I think that both of you have some good ideas but what you say have been said before......
Until today the ideology that pushed man to see others as members of a nation, race or religion have always pushed him to be violent when his nation, race or religion was in danger. This gives us nationalism, racism and extremism... three of them don't have a concrete reason of being.
The simple fact of being a patriot for some nation is a form of nationalism, it's a shame that human being with all the knowledge it have is not able to make abstraction from reality.
If we do not have forgivness we'll fall in the same reactions as WWII when German were not able to forgive France's Victory.
I hope in the future people will be able to think on other basis than nation, race or religion which are restricted ways of seeing things today. Some of us have the capability to dissosiate themselves from any nation, race or religion even if they share DNA, traditions or faith with the others.
No more wars, frogiveness !!
Matthias - 14 years ago
Not a meaningless question at all. Can anybody deny any people's right to exist as a nation? Of course Israel, just as any other nation (Palestinians too) has a right to exist.
But there are a lot of peoples today which equally want a nation of their own. What was at the origin of the war which dismembered Yugoslavia. Why the troubles in several Ex-Soviet Republics etc, etc. You can find independence movements on most continents. Do they have a right to exist as a nation or should they go to the United States where they certainly would be appreciated? ;-) Indeed those questions can't be answered easily and wouldn't be resolved by wars.
Well, does Israel has a better reason to exist as a nation than others? (but this is another question which is very complex and worth to be discussed). Anyway they exist and you can't undo a existing nation pretending it has not the right to be. Israel is a quite young nation, but would you chase somebody from a country where he was born as well as his parents and grandparents. Some families are there since four generations.
How many generations does it take to get the right to live somewhere ? Should the US Americans go back to Europe, Asia, Africa and anywhere else their ancestors came from? What about Australia, South Africa, Middle and South America and all other countries populated now by people whose ancestors came from elsewhere?
So back to the question if they have a right to exist as a nation. I think they do but they also have the duty not to oppress other people and to grant them their right to exist as well. Especially if one considers that the the Jews have been victims of oppression for many centuries.
As to the attack of the humanitarian convoy, no matter who shot first and why, this happened in international waters and is contrary to all existing rights and must just be considered as an act of piracy. Acting so is not a way to gather mutual understanding or respect. The only way to live in peace is to respect your neighbors just as you want that they respect you and to be able to communicate with them and this is only possible respecting the law.
Bill Ainsworth - 14 years ago
Did the USSR, East Germany and Yugoslavia have the right to exist? Countries come and go all the time so to ask if countries like the USA and Israel have the right to exist is asking a meaningless question. I do not understand why Israelis would want to live in a place where they’re surrounded by people who want to kill them. If I lived in such a place, I’d get out very quickly. It’s incomprehensible to me why Jews consider Israel to be their safe haven when they could live here in the US where they would be appreciated and be much safer.
I think that both of you have some good ideas but what you say have been said before......
Until today the ideology that pushed man to see others as members of a nation, race or religion have always pushed him to be violent when his nation, race or religion was in danger. This gives us nationalism, racism and extremism... three of them don't have a concrete reason of being.
The simple fact of being a patriot for some nation is a form of nationalism, it's a shame that human being with all the knowledge it have is not able to make abstraction from reality.
If we do not have forgivness we'll fall in the same reactions as WWII when German were not able to forgive France's Victory.
I hope in the future people will be able to think on other basis than nation, race or religion which are restricted ways of seeing things today. Some of us have the capability to dissosiate themselves from any nation, race or religion even if they share DNA, traditions or faith with the others.
No more wars, frogiveness !!
Not a meaningless question at all. Can anybody deny any people's right to exist as a nation? Of course Israel, just as any other nation (Palestinians too) has a right to exist.
But there are a lot of peoples today which equally want a nation of their own. What was at the origin of the war which dismembered Yugoslavia. Why the troubles in several Ex-Soviet Republics etc, etc. You can find independence movements on most continents. Do they have a right to exist as a nation or should they go to the United States where they certainly would be appreciated? ;-) Indeed those questions can't be answered easily and wouldn't be resolved by wars.
Well, does Israel has a better reason to exist as a nation than others? (but this is another question which is very complex and worth to be discussed). Anyway they exist and you can't undo a existing nation pretending it has not the right to be. Israel is a quite young nation, but would you chase somebody from a country where he was born as well as his parents and grandparents. Some families are there since four generations.
How many generations does it take to get the right to live somewhere ? Should the US Americans go back to Europe, Asia, Africa and anywhere else their ancestors came from? What about Australia, South Africa, Middle and South America and all other countries populated now by people whose ancestors came from elsewhere?
So back to the question if they have a right to exist as a nation. I think they do but they also have the duty not to oppress other people and to grant them their right to exist as well. Especially if one considers that the the Jews have been victims of oppression for many centuries.
As to the attack of the humanitarian convoy, no matter who shot first and why, this happened in international waters and is contrary to all existing rights and must just be considered as an act of piracy. Acting so is not a way to gather mutual understanding or respect. The only way to live in peace is to respect your neighbors just as you want that they respect you and to be able to communicate with them and this is only possible respecting the law.
Did the USSR, East Germany and Yugoslavia have the right to exist? Countries come and go all the time so to ask if countries like the USA and Israel have the right to exist is asking a meaningless question. I do not understand why Israelis would want to live in a place where they’re surrounded by people who want to kill them. If I lived in such a place, I’d get out very quickly. It’s incomprehensible to me why Jews consider Israel to be their safe haven when they could live here in the US where they would be appreciated and be much safer.