if i met some of the people who voted no you would get a mouthful i tell you.
Anonymous1 - 14 years ago
If there were variables in the poll, such as "Yes, but it has to be moved," the poll would be far more effective.
Well said Steve - I am appalled that anyone would even consider Pampas Ave ! This is a RESIDENTIAL area and this type of facility needs to be AWAY from houses - not next to them!. Council have not planned this properly -the site is DANGEROUS and kids have no way to reach it or the playground except by crossing the two busiest roads in Copa! What happened to the other proposed area - beside the surfclub? This is safe and close to everything the kids want and need ... someone use your common sense and move it - before it is too late and some poor parent gets the dreaded phonecall. Come on Surfclub - use your powers to do the right thing by the community and our kids ... you are the ones who want it - make it safe and a benefit to all, not a problem.
It is clear that this skatepark issue has been handled very badly. Why weren't all residents made aware of this? With only one meeting which was so poorly advertised we had no opportunity to voice our concerns. Maybe this is why it was kept under wraps!!!!!
The skatepark should be built in the most open area available, away from houses and dangerous roads so skateboarders and their families are not worried and nearby residents don't have their peace and privacy destroyed. At Pampas Ave there will be lots of complaints, and possibly a trajedy. The community will have to suffer an ugly evesore at its very entrance - what an impression this will make on all our visitors!
Give the kids a skatepark by the beach - they can hop from one board to another, visit the shops, the kiosk and the toilets without having to cross busy roads... why on earth would anyone choose Pampas Ave????
Put it by the surf club and we have a WIN WIN. Afterall every other surf club in Australia uses the beach for their activites - or would the surfclub rather risk the safety of our kids?
The youth of copacabana deserve a skate park.
Those who are opposed need to stop being so selfish and solely concerned with property value and "noise pollution"!
Saying that a skate park "encourages all sorts of 'losers' who have nothing better to do with their time than 'hang'" is not only rude and stereotypical but emphasises the ignorance of those opposing the park.
Not only would the skatepark be beneficial for the skaters, bmx and scooter riders of the area but also for street artists, who can potentially create breath-taking murals and beautify the area.
Graffiti is not anti-social behaviour, but an artform if it is allowed to be so.
I think the real problem is the bourgeois mentality of the conservative middle class fools that unfortunately feel the need to share their obstinate opinions.
To the 14 year old deaf boy - the noise from the surf is vastly different to the noise made by a gang of boys with scateboards yahooing day and night. One of the postives of living near the beach is listening to the sound of the ocean - people do not pay money to buy or rent properties that are subject to the noise pollution generated from skate parks !
I think the location is a major problem. ..this is NOT the right location - too dangerous to skateboarders and traffic and passers-by for all the reasons stated above and too noisy, ugly and prone to graffiti to be at the entrance to Copa. Not to mention being situated right across the road from houses and cafes etc where people want to relax NOT be bombarded by incessant thumping, grinding, yahooing and no doubt swearing etc etc..
Experiences of other councils show clearly that skateparks DO create problems for the community - Camden council researched skate parks in detail before deciding NOT to build one in their local area. Boorandara Council - Junction Skate park in Victoria -are quoted as saying it the skate park "keeps youth off the street however issues such as litter and anti-social behaviour are evident", Fairy Meadow Skate Park state they "have no problems with skaters but with after hours anti-social behaviour by other groups which has to be managed with cooperation from police", Leumah Skate Park - they "have to employ security from 8pm-1am Thu-Sat nts and anti social behaviour has been well documented after the facility has closed", Engadine Skate Park has to "have council enforcement officers there at closing time", Umina - even the school has problems as a result of the skate park (read the excerpt on this website) and if that isn't enough look at Dubbo (Wellington)- the park is less than 6 months old and they have had to install CCTV cameras ($6000 just for the installation - cameras were donated by a local businessman who was fed up with all the problems)...
I agree with Tim in that research on building a successful skate park clearly shows location is critical to a positive outcome - it must be located in an area where it has full line of sight (ie can be seen from ALL sides to improve safety and discourage anti-social behaviour), it must be away from houses and close to amenities. Behind the car park is NOT the place.
Mason,
You can't hear anything from 10 metres because you hang around skate parks all day and listen to your pop music too loud.
Abe Simpson
To the guy above,
There is already noise because the beach?
also im 14 and hang at skateparks all the time and you cant hear anything from 10 meters away
Has the position of the Skatepark been considered seriously. From what I can see it is very close to a steep road where cars coming down the hill are not only coming down above 50km/hr but also with the bend may be hard to stop and react in time if there were any children that spill on to the road. Cars heading the other direction tend to speed up prior to the hill before the acsent. I also see that the skate park would create continual noise of skaters going up and down the ramp all day. Where it is positioned I see as being in somewhat of an ampitheatre and noise would reververate to the surrounding residence. For the record I have not voted either way and happy to remain impartial. Skate parks are good for the youth but I think the location should be better considered.
Neighbourly Advice,
you need to look at actual figures rather assumptions.
The reality is that skateparks attract families with kids on scooters rather than disaffected youths. Go down to Kincumber skatepark on the weekends (both day and evening)and you'll see evidence of this. Councils throughout Australia are currently scrabbling hand over foot to install skate parks because they provide a cost effective method of reducing crime and anti-social behaviour .
Graffiti will always be an issue with concrete structures but most councils factor cleaning into the total cost of ownership. As a general rule the skaters and BMXers aren't the taggers(paint makes the surface slippery). Putting lights in reduces the potential for graffiti, CCTV would seem excessive but definitely would have an effect.
The cost isn't negligible but it isn't excessive either. The facilites associated with the beach would be much higher and there would certain efficiencies related to combination of services. BTW your rates wont go up because council is putting in skate park, they will go up because you property values increase.
I hang around skateparks in Melbourne (although I grew up in at Avoca and spend a lot of my time at Copa) and see nothing but positive social interaction amongst those using the parks. Newport, Fitzroy, Box Hill and Frankston are all very family friendly environments in areas that "used' to be considered a bit sketchy. BTW I have a life, work hard and make good money. I love sharing a sunday morning with my 40+ year old mates providing positive role models for the kids around us. True skaters(whatever that means) learn that in a park environment everyone has to a take a turn and watch out for others, I've repeatedly seen 15 year old skaters wait patiently for a 6 year kid on a scooter roll around in a 9 ft bowl because it was their turn. I've had equally patient 25 year old pro skaters wait for me to scrape my 40 year old body of the cement after an ill-conceived kick turn. In reality the beach is more likely to attract the unsavouries and surfing provides more potential for hostile social interaction. ;-)
This is one of the few studies made in Australia about skate parks in communities
http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/attachment/social_research/skate_park_report_290908.pdf
I suggest anyone supporting or opposing read this document as it provides good insight into what a skate park is and how it fits into a community.
Critical to the success of a park is really its design and location, Kincumber park suffered from poor implementation and community consultation yet there are still positive outcomes from the project, GSC has learnt from this and I think if the community becomes involved in the process rather than just rejecting it a positive outcome is assured.
I look forward to taking a roll if it does come about.
Cheers
Tim
So happy NOT to know you Adam Rouse... If you do some research and you will find your answers as to why intelligent people do not want a skate park. It COSTS a lot !! Financially it lowers property values, costs a fortune to build then maintain and requires constant vigilance, surveillance perhaps even lights, cameras and fencing. Furthermore, it encourages all sorts of 'losers' who have nothing better to do with their time than 'hang' and puts our local teenagers at more risk by attracting problem youths to the area - especially at night. It does not build a happy cohesive community and it has been shown to increase the liklihood of crime, vandalism, graffiti, drugs - not lessen it. True skaters do not want to share so it will not be a 'nice family place' but instead another problem area which the whole community will have to pay for. The money can certainly be better spent in ways that benefit all the residents. It is the sort of people who hang around skate parks who need to get a life... honestly.
to all u losers who voted 'no'. why not? you dont have to pay anything? cant you old no lifers just let the kids have something fun to do? no skateparks increase more chances of parties, vandalism, graffiti, drugs etc. get a life honestly. if i met some of the people who voted no you would get a mouthful i tell you.
If there were variables in the poll, such as "Yes, but it has to be moved," the poll would be far more effective.