It makes me sad that some people are so close-minded.
To me the bible is a bunch of stories meant to teach us to treat each other fairly, do not judge because no one is without sin and just generally try to live a good and decent life. The book has been edited, translated and re-translated countless times...it is not infallible. And as Just Annie has pointed out, women were property at first so I'm a little suspicious of how we are represented fairly anyway.
If I had my own newspaper, I would gladly print a wedding/marriage announcement for the couple. Anyone who finds love and happiness without harming others is very lucky, indeed.
By the way, not that it matters much, but I'm straight and a Catholic. The priest and church leaders I've spoken to about the issue do say that even though there is an official stance on homosexuality, we still love one another and do not judge & each of us are free to make up our own minds. I do not judge.
jackson - 13 years ago
Freedom of choice is given to us by God. However, I believe there are consequences for those that choose to disobey. The homosexual community is certainly nothing new. The angel of the Lord himself was accosted by men demanding that he come out of the home and have sex with them. But, they were dealt with severely. The media has glamorized homosexuality, and in particular lesbianism, by portraying it in a desirable light. The true side of this sickness is hidden. How else could they recruit for the cause? Heterosexual married couples are afforded rights because they aren't infecting the populous with communicable diseases. The AIDS diseasse has actually been traced to an airline employee in Canada that commuted to Africa for years and had thousands of sex partners. I do not promote the fact that I'm heterosexual with bumper stickers, flags, etc. I also take exception with the homosexual society for degrading the rainbow, which is a sign of a promise from God. They actually want to be declared a minority so they can take advantage of privileges afforded to minorities. Actually, they have created havoc in the legal community with hate crime legislation. Keep the problem out of Texas.
Just Annie - 13 years ago
Here's the bottom line, and then I'll be quiet, much to your relief, I'm sure. :-)
Many of you believe in God and you believe in Christianity, and you believe I am wrong. I don't believe in God or Christianity, and so I believe you are wrong.
And yet, I would never deny you the right to go to your church and worship your God and live your life in a way that makes you happy. What you do in your personal life has no impact on me. In truth, your life as a Christian isn't really on my radar until news forums like this crop up. I'm not out there advocating that we shut down churches, or banish Christians from society, or anything like that. No matter how illogical or wrong I believe you to be, I would not deny you this thing that makes you happy -- your religious faith.
You claim to follow a God who gave you a golden rule: to do unto others as you would have done unto yourself. Yet you don't follow that rule where gay people are concerned. You've learned to co-exist with all kinds of people whose beliefs and values, including in some cases sexual beliefs and values, differ from yours, but for whatever reason, you can't do that with us. I don't get that. I don't get it at all. We are doing nothing to harm you. My gay marriage does not harm you.
I don't understand why people who claim to follow a God of love cannot do something as simple as live and let live. So we disagree. So what? It's a big world. We've learned to share it with you. Why can't you show us the same courtesy?
Just Annie - 13 years ago
Actually, the definition and purpose of marriage has changed over time.
Marriage was originally a legal contract whereby a woman was a piece of property who was being transferred from her father's domain to her husband's domain, usually in exchange for a dowry of some sort of value.
As time went on, women were no longer property, but because of the way our socio-economic situation was structured, there were very strict boundaries that were necessary in order for people to thrive. Most families were in rural situations where people ran the family farm and had large numbers of children in order to help run that farm. The man plowed the fields and the woman kept house, while the children helped out in both areas, usually along gender-specific lines.
In America, World War II changed that structure. Men went off to war and women, for the first time, went outside the home in droves to work, and other than a few blips along the way, they never went back. Increasingly, men and women moved to cities and no longer lived off the land. Women now have the choice to work outside the home. Women no longer need men in order to have a livelihood. And in only a few generations, the average family shrunk dramatically in size.
Marriage today, as far as societal custom is concerned, is no longer a means of survival, but a bond of love or in some cases, a social contract. We no longer automatically expect married couples to have children, nor is the intention to have children a requirement of marriage.
Today, in the United States, marriage is ultimately still a legal contract, and there are certain legal rights that are conveyed only to married couples -- those rights aligned with marriage are given by the government, not by the church or by God.
Marriage is not confined to religious institutions. You can get married at the courthouse, on board ship, in Vegas, on a beach, on a plane, or pretty much anywhere, provided you have obtained the proper legal license and are married by someone who has been given the authority to marry you: judge, minister, ship's captain, etc.
So to claim marriage is somehow the domain of God is really not true. God is not a requirement in many of those situations. There is no one God, church, or religion that owns the word or definition of "marriage." If that were true, then we would be denying marriage to atheists or others who do not follow the religion that owns the word. In fact, the civil government owns the definition of marriage.
To have one word for one group and a different word for the other is still discrimination. I don't want to be told I must drink from the civil union fountain, but the marriage fountain is off limits. Whatever you call it, it needs to be called the same thing, across the board, gay or straight. If I have the exact same rights as a striaght couple, then I want the right to use the exact same word -- to be able to say "I'm married" and for people to understand what that means, with no confusion -- to understand that I have the rights of a married person. "I'm civil unioned" doesn't cut it.
Small tidbit. Massachusetts is the state that has had legalized gay marriage for the longest, since 2004. Their divorce rate has been steadily declining since then, and they have one of the lowest divorce rates in the country. Truly, gay marriage simply isn't a threat to straight marriage. It just isn't.
Lee - 13 years ago
Wow. If you have made it this far in the debate you are committed, and i commend you.
I will offer a few of my points that may try to unite us, and hopefully bring a bit of context.
1)We are all flawed.. Think on that from the first post to this one, I,WE,YOU,US, all are flawed.
2) God is not wrong, cruel, or spiteful. God is Just, and God is Love.
3) The Bible is True, and needs to be read and used in CONTEXT.
4) Homosexual is a from of sin, and so is Hate, Lust, Pride, Envious, and so on and so for which makes us no better or worse than the other. It is realizing our sin and turning from it.
5) If Science cant explain everything (Use science to explain the center of a black hole.?) and we are flawed what how are we to Govern our selves?
6) Marriage was originally defined between a man and a woman. A definition is not open to interpretation it is a condition of being clear and distinct. Government should no alienate a union, but it should be a union or called something besides marriage.
I choose a Just God of Love and Forgiveness who gave us 10 rules that can be applied across all cultures and all civilizations.
Just Annie - 13 years ago
I don't hate anyone. Feel sorry for them, maybe. And I certainly don't advocate killing Christians. Good grief! By the way, I suppose you do know Christians are killing gay people in Uganda and other African countries, partly based on the support and teachings of American Christian pastors and politicians?
The Bible is not infallible. It is full of contradiction and ridiculous laws we no longer follow, so yes, pulling out some random anti-gay scripture is cherry-picking. If Christians aren't following all those other laws, why do you expect me to follow that one you singled out? Is gluttony a habitual sin? Because, if the people I've seen entering churches are any indication, there needs to be a huge (pardon the pun) drive to eradicate their habitual sin. I mean, if you're going to go after something you consider to be habitual sin, shouldn't you be going after all of them with equal zeal? Where is the Christian "anti-fat" movement, or the Christian "anti-greedy rich people" movement? Why are you singling out the gay people?
And seriously? You honestly think lesbians just emerged in recent times? Go brush up on your Greek and Roman history. You might also want to check out current lesbian culture. Plenty of lesbians have children and families, and are pretty much living relatively benign lives -- get up, take the kids to school, go to work, pick the kids up, come home, cook dinner, get kids ready for bed, and spend maybe 10 minutes with their partner at the end of an exhausting day. So much for the big bad gay agenda.
I refuse to live my life based on fear of some unknown afterlife, or based upon the writings of one obviously homophobic, woman-hating man, Paul. Or on the life of a man, who while possibly a good man, has four different versions of his life history, written by people who didn't actually ever meet him while he was alive, and advocated by a church that purposefully purged biographies written by women and people who did know him when he was alive.
There are and have been many religions and gods throughout the history of man. Some have faded into history, memory, and myth, only to be replaced by another god/religion. It kind of leads me to believe religion and gods are man-made in an effort to explain things they could not understand. It's pretty tough to swallow that of all those gods and religions, throughout all of human history, all of them were wrong except one? I think there is good and bad in most religions, but I also think we don't need religion or any god to be kind and decent people. On the contrary, I think overall there would be a lot more love, kindness, and acceptance in the world if there were less religion.
If I'm wrong, and Heaven and Hell do exist, then the god who created Hell is one cruel sick, selfish being with no love in him. This god allegedly created us, and yet he is all- powerful and perfect? He must not be too perfect, since it appears he tried to eradicate his imperfection several times and still didn't get it right (Tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah and the flood, and so on - and don't get me started on Sodom and Gomorrah if you aren't willing to tell the whole story in all its virgin-sacrificing, incestuous "glory").
So his solution to our imperfection is a blood sacrifice, because he's so unforgiving that he can't accept his own imperfect creation/children without killing someone else to take our place? That is sick. If I had a child and he/she, for whatever reason, chose not to love me, or continued to exhibit some fault such as bed-wetting, my solution would not be to toss that child into a fireplace. As far as I'm concerned, I'm a better and more loving person than the god of the Bible. If he does exist, he isn't worthy of my worship, and certainly isn't someone I would want to spend eternity with.
The Bible is a religious book of mixed history and myth. If you want to win the future, you are going to have to find a way beyond i
Cherry picking? Did you read those text? That Example in Matthew, God judges your thought life..
The irony, at the time it was written up to recent years, no one thought these scriptures involing women giving up the natural desire to have families and children, and lust for other women would never happen. Turns out God called it right 2000 years ago.
The shame is on people like you, from the last verse..
"Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. "
People who claim to be christians and support and encourage what the bible calls sin, knwing full well what it says, are worse than those in the sin.
Because only a few people speak the truth, even something as simple as quoting a bible verse makes you hate us. According to the bible, the day will come when people like yourself will kill us, thinking they are doing God a favor. That to is happening in the world today.
And yes, the bible said that 2000 years ago too, not that i'm being a cherry picker..its all been proven right so far. You'd better hope then ending is wrong.
Just Annie - 13 years ago
Don't plan for the future. (Matthew 6:34)
Don't save money. (Matthew 6:19-20)
Don't become wealthy. (Mark 10:21-25)
Sell everything and give it to the poor. (Luke 12:33)
Don't work to obtain food. (John 6:27)
Don't have sexual urges. (Matthew 5:28)
Make people want to persecute you. (Matthew 5:11)
Let everyone know you are better than the rest. (Matthew 5:13-16)
If someone steals from you, don't try to get it back. (Luke 6:30)
If someone hits you, invite them to do it again. (Matthew 5:39)
If you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment. (Matthew 5:40)
Kill your Enemies (Luke 19:27)
If you look on someone in lust, gouge out your eye and if your sin with your hand, cut it off. (Matthew 5:28-30)
Don't call anyone on Earth your father. (Matthew 23:9)
Don't wear jewelry. (l Timothy 2:9)
Hate your family. (Luke 14:26)
Steal your ride. (Matthew 21:1-2 )
Beat your slaves. (Luke 12:47-48)
Cherry-picking, much?
Just Annie - 13 years ago
Jackson -
Why do people always resort to attacking spelling when backed into a corner? Typographical error. Go look that up. Or don't. You obviously got my point, error or not.
The homosexual population has been more or less at 10% of the total population for a very long time; it's not expanding its borders; it's always existed and is tired of being oppressed, and is now claiming it's human and civil rights. Denying marriage to gay people is not going to make them go away. Married or not, they are here to stay, are still shopping in the same stores with you, living in the same neighborhood as you, having kids, forming families, and holding hands in public. Many of them are church-going Christians.
There are over 3,000 Federal benefits that are granted to married couples, that are denied to gay couples. You can also look that up. While you're at it, look up Vegas weddings and current divorce statistics to understand why I find no validity in the claim of "sanctity" of marriage. Only love is sacred, and heterosexuals don't own that. It is discrimination to deny those rights to loving, committed couples who would get married if only they were allowed to.
There were many reasons other than religion that brought people to this country; we were a haven for criminals, indentured servants, and sons of large families who had no land inheritance to look forward to in Europe. Many were simply adventurers. You can look that up. And as you said yourself, we have a separation of church and state built into our government.
You might also want to go look up socialism and communism and perhaps understand just how far Obama and our country in general is from either of those forms of government.
I have read the Bible from cover to cover in three different versions; it was written by men over thousands of years, put together by a group of men -- the Council of Nicea, over a period of time that spanned 500+ years, and was doctored and cherry-picked by the Catholic Church to create a patriarchal society that would hold people under its grasp based on fear. My current preferred version of the Bible is the Skeptics Bible Annotated, which points out quite skillfully all the holes, contradictions, and utterly ridiculous portions of the Bible. I've also studied Biblical history, and understand the historical context of the 1st chapter of Romans, and that it had nothing to do with a loving relationship between consenting adults. I don't bother with the Old Testament passages, since they also are against shellfish, mixing meat and milk, mixing the materials in our clothing, and men cutting their beards, among many other things that Christians no longer do, yet insist on calling out just the anti-gay portions of those chapters.
While the passage in Jeremiah has nothing to do with homosexuality, if you claim it and find comfort in it, that's good; you seem to be an awfully unhappy person to be so fixated on wanting to deny some small happiness to 10% of the population.
And yes, it's absolutely true my parents were straight and that I probably would not be alive if they had been gay. My parents were life-long Democrats and Christians who subscribed to the Golden Rule --- they taught me to be tolerant of people different from me, and loved me unconditionally. You can't look that up, but I would be very happy to slap you across the face for attempting to use them against me in your arguments, a slap that you surely deserve, sir, despite my hopes you find a happy place in all your anti-gay misery.
I can't figure out from your citing of separation of church and state and then back to your claims of Judeo-Christian values, what it is you're after. Whether you're against gay marriage based on Christianity, or you're against it because you simply find it to be "icky." Maybe you're just pining for the "good old days?" Honestly, they really weren't so good for a great number of people: women, minorities, immigrants,
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
jackson - 13 years ago
I'm not asking for church rule. You see what happens when that takes place in the middle East. This nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and has strayed far away from those. That is why you see the Ten Commandments on all of our government buildings. People are working overtime to dismantle those beliefs. That is what brought the pilgrims to this land - religious freedom. The Church of England was the ruling institution in those days. Another example of why church and government are separate. Are you homosexual? I would assume so, as you have assumed that I'm 1500 years old, give or take a century here and there. There once was a time when MOST believed in God and that wasn't all that long ago. Then came Kinsey, Hefner, Steinem, et al. Then, the politically correct crowd moved in. Then, the new agers. Now, it's all about being avant garde and subscribing to the most liberal forms of thinking out there. Why is that? Obama is the flag bearer for the socialist minded. He is leading the charge for socialism, which is a starter kit for Communism. Wake up, America!
Mark - 13 years ago
There once was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages. How old are you?
Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.....Hello
jackson - 13 years ago
Unfortunately, you are probably correct in your statement regarding the legality of homo marriage. The homosexual community is expanding its boundaries. You are also correct in your assumption that I am intolerant of illegal behavior. You did say that homo marriage is not yet legal, albeit illegal, did you not? You are making my case for me. Thank your lucky stars that your parents didn't see things the way you do, or you may not even exist. I will claim Jeremiah 29:11-13. You can look it up if you own a bible. Or, use an online version.
Why do liberals always resort to character assassination when attempting to make a point?
Your spelling could use some work as well.
Just Annie - 13 years ago
I believe Jackson is not familiar with Lawrence vs. Texas. While gay marriage may not YET be legal in all 50 states (it will be, it's just a matter of time), homosexuality is, indeed, legal in all 50 states. Despite the insecurities of a slowy-dying off generation of old, scared white men whose intoleratnt values will be obsolete in the next decade or so, I really do love my country. States aren't intolerant, Jackson, people are. Go look in the mirror.
jackson - 13 years ago
Let me guess, Govita. You voted for our current president, who doesn't satisfy the qualifications prescribed by the constitution. Oh, wait, he doesn't believe in enforcing the constitution. He also spends an inordinate amount of time pandering to the homo community to try and stay in office. God help us if he isn't defeated in 2012. You and people like you are the reason this country is in the bowl, swirling around. Get over yourself. One of the freedoms you enjoy in this great country is to pop off your mouth. And, another one would be to move to California or Vermont or some other state that is tolerant of this disgusting practice. See ya!
govita - 13 years ago
Comparing Gay people to criminals is such a redneck thing to do. But the bright side of being a redneck is you don't have to move to another state to behave like a jackass. The down side is; I probably live next door to you and your hideous family and their hypocritical values.
Just Annie - 13 years ago
Life is short and there is so much unhappiness in the world. To deny a couple this small bit of happiness -- to see their marriage announcement in the paper -- seems petty and cruel. Very mean-spirited. I won't even bother to express my thoughts on someone who would compare a happy couple who is harming no one to a drug dealer.
Miles - 13 years ago
It is still illegal in the state of Texas for homosexuals to marry, until it is legal, the press has no obligation to announce the act. They may as well report the locations of local drug dealers if they are obligated to report illegal activities. If the people who are filing a so-called "discrimination" suit feel so strongly about the issue, they are more than welcome to move to a state that has legalized gay marriage. The Dallas Morning News is guilty of nothing in this situation, other than taking steps to ensure that they are acting within the law.
It makes me sad that some people are so close-minded.
To me the bible is a bunch of stories meant to teach us to treat each other fairly, do not judge because no one is without sin and just generally try to live a good and decent life. The book has been edited, translated and re-translated countless times...it is not infallible. And as Just Annie has pointed out, women were property at first so I'm a little suspicious of how we are represented fairly anyway.
If I had my own newspaper, I would gladly print a wedding/marriage announcement for the couple. Anyone who finds love and happiness without harming others is very lucky, indeed.
By the way, not that it matters much, but I'm straight and a Catholic. The priest and church leaders I've spoken to about the issue do say that even though there is an official stance on homosexuality, we still love one another and do not judge & each of us are free to make up our own minds. I do not judge.
Freedom of choice is given to us by God. However, I believe there are consequences for those that choose to disobey. The homosexual community is certainly nothing new. The angel of the Lord himself was accosted by men demanding that he come out of the home and have sex with them. But, they were dealt with severely. The media has glamorized homosexuality, and in particular lesbianism, by portraying it in a desirable light. The true side of this sickness is hidden. How else could they recruit for the cause? Heterosexual married couples are afforded rights because they aren't infecting the populous with communicable diseases. The AIDS diseasse has actually been traced to an airline employee in Canada that commuted to Africa for years and had thousands of sex partners. I do not promote the fact that I'm heterosexual with bumper stickers, flags, etc. I also take exception with the homosexual society for degrading the rainbow, which is a sign of a promise from God. They actually want to be declared a minority so they can take advantage of privileges afforded to minorities. Actually, they have created havoc in the legal community with hate crime legislation. Keep the problem out of Texas.
Here's the bottom line, and then I'll be quiet, much to your relief, I'm sure. :-)
Many of you believe in God and you believe in Christianity, and you believe I am wrong. I don't believe in God or Christianity, and so I believe you are wrong.
And yet, I would never deny you the right to go to your church and worship your God and live your life in a way that makes you happy. What you do in your personal life has no impact on me. In truth, your life as a Christian isn't really on my radar until news forums like this crop up. I'm not out there advocating that we shut down churches, or banish Christians from society, or anything like that. No matter how illogical or wrong I believe you to be, I would not deny you this thing that makes you happy -- your religious faith.
You claim to follow a God who gave you a golden rule: to do unto others as you would have done unto yourself. Yet you don't follow that rule where gay people are concerned. You've learned to co-exist with all kinds of people whose beliefs and values, including in some cases sexual beliefs and values, differ from yours, but for whatever reason, you can't do that with us. I don't get that. I don't get it at all. We are doing nothing to harm you. My gay marriage does not harm you.
I don't understand why people who claim to follow a God of love cannot do something as simple as live and let live. So we disagree. So what? It's a big world. We've learned to share it with you. Why can't you show us the same courtesy?
Actually, the definition and purpose of marriage has changed over time.
Marriage was originally a legal contract whereby a woman was a piece of property who was being transferred from her father's domain to her husband's domain, usually in exchange for a dowry of some sort of value.
As time went on, women were no longer property, but because of the way our socio-economic situation was structured, there were very strict boundaries that were necessary in order for people to thrive. Most families were in rural situations where people ran the family farm and had large numbers of children in order to help run that farm. The man plowed the fields and the woman kept house, while the children helped out in both areas, usually along gender-specific lines.
In America, World War II changed that structure. Men went off to war and women, for the first time, went outside the home in droves to work, and other than a few blips along the way, they never went back. Increasingly, men and women moved to cities and no longer lived off the land. Women now have the choice to work outside the home. Women no longer need men in order to have a livelihood. And in only a few generations, the average family shrunk dramatically in size.
Marriage today, as far as societal custom is concerned, is no longer a means of survival, but a bond of love or in some cases, a social contract. We no longer automatically expect married couples to have children, nor is the intention to have children a requirement of marriage.
Today, in the United States, marriage is ultimately still a legal contract, and there are certain legal rights that are conveyed only to married couples -- those rights aligned with marriage are given by the government, not by the church or by God.
Marriage is not confined to religious institutions. You can get married at the courthouse, on board ship, in Vegas, on a beach, on a plane, or pretty much anywhere, provided you have obtained the proper legal license and are married by someone who has been given the authority to marry you: judge, minister, ship's captain, etc.
So to claim marriage is somehow the domain of God is really not true. God is not a requirement in many of those situations. There is no one God, church, or religion that owns the word or definition of "marriage." If that were true, then we would be denying marriage to atheists or others who do not follow the religion that owns the word. In fact, the civil government owns the definition of marriage.
To have one word for one group and a different word for the other is still discrimination. I don't want to be told I must drink from the civil union fountain, but the marriage fountain is off limits. Whatever you call it, it needs to be called the same thing, across the board, gay or straight. If I have the exact same rights as a striaght couple, then I want the right to use the exact same word -- to be able to say "I'm married" and for people to understand what that means, with no confusion -- to understand that I have the rights of a married person. "I'm civil unioned" doesn't cut it.
Small tidbit. Massachusetts is the state that has had legalized gay marriage for the longest, since 2004. Their divorce rate has been steadily declining since then, and they have one of the lowest divorce rates in the country. Truly, gay marriage simply isn't a threat to straight marriage. It just isn't.
Wow. If you have made it this far in the debate you are committed, and i commend you.
I will offer a few of my points that may try to unite us, and hopefully bring a bit of context.
1)We are all flawed.. Think on that from the first post to this one, I,WE,YOU,US, all are flawed.
2) God is not wrong, cruel, or spiteful. God is Just, and God is Love.
3) The Bible is True, and needs to be read and used in CONTEXT.
4) Homosexual is a from of sin, and so is Hate, Lust, Pride, Envious, and so on and so for which makes us no better or worse than the other. It is realizing our sin and turning from it.
5) If Science cant explain everything (Use science to explain the center of a black hole.?) and we are flawed what how are we to Govern our selves?
6) Marriage was originally defined between a man and a woman. A definition is not open to interpretation it is a condition of being clear and distinct. Government should no alienate a union, but it should be a union or called something besides marriage.
I choose a Just God of Love and Forgiveness who gave us 10 rules that can be applied across all cultures and all civilizations.
I don't hate anyone. Feel sorry for them, maybe. And I certainly don't advocate killing Christians. Good grief! By the way, I suppose you do know Christians are killing gay people in Uganda and other African countries, partly based on the support and teachings of American Christian pastors and politicians?
The Bible is not infallible. It is full of contradiction and ridiculous laws we no longer follow, so yes, pulling out some random anti-gay scripture is cherry-picking. If Christians aren't following all those other laws, why do you expect me to follow that one you singled out? Is gluttony a habitual sin? Because, if the people I've seen entering churches are any indication, there needs to be a huge (pardon the pun) drive to eradicate their habitual sin. I mean, if you're going to go after something you consider to be habitual sin, shouldn't you be going after all of them with equal zeal? Where is the Christian "anti-fat" movement, or the Christian "anti-greedy rich people" movement? Why are you singling out the gay people?
And seriously? You honestly think lesbians just emerged in recent times? Go brush up on your Greek and Roman history. You might also want to check out current lesbian culture. Plenty of lesbians have children and families, and are pretty much living relatively benign lives -- get up, take the kids to school, go to work, pick the kids up, come home, cook dinner, get kids ready for bed, and spend maybe 10 minutes with their partner at the end of an exhausting day. So much for the big bad gay agenda.
I refuse to live my life based on fear of some unknown afterlife, or based upon the writings of one obviously homophobic, woman-hating man, Paul. Or on the life of a man, who while possibly a good man, has four different versions of his life history, written by people who didn't actually ever meet him while he was alive, and advocated by a church that purposefully purged biographies written by women and people who did know him when he was alive.
There are and have been many religions and gods throughout the history of man. Some have faded into history, memory, and myth, only to be replaced by another god/religion. It kind of leads me to believe religion and gods are man-made in an effort to explain things they could not understand. It's pretty tough to swallow that of all those gods and religions, throughout all of human history, all of them were wrong except one? I think there is good and bad in most religions, but I also think we don't need religion or any god to be kind and decent people. On the contrary, I think overall there would be a lot more love, kindness, and acceptance in the world if there were less religion.
If I'm wrong, and Heaven and Hell do exist, then the god who created Hell is one cruel sick, selfish being with no love in him. This god allegedly created us, and yet he is all- powerful and perfect? He must not be too perfect, since it appears he tried to eradicate his imperfection several times and still didn't get it right (Tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah and the flood, and so on - and don't get me started on Sodom and Gomorrah if you aren't willing to tell the whole story in all its virgin-sacrificing, incestuous "glory").
So his solution to our imperfection is a blood sacrifice, because he's so unforgiving that he can't accept his own imperfect creation/children without killing someone else to take our place? That is sick. If I had a child and he/she, for whatever reason, chose not to love me, or continued to exhibit some fault such as bed-wetting, my solution would not be to toss that child into a fireplace. As far as I'm concerned, I'm a better and more loving person than the god of the Bible. If he does exist, he isn't worthy of my worship, and certainly isn't someone I would want to spend eternity with.
The Bible is a religious book of mixed history and myth. If you want to win the future, you are going to have to find a way beyond i
Cherry picking? Did you read those text? That Example in Matthew, God judges your thought life..
The irony, at the time it was written up to recent years, no one thought these scriptures involing women giving up the natural desire to have families and children, and lust for other women would never happen. Turns out God called it right 2000 years ago.
The shame is on people like you, from the last verse..
"Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. "
People who claim to be christians and support and encourage what the bible calls sin, knwing full well what it says, are worse than those in the sin.
Because only a few people speak the truth, even something as simple as quoting a bible verse makes you hate us. According to the bible, the day will come when people like yourself will kill us, thinking they are doing God a favor. That to is happening in the world today.
And yes, the bible said that 2000 years ago too, not that i'm being a cherry picker..its all been proven right so far. You'd better hope then ending is wrong.
Don't plan for the future. (Matthew 6:34)
Don't save money. (Matthew 6:19-20)
Don't become wealthy. (Mark 10:21-25)
Sell everything and give it to the poor. (Luke 12:33)
Don't work to obtain food. (John 6:27)
Don't have sexual urges. (Matthew 5:28)
Make people want to persecute you. (Matthew 5:11)
Let everyone know you are better than the rest. (Matthew 5:13-16)
If someone steals from you, don't try to get it back. (Luke 6:30)
If someone hits you, invite them to do it again. (Matthew 5:39)
If you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment. (Matthew 5:40)
Kill your Enemies (Luke 19:27)
If you look on someone in lust, gouge out your eye and if your sin with your hand, cut it off. (Matthew 5:28-30)
Don't call anyone on Earth your father. (Matthew 23:9)
Don't wear jewelry. (l Timothy 2:9)
Hate your family. (Luke 14:26)
Steal your ride. (Matthew 21:1-2 )
Beat your slaves. (Luke 12:47-48)
Cherry-picking, much?
Jackson -
Why do people always resort to attacking spelling when backed into a corner? Typographical error. Go look that up. Or don't. You obviously got my point, error or not.
The homosexual population has been more or less at 10% of the total population for a very long time; it's not expanding its borders; it's always existed and is tired of being oppressed, and is now claiming it's human and civil rights. Denying marriage to gay people is not going to make them go away. Married or not, they are here to stay, are still shopping in the same stores with you, living in the same neighborhood as you, having kids, forming families, and holding hands in public. Many of them are church-going Christians.
There are over 3,000 Federal benefits that are granted to married couples, that are denied to gay couples. You can also look that up. While you're at it, look up Vegas weddings and current divorce statistics to understand why I find no validity in the claim of "sanctity" of marriage. Only love is sacred, and heterosexuals don't own that. It is discrimination to deny those rights to loving, committed couples who would get married if only they were allowed to.
There were many reasons other than religion that brought people to this country; we were a haven for criminals, indentured servants, and sons of large families who had no land inheritance to look forward to in Europe. Many were simply adventurers. You can look that up. And as you said yourself, we have a separation of church and state built into our government.
You might also want to go look up socialism and communism and perhaps understand just how far Obama and our country in general is from either of those forms of government.
I have read the Bible from cover to cover in three different versions; it was written by men over thousands of years, put together by a group of men -- the Council of Nicea, over a period of time that spanned 500+ years, and was doctored and cherry-picked by the Catholic Church to create a patriarchal society that would hold people under its grasp based on fear. My current preferred version of the Bible is the Skeptics Bible Annotated, which points out quite skillfully all the holes, contradictions, and utterly ridiculous portions of the Bible. I've also studied Biblical history, and understand the historical context of the 1st chapter of Romans, and that it had nothing to do with a loving relationship between consenting adults. I don't bother with the Old Testament passages, since they also are against shellfish, mixing meat and milk, mixing the materials in our clothing, and men cutting their beards, among many other things that Christians no longer do, yet insist on calling out just the anti-gay portions of those chapters.
While the passage in Jeremiah has nothing to do with homosexuality, if you claim it and find comfort in it, that's good; you seem to be an awfully unhappy person to be so fixated on wanting to deny some small happiness to 10% of the population.
And yes, it's absolutely true my parents were straight and that I probably would not be alive if they had been gay. My parents were life-long Democrats and Christians who subscribed to the Golden Rule --- they taught me to be tolerant of people different from me, and loved me unconditionally. You can't look that up, but I would be very happy to slap you across the face for attempting to use them against me in your arguments, a slap that you surely deserve, sir, despite my hopes you find a happy place in all your anti-gay misery.
I can't figure out from your citing of separation of church and state and then back to your claims of Judeo-Christian values, what it is you're after. Whether you're against gay marriage based on Christianity, or you're against it because you simply find it to be "icky." Maybe you're just pining for the "good old days?" Honestly, they really weren't so good for a great number of people: women, minorities, immigrants,
Romans 1: 24-32
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
I'm not asking for church rule. You see what happens when that takes place in the middle East. This nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and has strayed far away from those. That is why you see the Ten Commandments on all of our government buildings. People are working overtime to dismantle those beliefs. That is what brought the pilgrims to this land - religious freedom. The Church of England was the ruling institution in those days. Another example of why church and government are separate. Are you homosexual? I would assume so, as you have assumed that I'm 1500 years old, give or take a century here and there. There once was a time when MOST believed in God and that wasn't all that long ago. Then came Kinsey, Hefner, Steinem, et al. Then, the politically correct crowd moved in. Then, the new agers. Now, it's all about being avant garde and subscribing to the most liberal forms of thinking out there. Why is that? Obama is the flag bearer for the socialist minded. He is leading the charge for socialism, which is a starter kit for Communism. Wake up, America!
There once was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages. How old are you?
Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.....Hello
Unfortunately, you are probably correct in your statement regarding the legality of homo marriage. The homosexual community is expanding its boundaries. You are also correct in your assumption that I am intolerant of illegal behavior. You did say that homo marriage is not yet legal, albeit illegal, did you not? You are making my case for me. Thank your lucky stars that your parents didn't see things the way you do, or you may not even exist. I will claim Jeremiah 29:11-13. You can look it up if you own a bible. Or, use an online version.
Why do liberals always resort to character assassination when attempting to make a point?
Your spelling could use some work as well.
I believe Jackson is not familiar with Lawrence vs. Texas. While gay marriage may not YET be legal in all 50 states (it will be, it's just a matter of time), homosexuality is, indeed, legal in all 50 states. Despite the insecurities of a slowy-dying off generation of old, scared white men whose intoleratnt values will be obsolete in the next decade or so, I really do love my country. States aren't intolerant, Jackson, people are. Go look in the mirror.
Let me guess, Govita. You voted for our current president, who doesn't satisfy the qualifications prescribed by the constitution. Oh, wait, he doesn't believe in enforcing the constitution. He also spends an inordinate amount of time pandering to the homo community to try and stay in office. God help us if he isn't defeated in 2012. You and people like you are the reason this country is in the bowl, swirling around. Get over yourself. One of the freedoms you enjoy in this great country is to pop off your mouth. And, another one would be to move to California or Vermont or some other state that is tolerant of this disgusting practice. See ya!
Comparing Gay people to criminals is such a redneck thing to do. But the bright side of being a redneck is you don't have to move to another state to behave like a jackass. The down side is; I probably live next door to you and your hideous family and their hypocritical values.
Life is short and there is so much unhappiness in the world. To deny a couple this small bit of happiness -- to see their marriage announcement in the paper -- seems petty and cruel. Very mean-spirited. I won't even bother to express my thoughts on someone who would compare a happy couple who is harming no one to a drug dealer.
It is still illegal in the state of Texas for homosexuals to marry, until it is legal, the press has no obligation to announce the act. They may as well report the locations of local drug dealers if they are obligated to report illegal activities. If the people who are filing a so-called "discrimination" suit feel so strongly about the issue, they are more than welcome to move to a state that has legalized gay marriage. The Dallas Morning News is guilty of nothing in this situation, other than taking steps to ensure that they are acting within the law.