I voted other in your poll. The prevailing political mantra is to blame Bush. Best achieved by democrats who go along with Bush initiated proposals, putting politics before what's best for the nation. To illustrate, let's use the $700 Billion Bailout Bill. Democrats could have passed this alone. Fewer democrats than house republicans stood up against the first iteration of the bailout bill.
Also the democrat controlled senate repackaged this bailout bill after it failed in the House, Constitutionally dead. No provision for this procedure in the Constitution, especially with the Senate originating revenue clauses.
Article I, Clause 7, Section 1:
"All Bills for Raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other bills."
Even the House rules state that any revenue provision must have impact studies attached or done by the chairman (Barney Frank).
Please see House Rule XIII, (h)(1)- h(2) (House Rules available here http://www.house.gov/house/Orgops.shtml) to better understand how even their own rules prohibited H.R. 3997 from being considered in the first place.
Further note the use of "vehicles:"
"This is the House's September 2008 Economic Stimulus Relief Bill. This bill was originally introduced in October 2007 and passed both the House and Senate in December as the Defenders of Freedom Tax Relief Act of 2007. In September 2008, it was co-opted as the so-called "vehicle" to pass the relief bill with an amendment that rewrites the whole bill. However, the Senate passed its vehicle H.R. 1424 before the House could reach agreement on this bill."
Further still, the amendments to the Senate version do amend the income tax laws.
Here is the title of the Dodd amendment that "filled" S. 3197, a senate originating bill, "S.Amdt. 5685: In the nature of a substitute." located at http://www.govtrack.us/congress/amendment.xpd?session=110&amdt=s5685
The Senate Amendment is to a Senate Bill and not to the House bill nor containing the provisions of the House bill alone but include provisions for "Raising the Revenue," which weren't in the original House bill that failed, and also includes Amendments to the Income Tax Act of 1986 which, prior to the House voting on any bill with any such provisions must meet the requirement of the House Rules XIII (h) (1) and (h) (2). I have yet to see any such reports produced from the original act, and no such requirement pursuant to the House Rules would apply to Senate determinations and amendments to Amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, and this to me is the big deal about this.
And this wasn't a caving in to the President, it was to assure a laundry list of items received little debate before being passed:
List of Revenue provisions, changes to the Tax Code made by the Senate after they repackaged the Bailout Bill that also appear to invoke the limitations of Article I, Section 7, Clause 1 of the United States Constitution:
"TITLE IV--REVENUE PROVISIONS
Sec..401..Limitation of deduction for income attributable to domestic production of oil, gas, or primary products thereof.
Sec..402..Elimination of the different treatment of foreign oil and gas extraction income and foreign oil related income for purposes of the foreign tax credit.
Sec..403..Broker reporting of customer's basis in securities transactions.
Sec..404..0.2 percent FUTA surtax.
Sec..405..Increase and extension of Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund tax."
The Bailout represents Democrats standing up to Bush.
What are democratic ideals? It's impossible for any one party to know the best way to achieve the greatest good for the greatest number because of the law of unintended consequences. So much is out of our control, it's sheer hubris to think we can control life. The best we can do is to try to smooth out the ruts a little bit, but even that is no guarantee that we don't cause more damage.
Charlie - 16 years ago
Liberals are all about "FEELINGS" You can't live like that. There must be responsible action. That being said, What has government ever done for the people??
Not one person in government is going to be able to "FIX" your life. That is up to you and you alone. People whine and complain about this and that but what is that individual doing about his or her own life??
We all have the right for "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." Where does it say that we have the right to have what everyone else has? or the right to be what everyone else is? We have the opportunities is this country to be who and what we choose to be according to our innate abilities-assuming that we were endowed by our Creator with them.
Now where have I heard of taking from the rich and giving to the poor? Some have romanticized Robin Hood. But It sounds more socialist or communist to me. And they are rife with corruption because the power is based in only a handful of people and the rest get repressed instead.
People had better wake up soon and realize that it is up to each of us to take care of our own house and that the government is not supposed to be in my back pocket or controlling who and what I can do or be. This is not about anarchy. It's about personal responsibility.
working man - 16 years ago
Its absolutely ridiculous for anybody who is not a millionaire or richer to believe in libertarian trickle down nonsense. And even if you are sinfully rich, you shouldn't joke yourself with this fake philosophy.
Evils exist in government not just because of 'human nature' or some mythical inherant evil attatched to 'government'. We could enforce regulation of politicians and stop pork barrel spending. We could also enforce environmental laws and labor laws and equal treatment of women and people of different cultures. We could use taxes to help people with serious problems, like having their city destroyed by a hurricane, or being born poor and malnourished, or having cancer. OR WE COULD SAY 'government isn't the answer, it's the problem' and 'the only freedom is the freedom to run away and hide from government, freedom to vote or protest or strike and change government for the better doesn't exist' and let billionaires and the politicians they own control our lives, control our media and our military, create war for no reason other than profit and use our tax dollars to fund it, literally taking our taxes and putting it all in their pockets instead of using it to benefit we the people. People these days blame everything on 'the government' , its mccarthyist propaganda, look at who owns your government, you think its just the puppet politicians?
And for the anti-tax freaks, that think taking some of the billionaires money and giving it back to the workers and consumers hes taken it from, give me a break. The industrial revolution and the capitalist religion produced the gilded age, robber barons, ect; before that there were kings and emperors that were appointed by bloodline... There has throughout history been times when wealth redistribution has been required because the gap between the rich and the poor is ridiculous. The rich and powerful were a tiny minority and the poor and powerless were most of the population. The only peaceful way of redistributing wealth out of the hands of tyrants and back into the hands of the people is taxing the shit out of them.
This Bush administration & this Congress along with other presidential administrations and other Congresses are doing and have been doing what they are doing and have been doing in order to bring about one world government, the New World Order, the Fourth Reich in America. Look up the Amero, similar in nature to the Euro in Europe, on the internet. Look up David Rockefellar in Wikipedia. See the "Matrix of Power," 67 minutes, on Google Video. Read the recently published book, "The Rise of the Fourth Reich: The Secret Societies that Threaten to Take Over America" by Jim Marrs.
I agree with Bob. "Democrats need a 60-40 senatorial majority to effectively pass new legislation. Hopefully, in the 2008 election..." Plus Bush threatens the veto alot.
B0b B - 16 years ago
The leadership is weak and lacks direction. I would also say that citizens need to communicate with their Senators or representatives to give them direction. You need to participate in this democracy. This what will save our country.
The voting public failed to vote for a Democrat majority large enough to override a presidential veto or other rules of order. There must be a two thirds majority, not just a simple fifty one percent majority. Stupid Public! Vote correctly next time.
Ryan - 16 years ago
It's election year! The Democratic house hasn't accomplished anything over the last 2 years, and they are scrambling to build a record.
XDEM - 16 years ago
They are not caving. They are holding the American people hostage. If they can do nothing and keep the gas prices high and the economy in trouble they feel they can win the election. They lied about getting out of Iraq to win in 2006, why would they not lie now to win in 08
Bob Asbury - 16 years ago
Democrats need a 60-40 senatorial majority to effectively pass new legislation. Hopefully, in the 2008 election...
Dee - 16 years ago
It may simply be time for a massive overhaul. Congress is no longer doing the job that it was created to do. Back to Government 101. Check it and Balance it. Remove the leg to save the body. Then replace it. Cut their paychecks into 1/4 its current size. And let people who truly want to do the job do it. Let them fight for it. And let them do their jobs or get fired. The United States cannot stand for what is going on in Congress today. If it lasts the country will not.
Gary - 16 years ago
The Leadership (Polosi and Reid) understand that they have to keep things going as they whack away at Bush's ability to stop legislation. I think they have the courage for most liberals to think they've been sold out while losing some battles to win strategic victories; you see some bills vetoed being overriden now, and the Republican leadership is losing some rats who are getting off of their ship.
What the Hell did we think would happen? Aren't we supposed to be smarter than they are? The Presidency has become so powerful now that both Houses must walk carefully; but the Bush Admin is its own worst enemy.
Have a little patience and a little courage, Libs, and you will be able to have more faith in our Leadership. Sure they make mistakes, but considering what they have been up against, I think they have done a magnificent job !!
silver fog - 16 years ago
They cave because they don't have the power. There aren't enough Dems. to block Bush's veto pen.
nobodyspatsy - 16 years ago
Its not whether you win or lose - for the consequences of losing are just too high
Brandy - 16 years ago
Maybe they are beginning to see the light but, it's more likely that they plan to find a way to blame Bush for some perceived error, again, and this is just part of a Left Wing plan.
The Dems always have several cards up their collective sleeve to usurp & muddy any action or move taken by this administration and you can be sure there are more groundless accusations yet to be tossed out to America and the world.
My question is 'why doesn't someone ever make them back up the bile they spew nonstop?'. Unfortunately it's probably too late to save us this time around & hopefully American voters will wake up and see through the BS.
KDB - 16 years ago
The main reason Democrats appear to have caved in to the Republican administration: They are incompetent, power-hungry boobs. Well, maybe not all of them, but certainly the leadership is.
Term limits time.
Julio - 16 years ago
They're not "caving" to the Republican administration. They're caving to the same forces that Republicans have already caved to. AIPAC and Israel.
BIG AL - 16 years ago
Dems are afraid they will get cought up in any criminal investigations. After all, Dems were part of the committees where the dasterdly deeds were formulated, even if they were a minority. The Reps will just say "well, you were there, why didn't you speak up if it was so wrong?".
Pippy - 16 years ago
Because they want to get re-elected, Democrats have become the party of Marx, and the American people DO NOT AGREE WITH THEM!
Pat - 16 years ago
Having the current Republican regime in office is beneficial to the Democrats. The worse the Republicans look, the better they look. I hope this is the case, and this will lead to a complete Democratic sweep of our legislative, judicial, and executive branches.
big daddy - 16 years ago
Even dems. know, when someones right they're right
Debbie - 16 years ago
Read the book, "Rome Wasn't Burned in a Day", by Joe Scarborough and you will know exactly what is wrong with Congress. Pork barrell projects, caving into lobbyists for campaign contributions, supporting crumby bills so the other spineless congressman will support yours, not having any moral underpinings, not having any idea as to the history of this country, and therefore, not having any idea as to the direction or form the future of this country should have. Goofs like Al Gore who take snippets of research, turn it into a fear mongering mantra and make millions off it. It is all very disgraceful, and is harming America. Not that congressmen care. They are fiddiling while Rome is burning.
Lester T - 16 years ago
The problem the Democrats have is that they think they can take care of people better than they can themselves! Roll back government size and let me take care of myself!
J K - 16 years ago
With only a couple of exceptions the members of Congress do not have any moral underpinnings or true political philosophy which guides them. Why have they not voted to repeal the Congressional exemption from Social Security? Why do they have their own, superior health insurance? Why is there no serious discussion on the SMART act for Social Security/Medicare reform? Why is there no serious discussion of the "Fair Tax"? (Maybe because part of the "Fair Tax" involves a drastic reduction in the power of Congress?). Why are school vouchers which would help everyone, especially the poor, derided by the Democrats and some Republicans?
We live in a time totally devoid of people with vision and guts. But to be fair a society gets the government they deserve. Americans are lazy and fat for the most part. Everyone just sits on there backside and watches TV while bitching all the while. It is time for a new Revolution. This one may only be of ideas and values but it is time!!
Scott R - 16 years ago
Phil Gramm is right and you know it!
shelly - 16 years ago
This Congress has done absolutely NOTHING - NADA - ZILCH! They are abusing their power and have misled the people who put their trust in them. Like Donald Trump would say, "You're fired!"
Democratic (misspelled "Democrat" in the poll) values are not, in fact, Democratic. The ideas for which the Democratic Party are most known were taken from the Progressive Party in the forties.
The DP used PP's ideas to get elected. That is all there is to it.
Ever since nineteen eighty, the politicians have all been serving Big Money exclusively. This is not news, but it is disgusting!
Delta Gulf - 16 years ago
Other than Ron Paul, Congress blows with the wind. They have no convictions and no accountability. Their foundation is built on relativism, humanism and materialism. They see the Constitution as a relic of an era of ignorance and Secular Socialism as the savior of America. We could all use a history lesson and a good dose of humility. And as long as Nancy and Harry are running the show you can bet were gonna get one!
I voted other in your poll. The prevailing political mantra is to blame Bush. Best achieved by democrats who go along with Bush initiated proposals, putting politics before what's best for the nation. To illustrate, let's use the $700 Billion Bailout Bill. Democrats could have passed this alone. Fewer democrats than house republicans stood up against the first iteration of the bailout bill.
Also the democrat controlled senate repackaged this bailout bill after it failed in the House, Constitutionally dead. No provision for this procedure in the Constitution, especially with the Senate originating revenue clauses.
Article I, Clause 7, Section 1:
"All Bills for Raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other bills."
Even the House rules state that any revenue provision must have impact studies attached or done by the chairman (Barney Frank).
Please see House Rule XIII, (h)(1)- h(2) (House Rules available here http://www.house.gov/house/Orgops.shtml) to better understand how even their own rules prohibited H.R. 3997 from being considered in the first place.
Further note the use of "vehicles:"
"This is the House's September 2008 Economic Stimulus Relief Bill. This bill was originally introduced in October 2007 and passed both the House and Senate in December as the Defenders of Freedom Tax Relief Act of 2007. In September 2008, it was co-opted as the so-called "vehicle" to pass the relief bill with an amendment that rewrites the whole bill. However, the Senate passed its vehicle H.R. 1424 before the House could reach agreement on this bill."
Further still, the amendments to the Senate version do amend the income tax laws.
Here is the title of the Dodd amendment that "filled" S. 3197, a senate originating bill, "S.Amdt. 5685: In the nature of a substitute." located at http://www.govtrack.us/congress/amendment.xpd?session=110&amdt=s5685
The Senate Amendment is to a Senate Bill and not to the House bill nor containing the provisions of the House bill alone but include provisions for "Raising the Revenue," which weren't in the original House bill that failed, and also includes Amendments to the Income Tax Act of 1986 which, prior to the House voting on any bill with any such provisions must meet the requirement of the House Rules XIII (h) (1) and (h) (2). I have yet to see any such reports produced from the original act, and no such requirement pursuant to the House Rules would apply to Senate determinations and amendments to Amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, and this to me is the big deal about this.
And this wasn't a caving in to the President, it was to assure a laundry list of items received little debate before being passed:
List of Revenue provisions, changes to the Tax Code made by the Senate after they repackaged the Bailout Bill that also appear to invoke the limitations of Article I, Section 7, Clause 1 of the United States Constitution:
"TITLE IV--REVENUE PROVISIONS
Sec..401..Limitation of deduction for income attributable to domestic production of oil, gas, or primary products thereof.
Sec..402..Elimination of the different treatment of foreign oil and gas extraction income and foreign oil related income for purposes of the foreign tax credit.
Sec..403..Broker reporting of customer's basis in securities transactions.
Sec..404..0.2 percent FUTA surtax.
Sec..405..Increase and extension of Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund tax."
The Bailout represents Democrats standing up to Bush.
What are democratic ideals? It's impossible for any one party to know the best way to achieve the greatest good for the greatest number because of the law of unintended consequences. So much is out of our control, it's sheer hubris to think we can control life. The best we can do is to try to smooth out the ruts a little bit, but even that is no guarantee that we don't cause more damage.
Liberals are all about "FEELINGS" You can't live like that. There must be responsible action. That being said, What has government ever done for the people??
Not one person in government is going to be able to "FIX" your life. That is up to you and you alone. People whine and complain about this and that but what is that individual doing about his or her own life??
We all have the right for "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." Where does it say that we have the right to have what everyone else has? or the right to be what everyone else is? We have the opportunities is this country to be who and what we choose to be according to our innate abilities-assuming that we were endowed by our Creator with them.
Now where have I heard of taking from the rich and giving to the poor? Some have romanticized Robin Hood. But It sounds more socialist or communist to me. And they are rife with corruption because the power is based in only a handful of people and the rest get repressed instead.
People had better wake up soon and realize that it is up to each of us to take care of our own house and that the government is not supposed to be in my back pocket or controlling who and what I can do or be. This is not about anarchy. It's about personal responsibility.
Its absolutely ridiculous for anybody who is not a millionaire or richer to believe in libertarian trickle down nonsense. And even if you are sinfully rich, you shouldn't joke yourself with this fake philosophy.
Evils exist in government not just because of 'human nature' or some mythical inherant evil attatched to 'government'. We could enforce regulation of politicians and stop pork barrel spending. We could also enforce environmental laws and labor laws and equal treatment of women and people of different cultures. We could use taxes to help people with serious problems, like having their city destroyed by a hurricane, or being born poor and malnourished, or having cancer. OR WE COULD SAY 'government isn't the answer, it's the problem' and 'the only freedom is the freedom to run away and hide from government, freedom to vote or protest or strike and change government for the better doesn't exist' and let billionaires and the politicians they own control our lives, control our media and our military, create war for no reason other than profit and use our tax dollars to fund it, literally taking our taxes and putting it all in their pockets instead of using it to benefit we the people. People these days blame everything on 'the government' , its mccarthyist propaganda, look at who owns your government, you think its just the puppet politicians?
And for the anti-tax freaks, that think taking some of the billionaires money and giving it back to the workers and consumers hes taken it from, give me a break. The industrial revolution and the capitalist religion produced the gilded age, robber barons, ect; before that there were kings and emperors that were appointed by bloodline... There has throughout history been times when wealth redistribution has been required because the gap between the rich and the poor is ridiculous. The rich and powerful were a tiny minority and the poor and powerless were most of the population. The only peaceful way of redistributing wealth out of the hands of tyrants and back into the hands of the people is taxing the shit out of them.
This Bush administration & this Congress along with other presidential administrations and other Congresses are doing and have been doing what they are doing and have been doing in order to bring about one world government, the New World Order, the Fourth Reich in America. Look up the Amero, similar in nature to the Euro in Europe, on the internet. Look up David Rockefellar in Wikipedia. See the "Matrix of Power," 67 minutes, on Google Video. Read the recently published book, "The Rise of the Fourth Reich: The Secret Societies that Threaten to Take Over America" by Jim Marrs.
I agree with Bob. "Democrats need a 60-40 senatorial majority to effectively pass new legislation. Hopefully, in the 2008 election..." Plus Bush threatens the veto alot.
The leadership is weak and lacks direction. I would also say that citizens need to communicate with their Senators or representatives to give them direction. You need to participate in this democracy. This what will save our country.
The voting public failed to vote for a Democrat majority large enough to override a presidential veto or other rules of order. There must be a two thirds majority, not just a simple fifty one percent majority. Stupid Public! Vote correctly next time.
It's election year! The Democratic house hasn't accomplished anything over the last 2 years, and they are scrambling to build a record.
They are not caving. They are holding the American people hostage. If they can do nothing and keep the gas prices high and the economy in trouble they feel they can win the election. They lied about getting out of Iraq to win in 2006, why would they not lie now to win in 08
Democrats need a 60-40 senatorial majority to effectively pass new legislation. Hopefully, in the 2008 election...
It may simply be time for a massive overhaul. Congress is no longer doing the job that it was created to do. Back to Government 101. Check it and Balance it. Remove the leg to save the body. Then replace it. Cut their paychecks into 1/4 its current size. And let people who truly want to do the job do it. Let them fight for it. And let them do their jobs or get fired. The United States cannot stand for what is going on in Congress today. If it lasts the country will not.
The Leadership (Polosi and Reid) understand that they have to keep things going as they whack away at Bush's ability to stop legislation. I think they have the courage for most liberals to think they've been sold out while losing some battles to win strategic victories; you see some bills vetoed being overriden now, and the Republican leadership is losing some rats who are getting off of their ship.
What the Hell did we think would happen? Aren't we supposed to be smarter than they are? The Presidency has become so powerful now that both Houses must walk carefully; but the Bush Admin is its own worst enemy.
Have a little patience and a little courage, Libs, and you will be able to have more faith in our Leadership. Sure they make mistakes, but considering what they have been up against, I think they have done a magnificent job !!
They cave because they don't have the power. There aren't enough Dems. to block Bush's veto pen.
Its not whether you win or lose - for the consequences of losing are just too high
Maybe they are beginning to see the light but, it's more likely that they plan to find a way to blame Bush for some perceived error, again, and this is just part of a Left Wing plan.
The Dems always have several cards up their collective sleeve to usurp & muddy any action or move taken by this administration and you can be sure there are more groundless accusations yet to be tossed out to America and the world.
My question is 'why doesn't someone ever make them back up the bile they spew nonstop?'. Unfortunately it's probably too late to save us this time around & hopefully American voters will wake up and see through the BS.
The main reason Democrats appear to have caved in to the Republican administration: They are incompetent, power-hungry boobs. Well, maybe not all of them, but certainly the leadership is.
Term limits time.
They're not "caving" to the Republican administration. They're caving to the same forces that Republicans have already caved to. AIPAC and Israel.
Dems are afraid they will get cought up in any criminal investigations. After all, Dems were part of the committees where the dasterdly deeds were formulated, even if they were a minority. The Reps will just say "well, you were there, why didn't you speak up if it was so wrong?".
Because they want to get re-elected, Democrats have become the party of Marx, and the American people DO NOT AGREE WITH THEM!
Having the current Republican regime in office is beneficial to the Democrats. The worse the Republicans look, the better they look. I hope this is the case, and this will lead to a complete Democratic sweep of our legislative, judicial, and executive branches.
Even dems. know, when someones right they're right
Read the book, "Rome Wasn't Burned in a Day", by Joe Scarborough and you will know exactly what is wrong with Congress. Pork barrell projects, caving into lobbyists for campaign contributions, supporting crumby bills so the other spineless congressman will support yours, not having any moral underpinings, not having any idea as to the history of this country, and therefore, not having any idea as to the direction or form the future of this country should have. Goofs like Al Gore who take snippets of research, turn it into a fear mongering mantra and make millions off it. It is all very disgraceful, and is harming America. Not that congressmen care. They are fiddiling while Rome is burning.
The problem the Democrats have is that they think they can take care of people better than they can themselves! Roll back government size and let me take care of myself!
With only a couple of exceptions the members of Congress do not have any moral underpinnings or true political philosophy which guides them. Why have they not voted to repeal the Congressional exemption from Social Security? Why do they have their own, superior health insurance? Why is there no serious discussion on the SMART act for Social Security/Medicare reform? Why is there no serious discussion of the "Fair Tax"? (Maybe because part of the "Fair Tax" involves a drastic reduction in the power of Congress?). Why are school vouchers which would help everyone, especially the poor, derided by the Democrats and some Republicans?
We live in a time totally devoid of people with vision and guts. But to be fair a society gets the government they deserve. Americans are lazy and fat for the most part. Everyone just sits on there backside and watches TV while bitching all the while. It is time for a new Revolution. This one may only be of ideas and values but it is time!!
Phil Gramm is right and you know it!
This Congress has done absolutely NOTHING - NADA - ZILCH! They are abusing their power and have misled the people who put their trust in them. Like Donald Trump would say, "You're fired!"
Democratic (misspelled "Democrat" in the poll) values are not, in fact, Democratic. The ideas for which the Democratic Party are most known were taken from the Progressive Party in the forties.
The DP used PP's ideas to get elected. That is all there is to it.
Ever since nineteen eighty, the politicians have all been serving Big Money exclusively. This is not news, but it is disgusting!
Other than Ron Paul, Congress blows with the wind. They have no convictions and no accountability. Their foundation is built on relativism, humanism and materialism. They see the Constitution as a relic of an era of ignorance and Secular Socialism as the savior of America. We could all use a history lesson and a good dose of humility. And as long as Nancy and Harry are running the show you can bet were gonna get one!