Are the BCTF's contract demands reasonable or unreasonable?

29 Comments

  • Dale - 12 years ago

    I believe they should fire all the teachers, hire those teachers that can't find work at the moment, BUT pay teachers 'hourly' not a salary. Plus, teachers should have to work the full year like everyone else, and if that's working for the city in any manner they wish..so be it.

  • Grace - 12 years ago

    Also, I think if we demand the goverment to give more funding to education, the funds should be allocated to the student, not to the teacher for their 15% pay increase and 6 months of pay vacation when their friends in illness.

  • Grace - 12 years ago

    agree with Alex and Douglas, I have been in a few difference website that I see a polling result that's similar with this one.
    I feel so upset to realize that the students in BC had been educated like this.

  • douglas - 12 years ago

    You know, you think to yourself, maybe I am being unreasonable, maybe despite the fact no other public sector employees are getting significant raises, and they work basically 10 months a year tops with access to very desirable benefits, maybe the BCTF is right, and B.C. teachers are hard done by in relation to the rest of Canada. Well, yes you are right, there is a huge discrepancy (this from your own website salary tables) in what a teacher in Vancouver is paid compared to one in Yellowknife, the Yukon, or Brandon. However, if you'd like to avail yourself of those admittedly considerably higher salaries, here's a suggestion, bundle up. The other pay scale differences are marginal, and not worth all the sabre rattling going on. If you want to talk class sizes, and consideration for ESL and Special needs, well maybe, but mostly it's about $$$, and if it were truly about "the kids", shouldn't it be the BCKA? This is not a personal attack against teachers, many of them do a fine job and do care, but your union lives in its own little world.

  • douglas - 12 years ago

    Isn't it interesting that this poll has support for the BCTF at 76%, but everywhere else a poll is done it comes out 50-50. Hmmmm. Look at the Globe and Mail, the union is being absolutely
    hammered on there for the hypocrisy of all this. That's what is so hard for the public and parents to swallow, is the "it's all about the kids' rhetoric. Sure it is. Again, you're not fooling
    everybody. You're certainly not "backed" by any 76%, talk about Fuzzy Math.

  • douglas - 12 years ago

    To A teacher and proud of it: It's your union leadership that people don't like. If anyone for a single solitary moment thinks it' "about the kids" for the BCTF, they are living in a dreamworld.

  • A proud teacher - 12 years ago

    In response to Douglas, I too have a Grade 2 picture with 34 children, however, in my picture, all the children are caucasian. There are no children with disabilities (in my day they were segregated and relegated to a basement room) and no visible minorities. The teachers were dealing with (mostly) English first language students. I'm not saying that former teachers had it better, but when you have 20 ESL students at varying stages of language development, 6 students who require attention because they have special needs, as well as the gifted and the unmotivated, 34 is too many. I am proud of the job that my colleagues and I do. We do amazing work under deplorable conditions. The students are learning and the teachers are teaching.

  • e taylor - 12 years ago

    Just because the comments are overwhelming pro teacher some of you claim thatthe BCTF and teachers have "hijacked" the site. Why is it so hard for you to believe that the public actually value our teachers and the important work they do? I am a parent and have nothing but admiration for teachers.

  • A Teacher and Proud of it! - 12 years ago

    Mr. Finlayson,
    your article is just plain mean spirited. I keep hearing the whole "you guys get 2 months vacation, quit your whining" even some of my friends and aquaintances have thrown that one at me. But at the same time, I have yet to meet a non teacher, or a parent who hasn't said to me or others in our profession, "oh, I don't know how you do it?" or " I could never do what you do!"
    Besides parents, teachers spend more time with your children than any other individuals. We have a huge undertaking which is systematically being undervalued and maligned by governments and media. I love my job, because I love teaching; the variety, the different situations and all the varying challenges I face every day that I set foot in my class. That's why I am a teacher. I have two degrees, I am a professional. Yes, I want a raise and more services and supports in the classroom. Children are coming to school more needy than ever. We need smaller class sizes and more support within. The governments have the resources, it is just a matter of making an investment in the youth of our province. I like to hear a little less teacher bashing.

  • Mollie - 12 years ago

    Teachers are raising your children. No one enters that profession for the benefits. They enter it because they have the largest hearts, and instead of standing around and being ignorant, they get involved and do everything in their power to make a difference. The reason you don't think your teacher ever had a problem is because they put YOU first. If you don't remember them complaining then they did far beyond what their job calls for and dealt with the hardship. Teachers work 24/7, they spend all they have and sacrifice everything they can for YOUR children. We all had a favourite teacher in school, one that made a difference and taught us the world was waiting for us. They prepared us, that’s the teacher we are fighting for. So take your grade two picture and stick it on the mantle where it belongs because that teacher is a hero and deserves more. I spent all my public education years being FAILED, drop kicked and left behind by the BC government, it’s time for a change and it is time for us as a province to stand behind our teachers beacuse they at least deserve that.

  • douglas - 12 years ago

    So happens, I just looked at a picture of my Grade 2 elementary class, there are 33 of us in
    the picture. COUNT EM!! Thirty-three, and I never heard a peep from any of my elementary school teachers, and they never seemed to have any problem doing their job. The next time
    I hear the BCTF claim it's about the kids, could someone please laugh in the union leadership's face, not in the teacher's face but in the union leadership's. It's about getting a better deal for your membership, and about fricking money. You aren't fooling anybody.

  • douglas - 12 years ago

    22 kids in a kindergarten class is hardly outrageous, also the fact you get the salary you do for 10 months work, doesn't strengthen your case. By the way if you think 73% to 27% in favour of the BCTF's demands is representative of public opinion, you're very naiive. The poll is cooked, you
    can vote more than once, and the union has made sure they have good voter "turnout". By the way, I do feel that a 6 month bereavement leave if a squirrel gets run over somewhere is quite "reasonable". Spend some time in the private sector world, where I think I need more money or I plan to "adjust" how I do my job, would be met with a very rapid "we'll get somebody else".

  • Lisa - 12 years ago

    Pretty sneaky to put a poll like this right after an article bashing the BCTF...who would side with teachers after reading that one sided article? I am a concerned parent who can see what teachers deal with every day. Teachers have a right to their contract back and my child has a right to better learning condions, not least of all a smaller class size (which was stripped from teachers' contracts!) The class sizes as they stand are outrageous, there are 22 children in my daughter's kindergarten class, with one teacher. I can only imagine how much attention is able to be given to each student. It is in teachers' intrests to have our kids' intrests come first, which is what they are asking for in these contract negotiations for a fully funded education system. Think about it, it can only BENIFIT our children, which THEY deserve! Thank goodness for the BCTF, at least someone is fighting FOR learning conditions in BC schools.

  • gil - 12 years ago

    Let's get this straight! As my pay statement indicates, teachers are paid for daily work, for the equivalent of 10 months out of the year. We get 2 weeks of paid holiday at Christmas, and 1 week at spring break, and some stat holidays (like any other government employee). That's it! Some districts have elongated the work day (read daily instructional time) in order to keep schools closed an extra week at spring break to save money on utilities. This would be like working overtime to bank a few days off.
    The 2 months in the summer are unpaid holidays. Teachers must budget for these two months, during the entire school year. Some seek employment in the summer in order to make ends meet. Let's stop this "they get 12 weeks of paid vacation time" talk.
    As far as our pension plan, and benefits, I pay for these every month thank you. I am still wondering what was meant by "Perks".

  • darren - 12 years ago

    Typical underhanded tactics of BCTF. Its all about the kids... ya right. These are the people in charge of teaching our youth, nice. The reason you teachers think the demands are so reasonable is because you have never had to survive in the real world you have been in school your whole lives. Try working in the private sector and see what kind of "perks" you get. You make a good wage you have great perks, shut up and consider yourself lucky.

  • Douglas - 12 years ago

    I see the BCTF membership has gotten on here and done their part in the voting poll.

  • Scott - 12 years ago

    Ah Ha! Judging by the posts as well as the survey results it's abundantly evedent that this article has been highjacked by a group of teachers & unions

  • Jean - 12 years ago

    Alex,
    Spend some time in a classroom before you judge. Why do you want BC kids to be left behind? Teachers deserve fair compensation. Education needs to be properly funded. This message is from a parent, not a union "stormer" as you may think.

  • E taylor - 12 years ago

    Why do you assume that people who are pro-teacher are union members? I am a parent and I have seen the learning conditions in my child's classroom deteriorate since the Liberals removed limits on the number of students in a class and the number of special needs students in a class. I support our teachers and our public education system!

  • Virginia - 12 years ago

    You seem to forget that this is about more than a pay raise for teacher (yikes, how dare anyone ask for a pay raise). This is about having a contract stripped illegally and not being able to negotiate working conditions for both the teachers and the students. It would be helpful to present the full story for a change.

  • Susan Davis - 12 years ago

    Cost of living and market adjustments seem like a reasonable salary case to me.
    It is also reasonable to expect the government to support with adequate funding its own legislation regarding class size and special needs inclusion.
    What is unreasonable is a long list of demands for concessions and a refusal to address the real needs of the education system in contract discussions.
    I went to the first of many Vancouver School Board budget cutting meetings in 1979. The government's underfunding of education and offloading of cost to local boards hasn't let up since- 33 years !
    How about a Province poll on whether or not the government's contract demands are reasonable or unreasonable?

  • Daryl Sturdy - 12 years ago

    I'm a retired teacher and I'd like to take exception to some of Mr. Finlayson's comments. I suppose comparing BC teachers' salaries with the other 9 provinces and 3 territories is arguable. However it would be interesting to look at the cost of housing in those other areas. With the majority of teachers being in the Lower Mainland, that is a considerable item.

    He doesn't mention how long it takes to arrive at a maximum salary, conveniently. This is an anomaly that other occupations don't face. It would be interesting to know, taking the 5 year training time into consideration, how long it would take a teacher to catch up, in earnings, with someone in the trades.

    Mr. Finlayson also chooses to look at a relatively short period of time when mentioning 14% increase in salary. It would be interesting to know what the stats would show if he took a period of 20 or 30 years.

    Is it a fair comparison to look at the average compensation of BC workers compared to other provinces and use that in judging fair compensation for BC teachers. The work forces in other provinces could have a different make-up than BC's. Also, he doesn't mention how far behind the 1st, 2nd and 3rd provinces BC is.

    Holidays! I assume that most workers have paid holidays. BC teachers don't.

    Finally, I wonder what Mr. Finlayson's compensation is.

  • Judy - 12 years ago

    Alex, it is funny how when you see that there is actual public support out there for teachers versus the slanted media portrayal of how most people don't support the teachers you assume it is the "Union". Geez, maybe you should open your ears and inform yourself because if you did and realized what dire state the classrooms are in in terms of cutbacks to special education support, learning assistance and English as a Second Language, you would realize this government has done nothing but strip public education year after year. Wake up! After 14 years of teaching it is sickening to see what a difference a "regular" classroom has become. I have 2 students with autism, a non-verbal student, a student with mental disorder and not to mention the ESL students with no english and typical learning assistance students all in my "regular" classroom. How can learning possibly happen in this environment? I work myself to death and in the end of the day I hear uninformed comments such as your's and wonder why do we teachers keep giving so much of ourselves. We are not magicians. Eventually the kids will suffer. Inform yourself and visit your local school just to have a look and you'll see very quickly what the cutbacks have done.

  • Judy - 12 years ago

    Alex, it is funny how when you see that there is actual public support out there for teachers versus the slanted media portrayal of how most people don't support the teachers you assume it is the "Union". Geez, maybe you should open your ears and inform yourself because if you did and realized what dire state the classrooms are in in terms of cutbacks to special education support, learning assistance and English as a Second Language, you would realize this government has done nothing but strip public education year after year. Wake up! After 14 years of teaching it is sickening to see what a difference a "regular" classroom has become. I have 2 students with autism, a non-verbal student, a student with mental disorder and not to mention the ESL students with no english and typical learning assistance students all in my "regular" classroom. How can learning possibly happen in this environment? I work myself to death and in the end of the day I hear uninformed comments such as your's and wonder why do we teachers keep giving so much of ourselves. We are not magicians. Eventually the kids will suffer. Inform yourself and visit your local school just to have a look and you'll see very quickly what the cutbacks have done.

  • KR - 12 years ago

    Why don't we deal in reality rather than whatever facts make your point? I have 7 years of University education (and the debt to show for it) and have been teaching for 3 years now. My annual income has yet to be over $30,000 and it was $11,000 the first year. I also live in Victoria which means I cannot live on my income alone. If we want to attract hardworking, creative and imaginative new teachers for the long term, we have to do better. A salary that keeps up with inflation is not too much to ask, it's so absurd that we even have to fight for that. The extra 6% is only trying to compensate for the loss we took for better class size and composition.

    Because of class size/comp and lack of prep time I have to OPT for small contracts to keep my head above water and maintain my sanity. And I am no wimp, I have a degree in science and I know what hard work looks like. I'd love to see this blogger survive a week in my shoes.

  • mina - 12 years ago

    This governement don't respect teachers and public schools at all. He must listen to the teacher if he want the province to prospert.

  • Greg Canning - 12 years ago

    I gave up raises in pay to secure an agreement that gave me smaller class sizes and more support for ESL and Special Needs students. This additional support not only helped me deliver a better product but also gave the students the attention they deserve. I have been teaching for 17 years now and I can honestly say the public system is under attack by this provincial government. Working and learning conditions should improve over time and this has not happened for teachers in BC. Should I be compensated for provisions of my collective agreement that were fairly negociated and yet stripped by this government? Yes.

  • adam - 12 years ago

    I like how there is a question about the BCTF's contract demands in a place in the article where only monetary compensation has been discussed. The teachers have shown again and again that they will take less pay for better class composition. Would the media please give fair representation?

  • Alex - 12 years ago

    Clearly the Union stormed this site, as early on the amount of people who didn't agree were around the 79 percent range.

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