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no, quite simply there is enough people already there fighting that fight. we should take the moral high road and aim diplomacy at saudi arabia.
Terry Rafferty, you are full of it. You claim your son is a Military Cross holder, yet nobody with your surname has ever received an MC. You claim to be ex Army, yet you use language and insults any true service veteran would be ashamed of. Your arguments are a joke, your reasoning non-existent. Jog on and play with your Action Man, because that's the closest you'll ever get to your country's uniform.
We have bombed Daish in Iraq for months with no success. Daish are still sitting where they were when we started - no difference. The only victories have been by the Kurds brave and valiant efforts - sabotaged by Turkey and our failure to give them proper weapons in case that upsets the two faced Turkish government. Our pathetic force of 6 Tornados have done nothing effective that I've heard of and still let Daish freely extract and sell oil. Don't take on a second job when you haven't even started the first properly! Just more Posturing crap from Cameron.
As for those 'ex-soldiers' who think that all British wars are justified by definition - it just shows you don't need to think in order to be a soldier - in fact it's probably a handicap! Real warriors hate war and know it should be avoided if at all possible.
Greetings Tree huggers and the Great Unwashed. I should'nt have to come on here and defend my Military Service. Hundreds of my former comrades would do that for me. I served a total of 24 yrs in the Army which included 6 tours of Northern Ireland. A Falklands war and Siera Lione and Bosnia thrown in for good measure. The vast majority of my former comrades like me want IS obliterated once and for all. The only civilians left in Syria are the ones who support IS. The rest are all swamping Europe as we speak. !!!!
You can't 'bomb' an ideology out of existence. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Egypt are in utter chaos because of our meddling. The age of British Imperialism has to end. The way to stop this blood-lust on our part, is to legally challenge any decision made in the courts. Cameron does not have a mandate for military action and he knows it.
I would completely support the government if we were to take the fight to ISIL but I am completely against helping ISIL by bombing more innocent civilians and helping the US etc. recruit more fighters for ISIL. Each innocent woman and child that dies with each bomb has brothers, a father and uncles that then want to fight back against us. They will join the only opposition they can, ISIL. There are lots of way to fight ISIL but instead the David Cameron wants to help them in a recruitment drive. The first thing he should be doing is stopping their trade. Stop the oil convoys to Turkey and Israel. He will not even talk about that. At Putin will talk about how to really hurt ISIL but the main trouble in the west is that the people in power in the west make money from the war rather than desire a solution. ISIL are also selling the stolen artefacts, without income they cannot pay their soldiers. These are not Muslim warriors, they are mercenaries who will join another group if the money dries up. That is why the first thing ISIL did was capture the oil fields. Finally it will only end with soldiers on the ground and aid to help the people rebuild. Soldiers that will kill terrorists instead of innocent civilians in the way bombs mainly kill the innocent. Non military aid workers are the most important part as if we do not rebuild the country into somewhere that the people feel safe to raise children they will only fight again. Stop the dumb propaganda about Assad, he is not the cause of the problem. The problem is the west arming the terrorists. We caused this problem and we have a moral duty to solve it rather than make it worse by destroying more and killing more.
Terry Rafferty, you really are a dick. How can you obliterate daesh with blanket bombing in Syria, when anyone with half a working brain cell (which I appreciate does not include you) knows that they are spread across international borders all around the world.
I am firmly against any involvement with US in Syria for the simple reason that it is the U.S. with compliant allies that fermented these wars in the Middle East for their own geopolitical purpose. This has been confirmed publically by General Wesley Clark, former Supreme Commander of NATO, on CNN and other media outlets as well as other senior military figures. This information is publically available to anyone on the Internet if they care to search for it.
The U.S. wilfully stood by whilst its allies in the Middle East, principally Saudi Arabia, Qatar and others including countries in the G20 funded, armed, trained, supplied, aided and abetted ISIS. Why? Because the U.S. and it's Middle Eastern allies with the complicity of Turkey, UK and France believed that ISIS would compliment U.S. backed militias in their main objective to illegally overthrow the Assad regime. This was made apparent by President Obama himself when he affirmed that the U.S. strategy was to contain ISIS rather than annihilate them as President Putin is now doing.
Over a period of 16 months according to a CFR source the U.S. launched over 8000 attacks on ISIS killing it says 20,000 "suspected terrorists" which if you do the maths is 2.5 terrorists per attack, an utterly ridiculous return on resources! Furthermore during that first 16 months it never once launched an air strike on a single fleet of oil tankers transporting oil from captured fields to Turkey a NATO ally, despite the fact that according to President Putin, from a height of 4-5000 feet these convoys stretched into the horizon and resembled an oil pipeline. Nor did the U.S. and it's allies carry out any strikes against ISIS oil fields/depots!
There is much more information available that substantiates Western duplicity in regard to the mayhem and murder that now affects Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and Lebanon. You will also note that neither the Gulf states nor Israel have been affected by ISIS. It is clear that the West led by the U.S. has made a pact with the Devil to serve its own immoral, illegal, disingenuous and abhorrent interests.
The UK Under David Cameron is compliant in this disgusting pact which has allowed ISIS to expand throughout the 16 months that the U.S. was apparently carrying out airstrikes and in so doing commit unspeakable atrocities.
The people of the United Kingdom must lead the way in bringing to an end these atrocious political doctrines of divine and rule. We ended slavery. Now let's end war which is the most barbaric and least intelligent way of resolving differences. It's time for a different kind of world and a new dawn.
The problem is here in the UK and we need our very best to protect ourselves from the heinous ISIS fanatics.
We can do that by putting more money on our security and intelligence, on our street policing,on our children's education paying for better resources for schools and colleges and better pay for our teachers (teachers' starting salary being £22,244/,- lowest compared to many other countries in the West), providing meaningful employment for our young graduates, affordable housing for the needy, good efficient dedicated service at our NHS hospitals and GP centres ensuring better pays and better working conditions for our junior doctors and nurses, looking after our pensioners....the list is long.
We need money here to fight the ISIS within us in our cities in the UK and not by squandering money out there bombing Syria.
We are wiser, better and therefore, stronger and more experienced than our friends in America and France....
My injured Gulf war veteran brother is emigrating to live in a hut in the woods in Canada this weekend. He can't afford to live on his tiny war pension in the UK and he can't hold down a job because of his injuries and the psychological trauma he suffered protecting you, the gullible public, from non existent chemical weapons. Killing more civilians by bombing Syria into the Stone Age will solve nothing and those that survive will want revenge. Meanwhile the rich get richer selling munitions which you pay for. Every bomb dropped is a nurses salary for a year. Every missile fired is a hospital emergency bed closed. If you want the war remember what it will cost in lost jobs and amenities. Will it make us all safer? Not a chance.
My injured Gulf war veteran brother is emigrating to live in a hut in the woods in Canada this weekend. He can't afford to live on his tiny war pension in the UK and he can't hold down a job because of his injuries and the psychological trauma he suffered protecting you, the gullible public, from non existent chemical weapons. Killing more civilians by bombing Syria into the Stone Age will solve nothing and those that survive will want revenge. Meanwhile the rich get richer selling munitions which you pay for. Every bomb dropped is a nurses salary for a year. Every missile fired is a hospital emergency bed closed. If you want the war remember what it will cost in lost jobs and amenities. Will it make us all safer? Not a chance.
Terry Rafferty......I find it insulting that you even speak the way you do.
My father served 22 years in the army, and spent a lot of time in Northern Ireland, losing most of his mates along the way. For you to come here and spout that kind of crap at all and sundry is entirely unacceptable.
There is not one ex-serviceman or woman alive who would speak to members of the public the way you have, and I have seen a lot of them - none exhibiting the same sort of brash nonsense attitude that you have expressed here.
I have to say I honestly suspect the only "old unit" you had was a TV stand you might have chucked in the skip or sold on Gumtree.
Go away, you horrid little man.
People need to go back to there christian values, and stop mass immigration from islamic countries to the western europe, look at sweden, they bankrupted.. due to the welfare system and human rights and LIBERAL laws they cannot refuse to allow immigration, this is an indirect attack on there culture. The UK is the same, as the UK is under the EU laws and human rights, they have to accept more islamic immigration, and along with them will be terrorists, yet what does the UK do? Allow more to come. this is suicidal country. Do you think China with 1.5 billion people allow muslims to go there and give them social-welfare? Of course not, so why does the UK? Yet the chinese call themselves 'communist' yet the actions are capitalist.
If the british people wanted to do stop, close the door on immigration and go back to your CHRISTIAN ancestors, so that islam cannot manipulate you. If you believe in nothing, then you are far more to be manipulated along with your own off spring. This is why the UK and much of the western countries are bankrupted, do the morality and lost there own faith, only until you find the faith then you can start to rebuild a country and your own people. But of course socialists and communists who dislike religion will never say this, because they do not want to help people they want to TAKE or destroy with a parasitic mentality.
Its more depressing to be a socialist because they believe in nothing..... look at the way a socialist dress or they way they SPEAK, the way they women look.. ugly.... compare it to russian women wow! from heaven!
Socialists always depressing attitude and have negative energy, these kind of people are called energy vampires, because they have a parasitic mentality, as they always want big STATE, big HEALTH CARE, yet the state never helps anyone..... only the people who work for the state, and they complain about MONEY, yet they never want to earn it themelves as they depend on the state.
IF we go back in time Syria was never a muslim nation, it was part of the great roman empire, Syria is the base of orthodox christians, and all of the names including Syria, are roman, they not ISLAMIC, this will happen to the UK if you keep allowing islam to flourish.
That is why today the Rome have moved to Moscow being the third roman empire, and the russians have done more in syria than what the US or NATO countries have done for a year.
The people whom were supplying the arms to the rebels (which are sunni) is SA, which is a sunni country, Assad (whom is syia) is backed by Russia and Iran (Iran is shia), this is for a war on religion... whatever people tell you it is for oil or gas, this is BS, read history of syria. Even turkia was part of the romen east empire, and there capital city was constantinople.
The depressing right-wing nutjob comments on here just prove why war will never end and why more terrorists will keep coming. The allies - with the UK - literally wasted trillions on bombing the middle east - supported by empty-headed and media-manipulated Brits, and all it did was create greater instability and a huge surge in terrorism there and across the world. Why do you think it will be any different? We were so confused we were supplying arms to the terrorists in Syria only a few years ago. So ridiculous to hear that military chest-beating is going to cure the problem that military chest-beating created in the first place. I hate religion too, but the growth in middle eastern terrorism is your fault.
Wow this is shocking, why are all the socialists and communists, the university lecturer and actors and people whom for work for godless state, do you know what they ALL have in common? They all DEPEND on the state, yet they never had a REAL job in there lives. They want 'peace' because they are scared, they scared to loose there state jobs and pensions and they are scared what 'may' happen to the uk. the problem is if you do nothing than you allow it to happen, the british people really do not understand the true CORE of this problem.. and yes it's big.. but sitting at home watch TV or on a smartphone or whatever does nothing. And yes this is a war on religion, and if you do not believe in islam it does not matter if you a christian or agnostic, in there thinking you are a gentile and not part of there own tribe. They will infiltrate into the UK system, they will make more PC laws and lobby the governments, and they will keep pushing, because they have 'islam' which is pushes them.. yet all these academics, whom never had a real job in there lives are scared, as they are critical of christian values, yet they scared of islam. when I was in university it was a breeding ground for islam and also for 'atheists' to attack christian beliefs, yet they never attack islam.. I wonder why? Because they scared. People of the UK need to go back to there christian roots such as Russia, and then you can have a tribe which you can identity yourself with and not atheism, as that is nothing and people who do not believe are more easily to be manipulated and deceived, good luck!
THE HUBRIS OF THE TORIES & THE COST OF WAR! Be in no doubt folks Da'esh are a serious problem in the very complex civil war in Syria. With over 110 militia groups, Syrian Turkmen factions, warlords & tribes that make up the “free Syrian army” fighting both Assad’s regime with Hezbollah and Iran & Da’esh who are also fighting the Iraq Army and the Kurdish provincial Forces but unless you put boots on the ground to re take and hold the ground bombing is a waste of time and (our) tax payers money. These Tories want to get rich via the Military Industrial complex via (us) the UK tax payer. I would much prefer they increased the Police, Security Services and Special Forces for an internal threat from home grown terrorists or Jahadi’s than bombing Syrian rubble that is being bombed by the Americans, French Russians & 9 other nations e.g. everyone else.
I would rather see my UK tax £ spent on MI5 & 6, GCHQ, SAS, UK Special forces Group, more Intelligence officers for with boots on the ground in the UK equipped to the 9's. Same powers as the Iranian embassy being very robust thus saving court time. Rather Than improving Tory MP & donors share price and lining their pockets with (our) tax payers money via the Military Industrial complex for Mark 84 or BLU-117 JDam bombs £30,000, Paveway IV £40,000, Brimstone guided missiles at £175,000 & Storm Shadow £800,000 a pop. Let’s be brutally honest that is why Cameron & the Tories want to join the Bombing campaign! Official figures show that the eight-month military intervention unleashed by David Cameron in support of rebels fighting Colonel Gadaffi’s regime cost £320 million. But efforts to stabilise the country following Gaddafi’s death and the collapse of his government have amounted to just £25m, which has failed to prevent Libya from sliding into chaos as feuding militias battle for control. Bombing Libya cost the UK tax payer £320 million pounds and the Libyan militia groups are still fighting among themselves. All these attacks since and including 9/11 have been home grown Terrorists or Jihadi’s. Our intelligence, police and Special Forces have stopped 7 alleged attacks within the UK. That is where the threat is. Bombing Syria is just going to act as recruiting Sgt for Da’esh!
Terry Rafferty, this is not a contest to see who can piss up a wall the highest. Do you know where these few thousand ISIS whoppers are? No and neither do the airforce. Killing innocent people is fine if a dickhead like you does it but you're up in arms if they do it. You're a whopper, go and watch Rambo and dream of what you could have been.
If they do attack whi h I hope they don't will they make plans for when.the war is over and not.leave chaos ss we.have.in.Iraq Afghanistan and.Libya
To Julie. Thanks. Respect to your dad. This lot would'nt know a Regimental Motto if they tripped over one. They're more interested in their Nut Cutlets and hugging trees. Thank God for the British Army.
Interesting that people insist on trying to bring this round to whether we'd make it in the forces or not (I didn't get the chance, didn't pass the medical) or whether we support them. Most of us respect the forces, what they're doing and what they've done to protect us, what we don't agree with is the gov't using UK forces to protect oil revenues and profits.
Bullets and bombs haven't stopped radicalism over the last 20 years, quite the opposite in fact and too many UK lives have been spent in making this situation worse.
What makes people think that bombing Syria will stop ISIS? You don't chop someone's leg off to cure a virus. Air strikes is where it starts and funeral cortèges is where it ends.
Stop supporting politicians who want to send UK forces in to make a political statement. Make them go and pick up guns if they think fighting is such a good idea.
Terry rafferty. You are a pussy.
Honi soit qui mal y pense :-)
Actually Terry I haven't stated my opinion, I can just see you for the lying scum bag you are because no soldier would ever speak to someone the way you have. You should damn ashamed of yourself. Go back to Britain First HQ and tell them all we're not stupid. We know the way you all speak, we know you're not really servicemen, because servicemen would never be so disrespectful, we won't tolerate you tarnishing the names of our servicemen for your own agenda and we will never drag ourselves down to your pathetic level
To Julie. Thank You...UBIQUE..
What a load of Left Wing Airheads you have on here. The most dangerous thing you lot have ever done is switch the kettel on in the morning. Thank God you airhead's are in the minority in this country. Bunch of nobodys. Not one one of you would even pass the medical to get into my old Unit.
Terry Rafferty I'm with you! My father served 22yrs and carried out 3 tours of NI, I have friends who were in Iraq and The Falklands and I 100% support British troops defending my country abroad! Only an idiot would want the fight to come to the UK rather than bringing the fight to them. I'm very proud of our troops and the work they do all over the world keeping the enemy away from our country. Should have been in their long before now, but better late than never!
Terry Rafferty you dishonour your sons medal by flashing it around like some badge of justice.
I served in the Falklands, and Northern Ireland, I've seen horrors most people can't imagine, we need strategy to deal with Daesh, not just bombings, maybe if you'd see real horror you'd understand, clearly you enjoyed your service a little too much, we had a name for blokes like you, wonder if you can remember it.
Bombing has been going on in Syria and Iraq for many months with only a marginal affect on ISIL. British involvement in Syria will have no real affect other than to once again tie us to the USA's apron strings. The only way this war can be won is with land forces and apart from the Kurds there is no credible force on the ground. ISIL are using the civilian population as shields and have dug bunkers under civilian populations. Bombing ISIL means that we will be killing many more civilians men, woman and children than terrorists . Cameron's. Proxy bombing of Syria echoes the mistakes and deceit of the Blair/Bush debacle in Iraq! To resolve this terrible situation their needs to be a political agreement between the external powers and then an effective Arab land army to tackle ISIL on the ground, Even then the countries like Saudi who are providing funds and weapons to ISIL must be stopped. This might recover control on the ground but as these vile cultists expect the end of the world and seek martyrdom all it can do is disrupt their supply of arms and explosives.
In order to defeat this cult the west must not feed into the 'crusader' stereotype promoted by these jihadists but do all they can to support mainstream Muslims in preventing recruitment to ISIL. Above all there has to be a plan to rebuild government and civil society in Syria after the suppression of ISIL!
Those Jingoist contributors to previous comments simply have not learnt the lessons of Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya! Bombing alone will continue to drive the innocents out and radicalise vengeful young men and women!
And there you go again Terry proving that you're not a soldier. Soldiers don't need to exercise that they are ex servicemen to give weight to their arguments. They don't need to because its invalid it doesn't matter if you have or haven't served peoples opinions are different and that's okay!! (Until you like you obviously are) No service personal would ever be so rude to say that people who haven't been in combat have no opinion.
Any you continue to show your real form by assuming you know my age and what I've done with my life. As I said I've met many soldiers and not one of them would belittle a member of the public whilst saying they are ex servicemen. They wouldn't even dream of it they've been taught to understand that democracy is for everyone because they are intellectual people! Unlike you who's just a lying scumbag, you can have your opinions I'm sure I'll disagree with them but you're fully entitled to them but lying that your an ex seviceman is disgusting. you really should be ashamed of yourself
Terry Rafferty, it was your decision to become a state sponsored thug. Stop pretending you were doing anyone a service, you were just picking up a paycheck.
I'm sick to death of right wing knuckle draggers like terry rafferty. You are the disgrace.
Andy - If the poll is "unhackable", why would the site provide guidelines on how to prevent it being "abused"?
http://blog.polldaddy.com/2012/10/11/new-feature-poll-restrictions-take-control-of-your-polls/
Jackie....I served on active service in Northern Ireland many times before you were probably born. Unlike you. Both myself and my son have put our lives on the line for nobodys like you to go spouting off about things you know absolutely nothing about. You're obviously one of the Left Wing Airheads. As far as I'm concerned unless you've seen active service you have'nt got an opinion. Keep voting for Corbyn. The man's a traitor to this country. Do you know what a Military Cross is..?? Obviously not....!!!!
Corbyn argument is that:
1. "the PM did not set out a coherent strategy, coordinated through the UN for the defeat of ISIS. Nor has he been able to explain what a credible and acceptable ground forces could retake and hold territory freed from ISIS control by an intensified air campaign."
2. "In my view, the PM has been unable to explain the contribution of additional UK bombing to a comprehensive negotiated political settlement of the Syrian civil war, or its likely impact on the threat of terrorist attacks in the UK."
and that:
"For these, and other reasons, I do not believe the PM's current proposal for air strikes in Syria will protect our security and therefore cannot support it."
There is no 'compelling case' for bombing Daesh in Syria. Or if there is then Cameron has not presented it regardless of what Hillary Benn claims.
The decision to bomb Daesh in Syria is a decision to violate the sovereignty of another nation in alliance with forces (the US, Saudi Arabia, France and Turkey) that have previously supported Daesh or its precursors in their attempt to violently overthrow the government of that nation. The Labour Party has taken this country to war of false and confused pretexts before. As a backbencher Corbyn took a principled stance by defying the whip and voting against war in 2003. As leader the same principles must oblige him to apply the whip in opposing equally false and confused pretexts for bombing in Syria.
People are saying this is inaccurate but I recognise the software (I've been a web developer for years) and it doesn't add another voted if you've already voted.
Terry Rafferty. I have met many soldiers both serving and ex, not one of them would speak the way you have spoken. They are honest, genuine and intellectual beings with a thought process far higher than "Oi you lefteyes!!" Now I can only assume you've come from the depths of Britain First, which by the way no soldier ex or serving supports or least so I'm told by Who ate all the pies Steve, so why don't you go crawl back under your rock. You lying little scum bag and try to gain some genuine respect for or soldiers
I'm ex Army. My son is a serving member of the Army with tours of Iraq and Afghanistan. He is also a Military Cross holder. I'm sick to death of listening to the hand wringing Left Wing Brigade. Of course we should bomb IS. Completely obliterate these butchers. With a mass bombing campagn IS would be wiped out in a matter of weeks. Start backing your country all you Lefties. You're a disgrace..!!!
jeff - google "uk polls syria air strikes" - there are lots of them.
70,000 moderate rebels? Really? That's Cameron's '45 minute' claim. Absolute twaddle. If there were 70k fighters ready to take up arms against ISIS, then there wouldn't be an ISIS.
in response... I wasn't doing it to influence the result - otherwise why stop at five, and why advertise it?
I voted 5 times to demonstrate it can be done, and explained how - as I said, to show it is invalid.
I only heard about the poll because I am discussing it on Facebook, and it was given as "proof" the public are opposed to air strikes.
All the poll proves is approximately 9 out of 10 clicks are for "No", it says nothing about how the public actually think.
simon youve voted five times and you still cant get the vote above a sad amount,you sure your namesnot dave
What the British going to change by bombing a fluid group do dont really have any fixed assets and are already being bombed by world's best air powers ? except to feel good and killed some innocent civilians in the process ? Actually, if we instead bomb one person out Asad, right then we probably stop the war at-least 50% and that would be a major contributor to attract local ground forces who are fighting Asad to fight ISIS which is the missing part of the puzzle, THE BOOTS not the planes. This is as simple as that and common sense, talk to Syrian refugees they will guide you to the right targets, these people know the ground realities. I dont know who the hell calling the shots in western capitals, seems all of them under Vodka influence of Putins propaganda factories.
Has there been a single poll supporting air strikes? I've not seen one.
With respect, Simon, some of us, in fact I'd be so bold as to say almost all of us, have better things to do with our time
no its the will of the people who dont want to inflict any more misery on the syrian people ,an hand bilions to the arms industry who are backers of the tory party,the only thing missing from cams speach was the now imfamous ,45mins
ITV.. this vote is invalid - a quick work-around has allowed me to vote 5 times so far... all you need to do is hide your IP address, and you get to revote...
All this poll indicates is who has the most time to refresh and click a poll... not what the public think about anything.
Can you say how many people have voted, and block multiple voters?
Yes but both the Yes and the No votes can cast multiple votes therefore it is fair and balanced!
This vote is inaccurate anyone can vote multiple times